Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:18:19 -0600 From: Tom Brusehaver Subject: Re: COZY: Epolite 9935 substitute >> I have more Problems with fumes from the heaters in the shop >> than I do with the Epoxy. > >to each his own. personally, i like the smell of kerosene... :) I like the smell of kerosene too, but I have one of those stick on CO detectors, and it'll turn black in about an hour of working in the garage. Maybe there is something wrong with my heater? Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:05:45 -0500 From: Bulent Aliev Subject: COZY: Kerosene heaters bryan.wilkinson wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Fergus Kyle > Cheers to all, and particularly Steve G: > > Kerosene...... A local Recreational Aircraft Assn. (RAA) > homebuilder did his stuff in his barn within which he installed > insulation materials and kerosene heaters. His project called for > several layers of epoxy/glassfibre and were well and truly applied per > design specs. > > Several years later, turning final in the circuit at Hamilton > Intl., the aircraft was seen to dive to the surface, all hands lost. The > Board of Enquiry determined that serious delamination had occurred in > the lifting surfaces which led to a fatal loss of control. This was > incurred by the use of kerosene heat appliances. Apparently these often > deviate from correct settings and a fine mist of unburnt kerosene is > wafted throughout. An anethema to proper curing of epoxy, the undetected > kerosene sealed the fate of the aircraft years before its first flight. > > Anyway, that's our local experoence with the stuff. Caveat ember. > > Happy Landings, > Ferg Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 13:16:05 -0700 Subject: COZY: Propane Heaters From: "Thomas Kennedy" Dear Group, Some talk recently about kerosene heaters. I use a propane heater and have had very good results with it. It puts out a lot of heat, 35,000 BTU. Hooks up to a 5 gal propane BBQ tank. 5 gal. of propane lasts a long time. Warms my garage up nicely. As far as I can tell 'ZERO' emissions. Got this from Grainger $135. Home Depot has them seasonally. The electric space heaters are something like 1,500 BTU and I found them not very effective. P.S. The Hair dryer idea works great. Just finished bottom spar. Thomas Kennedy Hopefully HTML is off. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Propane Heaters Was wrote Can't see carbon monoxide, lack of oxygen leaves good feeling -- CAREFUL!!! and I haven't addressed issues of epoxy or flammable fumes from solvents, etc. THe only safe way is properly vented. Most of these portable heaters oil or propane are intended for very well ventilated areas - Outside, open sheds, and very poorly sealed industrial type buildings. All equipment should be UL or equivalent rated and tagged, and then used per the attached instructions. My garage has a 35,000 BTU/hr. thru the wall vent minature natural gas furnace. The combustion is sealed to the garage, combustion air comes from outside, and exhaust is to outside. From: ZeroGCorp1@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:44:39 EDT Subject: COZY: Jig Table Hello All, I am a new builder and have only been reading the list for a few days. I searched the archives for info on building the Jig table and found a lot of reference to sagging over time. Is most of this sagging across the width of the table or end to end? I have the main box built with 1" x 10" x 12,' with a 2 x 6 in the middle supporting the joint of the 5/8" particle board on top. I have at the moment two 2 x 6 legs at each end and will add some in the center. The bottom contains a single 4 x 8 sheet of 1/2 particle board for torsional stability. Should I add more horizontal cross members? Should I add two sets of legs in the middle? Since this is a well discussed topic, You can e-mail me directly to not waste bandwidth. Ray Cronise Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:24:45 -0400 From: bil kleb Subject: Re: COZY: Jig Table ZeroGCorp1@aol.com wrote: > > I have the main box built with 1" x 10" x 12,' with a 2 x 6 in the middle > supporting the joint of the 5/8" particle board on top. i have similar, except i have two cross members (besides the ends): one at the particle board joint and another in the middle of the full particle board sheet. after the first six months, the particle board sagged anywhere it wasn't supported. lesson: i would have put several more cross members to prevent this sagging. maybe just some 1x6's or 1x4's. if i had really wanted to put off building the actual a/c even longer, i might have also added a length-wise support down the center. ;) all in all, the sagging really hasn't effected me as long as i remmber it's there and account for it (i.e., work near one of the edges). > Should I add more horizontal cross members? my answer would be yes. > Should I add two sets of legs in the middle? i haven't find that necessary. i just have my giant hollow door sitting on saw horses so that it is easy to swap out horses (or eliminate them entirely for fuselage assembly) to get convenient working heights as i see fit. > Since this is a well discussed topic, You can e-mail me directly to > not waste bandwidth. but like you said, this specific bit wasn't covered in the archives, so i don't see it as a waste of bandwidth... -- bil From: alwick@juno.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:50:40 -0700 Subject: Re: COZY: Jig Table On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:44:39 EDT ZeroGCorp1@aol.com writes: > >Should I add more horizontal cross members? >Should I add two sets of legs in the middle? >Ray Cronise It's those cross members directly under the table top that makes a difference. I started out with "perfect" table, but fortunately I would re-check the table flatness before starting each component. After a while, I had areas of table I had to avoid due to sag. Later, I dismantled and added cross members. I placed capscrew on bottom of legs so I could adjust level of table. Worked well. It's pretty neat when you can finally cut the table in half and use it for storage purposes only. Only then did I add the extra legs in middle. -al wick Canopy Latch System guy. Artificial intelligence in Cockpit Cozy sn 389 driven by stock Subaru 2.5 ltr.92% complete. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:56:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Jig Table Yes add the middle legs, make them adjustable. Level best you can, plane and sand the 1x12's tops to make dead level and flat, install duplex electrical outlets, 2 each side and one each end, then use drywall screws to anchor top. I had 2 cross wise stiffner 1x12. Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:36:49 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Jig Table From: "Paul Comte" >> >>Should I add more horizontal cross members? >>Should I add two sets of legs in the middle? >>Ray Cronise My bench is about 8 months old. I checked last weekend and it is still DNO flat. I used two 3/4" particle board counter top cores 12' x 4'. One I ripped into three main beams 1' x 12'. The remaining scrap was used for "bulkheads" ;-) I used scrap 3/8" plywood 6" wide to stiffen those long beams. They run down one side of each beam, for their entire length and are glued & screwed. I did this because I couldn't find 4'x12' sheets of plywood and I had the scrap 3/8 stuff. At three stations I notched the beams, ran the 2"x6"s across and screwed them into those bulkheads. The largest unsupported area is 17" x 46" and still flat. I dug up 6 pipe flanges, 6 pieces of pipe (2"?) and six pipe caps. I welded six nuts onto the caps and through drilled and tapped the cap itself. I screwed the flanges onto the 2"x6"s centered under the outside beams. Carriage bolts and a locking nuts provide adjustable but strong feet. I bored six shallow holes in my shop floor to keep the table from moving around. I intended to lay beads of silicone on top of the beams, cover with plastic and install the top but found it was so flat this was not necessary. I have a few finishing nails to pin it down. I think I could have gotten away with just four legs if I had laminated the 3/8" plywood on both sides of my long beams. As it is the frame would not bow when supported at its center and frankly, it is an extra pain to level the table with six legs. I built it this way so I could have an area big enough to work on more than one project without clearing the bench. Also, I wanted to be able to move the bloody thing with just one helper. Good thing too, I need to move the project again... |-( Your milage may vary... Paul Comte Milwaukee, WI From: "Fred Mooers" Subject: Re: COZY: Jig Table Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:51:08 -0700 It is the nature of particle board to sag. Torsional stability can be better achieved with plywood, but at a cost. Ways to help eliminate sagging, Seal both sides, primer, laquer, etc. Panelize with rib support, use glue and screws. The larger the span, the larger the rib support ie, 4x8 use 1x2s, 6x10 use 1x4. These are examples for guide lines only. for portablility, add wheels or plenty of strong friends Hope this can be of use. Fred Mooers From ???@??? Fri Apr 23 17:36:31 1999 Return-Path: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by acestes-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id UAA25740 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA29159 for cozy_builders-list; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:43:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29154 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:43:09 -0400 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA17557; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:33:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:33:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ely-oh4-21.ix.netcom.com(206.216.59.149) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017220; Thu Apr 22 18:31:52 1999 To: visnry@itis.com To: ZeroGCorp1@aol.com To: cozy_builders@canard.com Message-Id: <1999422193126511478@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: COZY: Jig Table X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cdenk@ix.netcom.com X-UIDL: 04b4d4427df86b8108c738b7883f24c5 I didn't seal 3/4" particle board, and after 9 years the top was flipped over 2 years ago, only because the surface was getting beat up. It is still nicely flat. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:32:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: COZY: Bench top material There was a comment of particle board sagging. Has someone mistaken OSB (Oriented strand board) in place of particle board or some other wood based product? Particle board is a binder (glue) and sawdust size particles and is quite high density (heavy weight). OSB has much longer parallel to the grain pieces, as much as an inch or 2 long that are glued together. And the thickness should be 3/4". The OSB is a realtively new product, I'm not familiar with its long term deflection characteristics, although its a structural product, it may not be sutiable for a bench top. My regular workbench (not the airplane bench) is (2) 2x12 yellow pine, 3/4" underlay grade plywood, glued and screwed to the 2 x12's and a 1/8" tempered masonite wearing surface with only light nails around the perimeter. This whole thing sets on a 2x4 frame with legs @ 4' centers. I can pound with a 5 lb. hammer if necessary without it bouncing. Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:14:19 -0400 From: bil kleb Subject: Re: COZY: Bench top material cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > There was a comment of particle board sagging. yep, that's what i have for the top of the "hollow door" workbench. it's only 5/8" thick as specified in chap 3, p2, the bottom most figure. my only deviation from was my use 1/4 luan for the bottom so that i could still move the beast around by myself (well sorta). my 5/8" partical board top is only supported in the middle section, crosswise, at the seam and in middle of the 4'x8' sheet's span. after a few months the humidity got to it and it sagged in the middle of the 4'x4' sections--to be expected i suppose. maybe your non-standard 3/4" thickness, more cross-supports, and lack of 85% humidity plus 100 degree temperatures saved the day in ohio... -- bil From: ZeroGCorp1@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:08:25 EDT Subject: COZY: Jig Table-reprise Well, I decided that I will have this table for the duration of the project and I must get in the habit of doing things "right" even if it means starting over. This is afterall this is the basis for an aircraft that I will fly my family in, so perfection is not an option. I have now incorporated all of the changes that were recommended on this list and offline. I think I have now the "Cozy Deluxe Jig table." Thanks for all the help. I will detail this step by step with photos if someone is willing to post it on a web page...I think word can save as HTML so maybe I'll just lay it out there and send that to whoever volunteers. This is the instructions for the "complete idiot" or someone like me that is a bit rusty in woodworking skills.... I will describe the basics briefly, sans photos, so this can end up in the archive... Here are the materials for an 11'x4' table: 2- 4'x8' by 3/4" plywood (used the cadilac version with birch finish-strong and level) 3- 2x6s (8') cut into six 35" legs 2- 1x10s (12') 4- handles (two each end) 6- electrical outlets (two on each side, one on each end) 4- 2.5" 5/16 hex bolts with washers and nuts (attach legs) 2- boxes of #6 1-5/8" drywall (all purpose) screws 12- leveling feet (2 for each leg...one may do just as well) Basic instructions: Snap chalk line to determine which edge of the 1x10 is "flatter," cut to 10.5' in length, being sure to square cuts on each end to the "flat edge." It is most fun to just carry a chalk line with you to Lowes (Home Depot, Builders Square, etc...) and do this on the floor. If they complain, then pull out the worse piece of wood you can find (not hard there) and let them know if they had better lumber you wouldn't have to waste your time doing this....this will guarantee all of your "in store cuts" are free as well. You can carry a carpenter's square...or just "borrow" one from the front of the store; but do, bring your own chalk line as it would be a bit tacky to borrow that too..... For the Plywood, have them cut it on the nice saw (the one where the saw moves, vertical not the wood) to 5.5 feet. Then with the 30" piece left on each sheet, have them cut four 5" pieces and this will leave a 10" piece for the end of your table. If you have to pay for the cuts, there are only 8 and the first is usually free, so that is a $3.50 well spent for really straight cuts. I wish I had one of those rigs in my shop.... for ease of transport you can have the 2x6s cut into 35" sections. You'll have 6 of them and three waste ends (can use them for other things). Another 6 cuts or $3.00 if the straight wood trick doesn't work. Transport this all to your shop..... The plywood 5" sections and 10" sections need to be cut to 40.5" in length. Be sure to square this cut from one of the edges cut in the store as these are flat (the saw was moving). Check both ends to be sure they are square with the top, if not you may have to cut some off each end to be sure it is square. The box is assembled with the 1x10s on the outside and all of the plywood supports on the inside of the 1x10s. Be sure to place all of the flat edges down toward your assemble surface and square the corners. Even if your floor is not completely flat, if you are sure each corner is joined perpendicular, and the wood edge was flat, the table will be flat. When you screw in the last corner, the other side of the table will rise up unless you have a flat floor (doubtful). I drilled pilot holes for the wood screws as the pine tends to split that close to the end. Once the two end pieces are in place, you can turn the box frame over and start putting in the 5" x 40.5" plywood horizontal supports. Be sure to use a cut, straight edge up and you can mark your first 3 supports on 16" centers starting from each end. This is handy as it will be on your tape measure if you have a carpenters measure. Drill/screw from side, make sure top edge is completely level with the 1x10s. flip the box over again. Drill bolt, the 2x6 legs in each corner (bolting to the plywood, not the 1x10). Now to put the last two legs. Find the center of the table, center the legs on each side there. I used 3 drywall screws with the 2x6 perpendicular to the 1x10. Place the last two plywood supports on each side and drill/screw in place (note, if you screw them to the 1x10s as before, you can remove the legs easily). You may need to sand down the top of the 2x6s if they stick up above the box plane anywhere. Note: I used my sagging particle board for the shelf below the table :^) That's it. 11'x4' jig table with 3" overhang all the way around, electrical sockets, handles for moving it around, and a shelf below to store stuff (like all of that foam I just got in from wicks!!) Thanks to everyone for the help. I think you could get by with a cheaper plywood than I used, but with particle board, the horizontal supports would not be ideal and I wanted to maximize the utilization of the wood. This way I have to buy a minimum amount of wood and I think that for the extra flatness I now have, I will be happy 6 months from now. All total...$151.62 with electrical, hardware...everything. Of that, realize that $80 is in that "expensive" worktable top and you could go with a cheaper plywood and save. But since this total represents only 1% of what I will spend building the plane (less engine) and the entire plane depends on this table...I think it is a justified expense. Sorry for the looooonnnnng post. I hope it helps future builders. Ray Cronise CZ-0770 From: Todd Carrico Subject: COZY: Epoxy in General Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:12:10 -0700 In setting up my CBF(Cozy Building Facility(AKA Garage)), a couple of questions have come up.. MGS doesn't have an odor, but are the "Invisible" fumes still as hazardous as the "Smelly" products? If You are in a CBF with a window unit type Air Conditioner, how much ventalation is enough? Will a simple oscilating fan be enough, or do you need some more robust method of providing fresh air? Airconditioning here in Texas is a must, but so is heating. What would the best way to Heat the CBF? Could I get a unit that does both? I promiss I won't sue for bad advice :0 tc From: Jim Hocut Subject: RE: COZY: Epoxy in General Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:19:07 -0400 > > Airconditioning here in Texas is a must, but so is heating. What > would the > best way to Heat the CBF? Could I get a unit that does both? I've got a large Sears window unit that (as is the case with most all window units) heats and cools. The upstairs of my garage is my workshop (HAF-ASS : Hocut Aircraft Factory - Assembly / Subassembly Section), and it was worth the effort to insulate it well. I have no trouble keeping the temperature where I want it, summer or winter. As for the nasty stuff in Epoxy, I'm only a chemical engineer and don't claim to be an epoxy expert. My opinion (which is worth exactly what you paid for it) is that the styrene in Safe-T / EZ - Poxy was by far the most harmful compound being released into the air. Anybody with first-hand knowledge care to educate us? Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:32:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Epoxy in General My garage and greenhouse (separate facilities) are heated here in Northern Ohio by Vanguard minature gas furnaces. They are through the wall direct vent (combustion sealed from the inside), electronic ignition, blowers for combustion air and circulating inside air, and remote mounted thermostat. Mine are natural gas, but propane is available. They look like a small air conditioning unit. They are 40,000 BTU/hr, and 85% efficiency. THey will heat my well insulated 4 car garage from 40 F to comfort in about 15 minutes. Check you heating ventilating shop or try mobile home suppliers. Since the combustion is sealed, vented outside, fumes aren't a concern, though when fumes get thick, I turn it off temporarily. From: Gunrider@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:41:43 EDT Subject: COZY: COMPRESSOR I am finally back after nearly 2 years of new baby and garage/hangar renovation! My hangar now has central air and I am ready to kick butt. Question: I need a compressor for fillling things in general; for the Cozy only is there a need for a tank or will a puny non-tank work? All my tools are electric... Hugh Farrior Puttin in the spar From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:29:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: COMPRESSOR I have a 5.0 SCFM with a tank. Its 1 HP., 110 volt. I have had it 25 years from Sears. At the time it was the largest that would operate off a standard 110 volt (20 amp) electrical outlet. It is just adequate to support a DA (orbital/rotary) sander. Actually in rotary mode its not adequate, except for short periods. The spray gun needs to be choosen acording to the compressor output. A 5 scfm spray gun is minimum size for spraying large areas. Haven't used an air grinder, rivet gun, or drill, need to review their air requirements If your electrical system will handle the load, I would recommend at least a 3 HP. around 8 SCFM. It probably will be 220 volt single phase. If it is 110 volt, a regular common residentual type outlet won't handle it. Probably will require #12 or #10 gauge wire, which allows the 30 amp or so fuse or breaker. DO NOT change the fuse or breaker without verifying the correct size wire for the size. A project that became a victim of an electrical origin fire just doesn't fly that well! The cost, size and weight difference isn't that great today. You will also need an adjustable regulator, dryer/filter, and possibly a lubricator for some air tools. Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:27:25 +0200 From: "Rego Burger" Subject: COZY: COMPRESSOR If you are NOT going to use airtools a diaphram compressor is fine for low pressure spray painting. I have used low pressure for this purpose for some time now with good results. The only draw back with low pressure is you use a bit more solvent to thin the paint for spraying viscosity. To safe-guard any polystyrene dissolving make sure your prime coat is at it's thickest possible for the L/P system. ( 70:30 paint : thinner ) If you want to be 100% safe, brush coat primer on without solvent and flat before using solvent thinned coats on polystyrene items. 2c worth. Régo Burger RSA From: Epplin John A Subject: RE: COZY: COMPRESSOR Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:59:58 -0500 I might as well throw in my .02 worth. Years ago I ran a durability test on several small compressors, Campbell-Hausfield (Sp?) and Champion accounted for most of the ones tested. These are sold by various retailers, Sears, Farm & Fleet etc. As far as size is concerned, I would recommend at least 2 HP. This will work about every tool you might use in the light plane game. The DA sander will be marginal but can be used. Unless you are in the desert a good water separator is a must. Amazing how much water comes out of these things! I would not use an oilier, just makes a mess and usually over oils things. One thing you don't want is an oil film on surfaces to be painted etc. I use inexpensive tools and do not oil them, they will last for probably one composite plane then throw them away and get new ones for the next project. Beats having paint problems with $100 a gallon paint. If you buy a single stage unit that has the pressure set to 125 psi, reduce this to about 100 psi. Single stage compressors will work almost forever at 100 psi but will fail in short order at 125 or above. The reason is that the heat generated by compression will cause the minute amount of oil that gets past the rings to burn. This carbons up the clearance volume in the compressor and makes things worse, eventually leading to failure. Have seen some fail in as little as 10 hours running time. The unit I am using has been in regular use for 25 years, running happily at 95 psi max. Oil changed once a year using premium automotive 10 W 30 oil. The particular unit was run 500 hours as part of the above mentioned test before I took it home as scrap. One ran alongside it at 125 psi did not make 50 hours. If you must have 100 + psi, get a 2 stage unit. John epplin Mk4 #467 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gunrider@aol.com [SMTP:Gunrider@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 3:42 PM > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: COMPRESSOR > > I am finally back after nearly 2 years of new baby and garage/hangar > renovation! > My hangar now has central air and I am ready to kick butt. > > Question: I need a compressor for fillling things in general; for the > Cozy > only is there a need for a tank or will a puny non-tank work? > > All my tools are electric... > Hugh Farrior > Puttin in the spar From: Muzzy Norman E Subject: COZY: Workshop Layout and Tools Required Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:57:55 -0500 Folks, I have several requests. My Father-in-law is a retired machinist, and very capable woodworker. He recently had some health problems, and has moved into an assisted living facility. Now that he has settled in, and his health has recovered some, he is getting itchy to 'build something'. The facility has indicated that they would be open to finding a room that could be set up for a small workshop where the residents could work on hobby items or craft items. First request: What items could be built in a small workshop, and what tools would be required for him to work with? Right off, I can see need for a drill press, grinder/buffer, and band saw (capable of cutting wood and thin aluminum and steel). Plus the usual assortment of hand tools, vise, etc. I could see him making the landing light assembly, backup plates for nutplates, assorted rudder brackets and things like that. Any other ideas? I think that he would enjoy making these sheet metal type parts, and this would allow me to focus on the glass and resin end of the business. I am sure that he will end up out at my place helping with the glass parts. Second Request: I am preparing my workshop for construction. My shop is 26x38. I have a finished area 12 foot by 26 foot that I plan on keeping temperature and humidity controlled for the actual glass construction. The other part of the garage is 26x26 and will be used for assembly, storage, and so forth. This area will be warm, but not kept at 80 degrees (at least during the winter). Where should I locate the glass rack and cutting table? Inside the 12x26 area, at one end? Or outside the 12x26 room to keep it away from the layup area and sanding dust? Regards- Norm Muzzy Plans #750 Tentative start date- 1 October 99 From: Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:19:36 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Workshop Layout and Tools Required >I am preparing my workshop for construction. My shop is 26x38. I have a >finished area 12 foot by 26 foot that I plan on keeping temperature and >humidity controlled for the actual glass construction. The other part of >the garage is 26x26 and will be used for assembly, storage, and so forth. >This area will be warm, but not kept at 80 degrees (at least during the >winter). Where should I locate the glass rack and cutting table? Inside >the 12x26 area, at one end? Or outside the 12x26 room to keep it away from >the layup area and sanding dust? >Regards- >Norm Muzzy>> Keep the glass way away from the sanding dust. I keep my glass inside the house. The glass must be up to room temperature before using it in a layup. I have heard that humidity moisture in the glass can add slightly to the weight of a layup. I have not verified this...something you might want to consider. The biggest thing is to keep the glass away from any contaminants like dust or grease and make sure that it (the glass), the foam, the epoxy, are all at room temperature before glassing. The plans say to keep the epoxy a couple degrees above room temp which helps. You can work around not having everything up to temp before starting for some small parts but in the long run it is worth getting everything warmed up before starting. John Fritz fritzx2@aol.com John Fritz Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:04:35 -0500 From: David de Sosa Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird I had the same situation a few years ago. With some maneuvering, it is possible to get the fuselage with wing spar attached in and out of a double car garage with single car doors. Once the strakes are attached, forget it! David de Sosa Cozy MKIV #080 Denis Thomassin wrote: > > Hi > > I am building my Cozy in a double size garage which should give me enough > space to complete the project but it hit me yesterday day I have two single > garage door instead of > one wide door. So the opening is around 9 feet wide, will it be enousg to > twist the Cozy out or I should start to mentaly prepare my wife about the > idea that we will have to put down the side wall of the house to get the > bird out ???. > > It was a big concession for her to give me "her" part of the garage and > leave her car outside for winter (in winter we have -35 up here where I > live). > > Merci !!!! > > Denis Thomassin Montreal, Canada #705 From: mister@neesnet.com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:45:16 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird Denis Thomason wrote:"So the opening is around 9 feet wide, will it be enough to twist the Cozy out or I should start to mentally prepare my wife about the idea that we will have to put down the side wall of the house to get the bird out ???." I have a 3 place COZY and I had to face the same problem. What I did was to build a couple of dollies with casters that I could put the wheels for the main gear on. With the airplane on the dollies it was quite easy to work it through the single garage door. Bob Misterka COZY III N342RM http://www.gis.net/~bmist ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. New England Electric System Companies ********************************************************************** From: RonKidd@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:06:31 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird I had the same situation with my 3 place. I was able to take it out with the spar to the corners of the opening and tilt the bird down slightly to get one out. I did this several times (every time I had to turn it over) and it required 4 large and trusted friends to manage it. If I had been unable to do this, I would have taken out the center post and refitted a large double door. Also, your wife sounds like a real jewel! Keep her happy! Ron, N417CZ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:19:18 -0700 From: "LCDR James D. Newman" Subject: COZY: Re: garage door width required to deliver the bird Hi Bob and All, > I have a 3 place COZY and I had to face the same problem. What I did was to build a couple of > dollies with casters that I could put the wheels for the main gear on. With the airplane on the > dollies it was quite easy to work it through the single garage door. Harbor Freight now sells a really nice small dolly with a dished out base for a tire. It rides on 4 heavy duty castering wheels. The dolly is good for 1000 lbs. each. They sell for $50 per set when on sale (regular price is $75 per set). Infinity's Forever, JD Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:19:29 -0400 From: Jeff Russell Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird mister@neesnet.com wrote: Snip > I have a 3 place COZY and I had to face the same problem. The 3 place and the 4 place have different size main spars. There is 2 feet more on the 4 place. The smallest opening that I found that I could get through was 10 feet. Be careful not to box your self in :-) This was a paint room that had 10 foot doors and a 12 foot room. -- Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc. E-mail: Jeff@aerocad.com 2954 Curtis King Blvd. Ft. Pierce, FL. 34946 Shop# 561-460-8020 7:00am to 3:30pm Home# 561-344-6200 Website: http://www.Aerocad.com Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:47:16 -0400 From: Gregg Perry Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird Denis, You didn't say what version of the Cozy you are building but I can tell you my experiences with a Mark IV. I started the construction in a two car garage with double doors as you describe. After the fuselage (including strakes and centersection spar) was complete, I had to move to another state. In preparation for the move, I built small platforms with casters for the landing gear so I could maneuver the plane in any direction and out the door. Forget it! It doesn't work. Fortunately, Jeff Russell was then living a few miles away and came over on the spur of the moment to supervise the move. It required several VERY strong men who tilted the fuselage so that the end of one strake was scaping (literally) the floor and the other strake was scraping the top corner of the garage door frame. Very difficult but only did some mild cosmetic damage to the fuselage (and door frame). I made sure the next house we bought had a 12 foot wide garage door so I could roll the plane in and out. Good luck... Gregg Perry Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:17:32 -0700 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird It's interesting to see all the solutions offered up for this problem. If I were in this boat, I think I would be tempted to build a temporary "center" support for the garage overhead beam, just enough off-center to get the plane out, then remove the real center support, temporarily. It sounds harder than it is, but then I have built several buildings before. -Howard Rogers --Howard Rogers 650-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu pager: 650-997-1089 New! email directly to my pager (approximately 50 word limit). Try it!: 6509971089@alphapage.airtouch.com From: "Jim White" Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:32:29 -0700 The Cozy IV should fit though a single garage door with the main spar and one strake attached. You can finish one strake top and bottom before starting the second one. I was contemplating installing the remaining strake bottom layup upside down, but luckily moved to a new house before that became necessary. Finding the right house with a double wide garage door was not easy, but I sure love it. If you decide to stay, you can minimize having to layup directly overhead by lowering the rear of the airplane by removing the landing gear and raise the nose as high as possible. To protect the top of the strakes until you figure out how to get it out, I went ahead with the strake top layups before doing the bottom. Eventually, you will have to modify/remove the center post between the garage doors or cut a hole in the wall to get the airplane out. If you tilt the airplane and work it around, you may be able to get by with removing the garage door trim pieces and only one wood support. Another option is to temporarily support the center between the garage doors while you remove the center post to the move the airplane. This is probably the best solution. Depending on your house design, you may be able to install a single double wide garage door, but this can get complicated. Not only do you gave to consider the overdoor loads but you also have to know if the foundation footings on the outer edge of the garage door is sufficient to support the full span. Materials alone for the double door option will run you at least $1000 and you are not likely to get this back when you sell the house unless the next buyer is also building a Cozy :-) Good luck. You can do a whole lot of work until you get to this decision point. Jim White From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:18:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: garage door width required to deliver the bird On 09/17/99 22:32:29 you wrote: >temporarily support the center between the garage doors while you remove the >center post to the move the airplane. This requires the services of a structural engineer to assure that the structure will not collapse or deform causing damage!! The same with replacing the door with a wider one. The door costs will be the least of the issues. A structural modification of major proprtions is required most of the time. My 16' wide door required a 16" deep 40 lbs/ft beam to support the floor above. I don't know where you live, but in Northern Ohio, the 16' wide door is preferred, and readily available in the house market. > > Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:06:16 -0400 From: kent Subject: COZY: cozys and garage doors FWIW: I can get a cozy III (on the gear) through a one-car garage door by working it back and forth slowly so that the point where the strake joins the fuselage and the opposite center spar tip can fit through the opening (wings removed, natch). I can get a cozy Mk IV without gear mounted through a one-car garage door by tilting the center-spar at a 45 deg angle, putting the nose on a low skid and maneuvering it so that the lower end of the center-spar goes out first, then the lower fuselage-strake intersection moves up against the edge of the opening which allows the upper end of the centerspar to get out. I had to weld up a dolly to lift the spar up and hold it at 45 degrees (with a chain between the two inboard wing mount bolts). You can save a little more buy leaving off one of the finsh blocks on the outboard end of the strake tank. Clear as mud? --Kent Ashton Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:14:37 -0400 From: John Subject: Re:COZY:garage door width required to deliver the bird Wow! Am I glad that this issue was brought up. I have been house-hunting lately and the garage details have become so much more of an issue than I ever thought about. I think I have settled on this big warehouse with a loading docks as my next house. OK! Maybe not really, but I got lucky enough to find a great old house that has a large garage with two old-fashioned bi-fold style garage doors that stretch to just about the whole width of the garage. The garage ended up really being the deciding factor between my final two choices. This list is awesome. While I am on the subject..... The stories from the "veteran" builders of Cozy's and and other canardians are a great inspiration on days when the the "sanding, sanding, sanding... routine gets real old. I would think that inspirational or even just cool stories of your interesting flights would be well within charter for this list. ( I hope so:)) Thanks all, John Millington Cozy MK IV chps 5, 21, moving to Whitehall, PA ( right near Mark Loy)( I guess I better get to know him!) From: "dewayne morgan" Subject: COZY: metal buildings Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:39:05 -0400 I am looking at purchasing a metal panel building. My question is what size do i really need. My choices are 12x20, 12x24 and 16x24. I will be able to go to a larger one later but what do i need initially. thanks dewayne Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:37:56 -0400 From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: Re: COZY: metal buildings dewayne morgan wrote: what size > do i really need. ----> Without knowing your budget, I'd assume you'd want to build the building only once. The back covers to the plans show the length, wingspan, and height. You can make a copy of that diagram and compare to a scaled drawing to decide what building you might need. Good luck. I'm envious! Wayne Hicks Cozy IV #678 Chapter 18 http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/2027 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:22:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: metal buildings >dewayne morgan wrote: >what size do i really need. > To do the best job of aligning wings, and building strakes to match the wings in the correct position, I had the wings on with the fuselage both right side up and upside down in my garage. That says the wingspan plus a few feet, say 30 feet inside dimensions x say 20 feet, but could get by probably at 18 feet, since its not necessary to have the engine mount or cowling at that time. But thats only area for the plane, you'll need room for benches, tools, etc. What is your climate, if gets cold, will need heat, should be direct vented, without any possiblity of flame or hot to the building air. You will be painting and using various solvents, etc. Of course plenty of light, electrical outlets, and a good exhaust fan, plus a circulating fan to move fumes toward the exhaust. I did cut a hole in a drywall partition in the basement to allow fitting the canard to the fuselage, and then finish the nose area. From: "dewayne morgan" Subject: COZY: insulated metal panel buildings Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:29:24 -0400 Builders, Earlier I had asked the smallest and recommended sizes for buildings. Thanks for all your input. After researching this, I found that insulated panel (sandwiched foam between to metal skins) buildings were very economical. For example, I purchased a 12 x 20 for 1650.00 delivered and set up on blocks (with a full wooden floor). If I had opted to build it myself, It would have cost about 750 in materials and about 20 hours to assemble. A 16 x 24 would have been around 1100.00 in materials and about 60 hours to assemble. These buildings are very easy to heat an cool as they are insulated very well. These panels are 22" x 50" and could easily be trailered if they are not available in your area. From: "Rick Maddy" Subject: COZY: Epoxy Pump Heat Box Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:17:14 -0700 I found a picture or two of an epoxy pump heat box. There was a reference to a circuit for hooking up a light bulb to a thermostat. Could someone send me this circuit diagram and the parts needed? Thanks, Rick Maddy (cozy@maddyhome.com) Cozy Mk IV #0824: Pre-build (www.maddyhome.com/cozy) From: "John Slade" Subject: Re: COZY: Epoxy Pump Heat Box Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:31:58 -0500 Rick, My box is heavily insultated and has a 40 watt bulb. No thermostat. It keeps the epoxy close to 110F whatever the weather. Your time might be better spend building bulkheads. Regards, John Slade Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:03:17 -0600 From: Michael Pollock Subject: RE: COZY: Epoxy Pump Heat Box John Slade wrote: >My box is heavily insulated and has a 40 watt bulb. No thermostat. It keeps >the epoxy close to 110F whatever the weather. My box is built the same way and a 40 watt bulb is fine for the winter, and I go to a 15 watt bulb in the summer. It gets hot here in Texas. From: Muzzy Norman E Subject: COZY: Initial Order, Resin Hot Box Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 07:45:40 -0600 The big order from Wicks has arrived, and I thought I would pass some of the info on to the group for the benefit of those not yet into construction. I ordered all of the construction materials minus wheels, tires, and brakes, seatbelts, electrical, and fuel system stuff. I ordered 5 gallons of resin and 2 gallons of hardener (Aeropoxy). With the 10% discount that is mentioned in every ad that Wicks places, it came to about $4500. The truck freight was $240. If I had picked it up at Wicks, the Illinois sales tax would have been $300. It arrived on a skid 4 foot wide and 10 foot long (With a little work, this skid could be used as the construction table. It is built of a pair of 4x4 stringers with 3/4 wood planking topped with 1/4 inch OSB. A little shimming, extend the ends a couple foot, and some masonite and it would be good to go.) 850 lbs. total if I remember correctly. 17 boxes of assorted sizes, they filled the crate footprint to about 4 foot high. Some high points of the order- Two full rolls of UNI, one full roll of BID, two full rolls of spar tape. This way the material comes with no re-rolling or cutting damage, and there is no question of how much was actually there (at least I am not going to measure it). I ordered 50 yards of the 63 inch wide peel ply. It came full width rolled up. No wrinkles, nice and flat, easy to use. Resin Hot Box- I built the hot box from building insulation 2" thick polystyrene. Outside overall- 20 inches wide, 16 inches deep, 22 inches tall. Cutting sheet- Sides 2@ 16x20, Back 1@ 16x18, Top 1@ 16x20, Bottom 1@ 16x16, Door 1@ 16x18. (The whole thing can be cut out of a 4ftx4ft sheet. The sides, bottom, and top were attached to each other with a shot of insulation in a can type expanding foam, micro would probably have been easier. The door presses into the opening in front. I put a porcelain lamp socket on the base of the sticky-stuff pump and ran the cord out though the a channel cut beneath the real wall and the bottom piece. Put some aluminum tape (the same stuff you use to support the TE on the landing strut) on the back wall to act as a heat reflector. A 15Watt bulb maintains the resin temperature at 120 degrees, with a shop temperature of 85 degrees. The local Farm/Fleet store has an indoor/outdoor/humidity thermometer that I use on the main part of the shop, I am going to get another one to put on the resin cabinet. Mount the 'outside' sensor on the resin tank near the bottom with a piece of foam wedged between the hardener tank and the sensor to hold it in place. About $20 for the readout. I will be putting pictures up on my website in a few days- http://home.forbin.com/muzzy/cozyweb I picked up the freight on Friday afternoon and stopped by the airport to watch Dennis Oehlmann fly off some of the hours on 92VT. What a beautiful plane. Regards- Norm Muzzy Bulkheads ready to glass, landing main strut 50%, longerons complete