From: "wydo van de waerdt" Subject: COZY: Pre-build, prefab parts, value for money Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:58:51 +0200 Dear builders, I would like to know what prefab parts to buy and which not. Please reply your experience with prefab parts. This is what every pre-builder wants to know, so let's do it thoroughly Use the following format, so it can be used in the archives of this mailing list. I know there has been some answer's on these type of questions by Marc Zeitlin. Please inform the Pre-builders with your experience !! Prefab: Skinned wings Manufacturer: company-X Price: $2500,- Quality: Outstanding - bad Hours saved: At least 40 hours Description: Perfect fit very good value for money. Next time I do it myself, waste of money !! Thanks in advance. Regards, Wydo van de Waerdt (NL) Cozy MkIV #????:PRE-BUILD Please delete what's written above and reply. Prefab parts, value for money ?? Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 06:19:22 -0400 From: Jeff Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Pre-build, prefab parts, value for money wydo van de waerdt wrote: > > Dear builders, > > I would like to know what prefab parts to buy and which not. > Please reply your experience with prefab parts. > > This is what every pre-builder wants to know > Please inform the Pre-builders with your experience !! Wydo, Dennis Oelmann has built both a plans built Cozy and a Cozy built by a kit sold by AeroCad. He has made many wings per plans using raw material and also built them using our quick build parts. He could hopefully give some comments on what time it saved in the building of these parts and if he would do it that way again. There are very few people on this builders form that have built more than one airplane. The ones that have might not have built using a kit or pre-fab parts as a replacement. I can tell you that it took me 4000 man hours to build my 3 place Cozy in 3 years. My dad and I then built a Velocity RG kit and had the airframe finished in 4 months working about 6 hours a day. The major difference was this airframe was built from pre-fab parts and this was airplane number 3. The first time you build a part, it is a learning curve. When you build it again you can improve your techniques. 1) I think this builders form is a great place to find the best and newest techniques out there. 2) Pre-fab parts use techniques that incorporate better time savings on how the parts goes together. This can save major time. Remember that a first time builder using pre-fab might not use all of the best techniques to use the parts. This can slow the process down. This is where training, better plans, updates on techniques changes or videos showing construction. 3) New or better building techniques can insure what the quality and conformity of the part will be. We have over 20 pre-fab parts/kits for the Cozy that are approved by Co-Z Development. These parts use the new techniques, newest materials and have saved hundreds of hours off the building of Cozy aircraft. We will soon have a full list up on the website on what we have on the video tapes that come with our parts. I feel that if most people would read the chapter in the plans on the part they are going to build, then look at the video that we use with our parts, you would see the building difference in techniques and see how the time savings comes in to play. Hopefully Dennis could breakdown what he thinks are big time savers on pre-fab kits. If anyone else has built both ways or has seen our videos, I would love to hear their experience. -- Jeff From: alwick@juno.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:50:56 -0700 Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild, what can I expect if ordering the kits ?? I bought all mine at one time (or so intentioned) from spruce. It was 11 boxes that totalled 619 lbs. That doesn't include anything but spruce parts. After unpacking it all fit into room smaller than 10'x 6'. I was quite surprised. I posted a while back, should be in archives. It's been over 4 years ago. Only 3 boxes were of any volume. 3' x 2' x2', and 4' x 6' x 2' and 4' x 4' x6'. Sorry I don't have any more details. Watch out for errors from supplier. Even after all the orders they have filled, their parts list has many many errors. Both Spruce and WIcks. Cozy plans have quite a few fastener errors too. All other aspects of plans are super. I didn't order all the parts specified. I made my own "Brock" parts. Fun and easy if you have access to lathe and mill. Hope this helps -al On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:50:33 +0200 "wydo van de waerdt" writes: > Dear builders, > > Can someone tell me if I order all kits at Aircraft Spruce at once; > What is the Weight > What is the Volume > > This stuff should be shipped to Europe, The Netherlands to be exact. > Should I think of a total sea carrier container, or just a small > part of it > ?? > > Please give me some info, I can't imagine how much space it will > take ??? > Draw for me that virtual picture and reply. > > Regards, > Wydo van de Waerdt (NL) > Cozy MkIV #????:PRE-BUILD > > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From: "Richard Goodwin" Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild, what can I expect if ordering the kits ?? Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:10:46 +0100 I am building in England. You can get most of the stuff here or in Europe. Eg the glass cloth from interglass by the 100m roll. Epoxy from MGS. Foam from Divinicel. It will work out cheaper. Give me a shout if you want addresses. Richard Goodwin Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:50:32 -0600 From: "Capital Steel Inc." Subject: COZY: Volume Wydo Volume is about 5.5 x 5 x 8 feet, except for the container for the longerons which took about 2.5 x 7 inches x 9 feet. Joe From: "Larry & Jenny Schuler" Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild: Layup confidence. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 11:49:17 -0500 >Please give me a few suggestions on useful books / video, you think are a >good investment for doing lay-ups. >I am in Europe so I can't attend a composite workshop in the USA. > Single best thing you could do for "how to", is "to do". Absolutely nothing like learning by doing. Try to find someone nearby (few hours drive is good investment) who is building a composite anything, and offer to help for a weekend (or more). If you can find two or three builders, even better. You will get several ideas and learn different things from each. On the flip side, you may get some ready assistance from them when you need help later. I was fortunate enough to attend the free Oshkosh workshops several years running and learned something different from each demonstrator/instructor and got some free hands-on time each time. I learned the most from Jeff Russell. He has a knack (patience mostly) for, and willingness to explain things and easily discusses various ideas about construction and methods, not necessarily related to his own designs. Very unselfish fellow. Thanks Jeff. Also, Check our archives for tons of good info and suggestions. Lots of different things that work well for some and not others. For me, reading and watching videos is one thing; nothing really 'sticks' until I do it myself. :-) There is no substitute for getting epoxy on your gloves... Larry From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Prebuild: Layup confidence. Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:56:15 -0500 Dear Wydo, Sorry for the delay in answering your question, but we were exhibiting our Cozy at the Copperstate regional fly-in for the past several days. On Friday night we entertained about 35 builders and guests at our house for a barbeque. The educational chapter in the construction manual was designed to provide the necessary information, background, and educational exercises for builders such as you, so that extra books, workshops, and videos would not be necessary. Perhaps thousands of Variezes, Long EZs, Defiants, and Cozys have been built with only this educational chapter as background, and with no previous experience. All you need in addition to this chapter is confidence. Builders keep telling me how they are amazed at how well things fit together when they follow the plans and instructions. Regards, Nat ---------- > From: wydo van de waerdt > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Prebuild: Layup confidence. > Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 1:03 AM > > Dear builders, > > Please give me a few suggestions on useful books / video, you think are a > good investment for doing lay-ups. > I am in Europe so I can't attend a composite workshop in the USA. > > Regards, > Wydo van de Waerdt > #???? Pre-build >