From: "james leturgey" Subject: Re: COZY: Plating Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:36:43 PST Nick: I attended a school years ago in Norfolk to learn how to plate metal. I don't remember the exact name but the it seems to me it was LDC Corp. It's might be convenient for you if you have to go the anyway for you tour of duty. I'll see if I can dig up the old info for you. They sell this system to the navy for on board use so it's a small one-at-a-time setup. Jim >From: "Ugolini, Nick J" >Reply-To: "Ugolini, Nick J" >To: "Cozy Group (E-mail)" >Subject: COZY: Plating >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:57:57 -0500 > >A question for the group: > >Does anyone know a supplier where I can get some 4130 steel tubes plated >(for rust protection)? I would prefer nickel, copper, or chrome. > >Thanks > >Nick > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Plating Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:44:05 -0600 Builders, Please be aware that there are special specifications for coating aircraft parts to avoid embrittlement. Most plating companies probably are not aware of these. Nat ---------- > From: bil kleb > To: cozy_builders mailing list > Subject: Re: COZY: Plating > Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 8:25 AM > > "Ugolini, Nick J" wrote: > > > > Does anyone know a supplier where I can get some 4130 steel tubes plated > > (for rust protection)? I would prefer nickel, copper, or chrome. > > if you already have the parts in hand, just find a local plating company > in the yellow pages. warning, they typically have a $50 setup charge or so. > > -- > bil Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:01:43 -0500 From: bil kleb Subject: Re: COZY: Plating Nat Puffer wrote: > > Please be aware that there are special specifications for coating aircraft > parts to avoid embrittlement. Most plating companies probably are not aware > of these. thank you nat, i forgot to mention that concern. all plating companies that i spoke with in my local area were well aware of the mil specs, in fact they all plate to those specifications regardless of your needs. but it is definitely something that should be asked upfront. -- bil From: Todd Carrico Subject: RE: COZY: Plating Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:21:27 -0800 Thought I would add my .02 here too. I believe in order to chrome plate, most companies copper plate first to remove surface irregularities, and then Chrome. This is for the Show quality stuff. I don't know if Copper is a good way to go. I have seen some internal engine components with Copper flash (Cam shafts), but this is mostly for heat treat masking. Touch it and it starts tarnishing before your eyes. Nickel is probably just expensive, but I would not know. Hydrogen embrittlement is taken care of with post heat/bake, at some temp, for a certain time etc. Any good plating shop should know how to handle it, but do make sure you mention it. I believe there is some document you can request that shows they have done it. A very good alternative is Powder Coating. Very hard finish, color full too. Not near as caustic and messy as plating. Probably friendlier to the environment. It is hard to find a good plater anymore. The EPA has really cracked down on them, and the few that are left, put it to ya so to speak. I am going the Powder Coat route when I get there. They shouldn't be too hard to find. (A quick search at Yahoo showed 178 hits). good luck! Todd Carrico ... avoid embrittlement. ... Nat ... > if you already have the parts in hand, just find a local plating company > in the yellow pages. warning, they typically have a $50 setup charge or so. bill kleb ... From: Jim Hocut Subject: RE: COZY: Plating Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:48:16 -0500 > > Does anyone know a supplier where I can get some 4130 steel tubes > plated > (for rust protection)? I would prefer nickel, copper, or chrome. If you're looking for rust protection the #1 choice would be Cad plating followed by chromate, #2 would be zinc plating (again w/ chromate). Either should outlast "chrome" plating (which is actually just a flash of chrome over bright nickel and usually also copper). And, as has been pointed out already, be sure to specify stress relieving to get rid of hydrogen embrittlement. Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:03:54 +1100 From: James Russell Subject: RE: COZY: Plating >Thought I would add my .02 here too. > >I believe in order to chrome plate, most companies copper plate first to >remove surface irregularities, and then Chrome. This is for the Show >quality stuff. > >I don't know if Copper is a good way to go. I have seen some internal >engine components with Copper flash (Cam shafts), but this is mostly for >heat treat masking. Touch it and it starts tarnishing before your eyes. > >Nickel is probably just expensive, but I would not know. > > > >... avoid embrittlement. ... >Nat > > >... >> if you already have the parts in hand, just find a local plating company >> in the yellow pages. warning, they typically have a $50 setup charge or >so. >bill kleb >... Hi all: We plated all of our ferrous racing car bits with electroless nickel plate - a semi-gloss finish, tough and chip-free, and it lasted much longer than chrome. You must post-plate bake to avoid hydrogen embrittlement tho... I don't remember prices - I think it was cheaper than chrome ( due to no surface prep or copper base plating? ) - but it has been awhile. Regards, James From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: COZY: Aluminum Prep Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:57:56 -0400 Hi Folks, Went to my local auto parts store which also carries paint products and asked if they had Alumiprep and Alodine. He came back with two PPG products: DX 533 Aluminum Cleaner Ingr: Phosphoric Acid, Ammonium Hydrogen Fluoride, 2-Butoxyethanol. DX 501 Aluminum Conditioner Ingr: Water, Chromic Acid, Fluoroboric Acid, Ammonium Bifluoride, Ammonium Fluoride Mfgr claims it is used to prepare AL for coating or painting. Are these the same as Alumiprep and Alodine 1201? The containers look the same and the cost was virtually identical to Wicks less the hazardous shipping costs. Any ideas? Thanks Russ Fisher From: Jim Hocut Subject: RE: COZY: Aluminum Prep Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:07:30 -0400 > DX 533 Aluminum Cleaner > Ingr: Phosphoric Acid, Ammonium Hydrogen Fluoride, 2-Butoxyethanol. > > DX 501 Aluminum Conditioner > Ingr: Water, Chromic Acid, Fluoroboric Acid, Ammonium Bifluoride, > Ammonium > Fluoride > > > Are these the same as Alumiprep and Alodine 1201? > > > > > Can't say if these are the "same" or not, but they've got the essential ingredients to etch aluminum and then to chromate it. They ought to work, I'd buy the smallest containers available and try doing a small scrap of aluminum. Also, please be very careful with these products, wear safety glasses and protective gloves when using them - they're quite nasty. Jim Hocut Cozy IV #448 From: "Ron Larock" Subject: COZY: etch Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:35:00 -0400 to etch aluminum and then to chromate it. They ought to work, I'd buy the smallest containers available and try doing a small scrap of aluminum. Also, please be very careful with these products, wear safety glasses and protective gloves when using them - they're quite nasty. I stripped a Cessna and etched the aluminum and the stuff is nasty. Besides gloves and glasses, you should wear a mask. I was working in an area that didn't have very good ventilation and I wound up having a bad chest cough for two weeks. After you etch the aluminum, put the gold on while the aluminum is still wet from rinsing with water. If you let the part dry, then there will be a little ( very little, but some) corrosion. Once the gold is on, you should paint the part within 24 hours. If you don't paint the part, it will be ok, just regold before you paint. One thing you don't want to do is etch the part and not put the gold on. Its better to not etch at all if you don't put the gold on. From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: Re: COZY: Aluminum Prep Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:42:32 -0400 > >DX 533 Aluminum Cleaner > >Ingr: Phosphoric Acid, Ammonium Hydrogen Fluoride, 2-Butoxyethanol. > > > >DX 501 Aluminum Conditioner > >Ingr: Water, Chromic Acid, Fluoroboric Acid, Ammonium Bifluoride, Ammonium > >Fluoride > >Mfgr claims it is used to prepare AL for coating or painting. > >Russ Fisher > > Hi Russ: > > No, the two items are cleaners/brighteners/etches for auto/truck paint > applications. > The Alumiprep is an acid etch to clean the metal surface before alodine. Be > sure to clean > and degrease the part w/ MEK or acetone before etching as any oil will > repel the > alodine... We have big tanks of each @ work and lightly scrub the part > surface w/ > Scotch-Brite pads while in the etch... If water beads anywhere instead of > sheeting > off, it's not clean. To avoid the HAZMAT shipping, go to any airport and > ask around > @ a maintenance shop where they get their etch and alodine locally. > > Regards, > James James, The Aluminum Cleaner DX533 bottle states the following: DX533 is a non-flammable acid aluminum cleaner, brightener and conditioner. Do not use on high copper or silicon bearing alloys. DX533 penetrates deep into the pores of the aluminum and lifts or dissolves oxidation, soils and other surface contaminants. DX533 prepares AL for welding. DX533 cleaning and conditioning chemical prepares the surface for chrome conversion coating with Aluminum Conditioner DX501 or Aluminum Confitioner DX503. Sounds like it is an acid etch. The DX501 has no description, only usage warnings, but it is a gold color. I was hoping someone could compare the ingredients listed above to their bottles of Alumiprep and Alodine to see if they were the same. Thanks for your reply. Russ Fisher From: "Tom Jacobs" Subject: Re: COZY: Aluminum Prep Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:28:40 -0500 Russ, It looks like slightly different composition: Alodine 1201 contains "Ferricynide salts, acidic chromates and fluorides". Metalprep 79 contains "Phosphoric Acid and Glycon Ethers". - --- -- Tom Jacobs tjacobs@madison.tds.net -----Original Message----- From: Russ Fisher To: cozy_builders@canard.com ... >DX 533 Aluminum Cleaner >Ingr: Phosphoric Acid, Ammonium Hydrogen Fluoride, 2-Butoxyethanol. > >DX 501 Aluminum Conditioner >Ingr: Water, Chromic Acid, Fluoroboric Acid, Ammonium Bifluoride, Ammonium >Fluoride >Mfgr claims it is used to prepare AL for coating or painting. > >Are these the same as Alumiprep and Alodine 1201? The containers look the >same and the cost was virtually identical to Wicks less the hazardous >shipping costs. Any ideas? > >Thanks > >Russ Fisher >