Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:58:11 -0400 From: Blake Mantel Subject: COZY: Lightning Oh to save some time: http://www.lightningtech.com/intro.html Blake -- CUM CATAPULTAE PROSCRIPTAE ERUNT TUM SOLI PROSCRIPTI CATAPULTAS HABEBUNT. (When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults....) Triumph Tiger Motorcycle page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/blakem/ My Email address is altered due to the prevalence of bulk Email senders. To send me mail remove the two *'s before the TIAC.NET. From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: COZY: Lightning strikes Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:49:24 -0500 Dear builders, Lightning strikes is a subject which seems to come up over and over again. We have been flying composite airplanes for 21 years now as well as following any articles in the Canard Pusher and magazines that might apply. We tend to stay well clear of any lightning activity, which you can usually see miles away. Composite sailplanes have been flying in thermals under clouds for many more years. My view is that since composite structures are insulators, the lightning would tend to go around rather than through, but still it is wise not to put this view to the test. I have never read of any crash of a composite airplane due to a lightning strike. It is possible to access the FAA accident records to see how many accidents were caused by lightning. I would guess that it is the least likely accident cause. Having a sticking fuel valve is probably 10 times or 100 times more likely. So why do people keep bringing up this subject? The rule I follow is that you have to define a problem first before worrying about a solution. Unless someone has some facts that lightning is a very serious threat to our airplanes, why talk about solutions? Regards, Nat Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:25:10 -0400 From: Blake Mantel Subject: Re: COZY: Lightning strikes Nat Puffer wrote: > Dear builders, > Lightning strikes is a subject which seems to come up over and over again. > We have been flying composite airplanes for 21 years now as well as > following any articles in the Canard Pusher and magazines that might apply. > We tend to stay well clear of any lightning activity, which you can usually > see miles away. I don't know if it is just bad luck or what. Somewhat over 10 years ago my fathers airplane (Piper Arrow 180) was destroyed by a rare tornado that hit in Windsor Locks, CT while tied down. Toasted plane one. And when we were flying back from Oshkosh we were being detoured well around a cell when a leader reached out and touched us. Blew out the wingtip wiring and toasted one radio. But the spam can survived with a new fiberglass wingtip cover, radio, and wiring. Slightly toasted plane 2. > I have never read of any > crash of a composite airplane due to a lightning strike. It is possible to > access the FAA accident records to see how many accidents were caused by > lightning. I would guess that it is the least likely accident cause. Having > a sticking fuel valve is probably 10 times or 100 times more likely. So why > do people keep bringing up this subject? Don't quite know.... Must be something to do with the current length of Burt's sideburns! ;-) But honestly, it is a VERY remote chance of being struck. Ed Rupke from Lighting Tech. said that most strikes upon aircraft are between 10,000 to 15,000 feet. An altitude that the Cozy is particularly at home at. And visibility in the Northeast is quite often lacking, so IFR is a must. And IMHO it would be a prudent to add the best lighting detection equipment you can purchase. Since any composite structures is more susceptible to electrical resistance damage than metallic. Oh just to make everyone feel better. Ed also thinks that a large enough strike to fatally damage an aircraft would also incapacitate the pilot. > The rule I follow is that you have to define a problem first before > worrying about a solution. Unless someone has some facts that lightning is > a very serious threat to our airplanes, why talk about solutions? > Regards, > Nat I know of only one composite strike on a LE, and it was survivable. But Ed stated that this was probably one of the side leaders and not the main current channel that hit it. I guess that Glasair was concerned enough. But the unfortunate fact is that it takes alot of work and makes a plane heavier and more $$$ to include this protection. As well as some major structural changes that took up some interior room in the cockpit. Not to practical to institute on a Cozy so If you are going to fly IFR avoid the whole "problem". Later, Blake -- CUM CATAPULTAE PROSCRIPTAE ERUNT TUM SOLI PROSCRIPTI CATAPULTAS HABEBUNT. (When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults....) Triumph Tiger Motorcycle page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/blakem/ My Email address is altered due to the prevalence of bulk Email senders. To send me mail remove the two *'s before the TIAC.NET. From: mikefly@juno.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:22:51 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Lightning strikes A long time ago, a fellow freight pilot told me that if I wanted to avoid being struck by lightning, to avoid the temperature range between +4 & -4 C. In 8,000 hr. of charter flying, I was struck one time. I was in a C-340 in moderate precip. The temp was +2 C. I am a believer. FIW Mike Bowden Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:54:41 -0400 From: Blake Mantel Subject: Re: COZY: Pilot at last! cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Congradulations also! Yes keep current, nibbling at an instrument rating would be good. The Cozy is a long haul aircraft and > the nature of weather is there are fronts spaced out usually less distance than a easy days flight. The ability to go IFR > certainly helps the ability to continue. BUT!! Single pilot IFR is a tough thing, SNIP Only problem with the Cozy (and almost all other composite aircraft) is that in IFR conditions one may run amok of an embedded thunderstorm. And composite aircraft don't survive lightning strikes too well. I had the good fortune to meet an engineer at Oshkosh and his company (Lightning Sys. Tech.) is just a stones throw away in Pittsfield, Mass and he was able to visit our local EAA chapter. His presentation was very um, shocking, to say the least! The best lightning avoidance equipment should be considered for any IFR composite craft. Some more info: http://www.nctn.hq.nasa.gov/innovation/Innovation15/Glasair.html Later, Blake -- CUM CATAPULTAE PROSCRIPTAE ERUNT TUM SOLI PROSCRIPTI CATAPULTAS HABEBUNT. (When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults....) Triumph Tiger Motorcycle page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/blakem/ My Email address is altered due to the prevalence of bulk Email senders. To send me mail remove the two *'s before the TIAC.NET. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Pilot at last! Was said I have a very firm rule (thats why we didn't get to the Butler Fly-in), If I can't get on top where visibility is 100 miles and be able to see a thunderstorm with very good assurance that there isn't any tstorms (even widely scattered or possibility) along the route, its NO GO! Here in tornado alley of Ohio (our county has the most for Ohio) Tstorms can pop out a relatively clear radar literally in minutes. Decent visibility under an overcast or broken layer simply doesn't count. MUST see the tops. Although lightning is an issue, extreme turbulence is more of an issue, as far as I know there have been more crashes of all types aircraft due to the turbulence than Lightening. Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:14:03 -0400 From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: COZY: Re: lightning strikes Paul Krasa wrote: > > snip > > Composite aircraft can survive lightning strikes only if the materials are > conductive. ---------> And I'll say again that as pilots, we were all taught to avoid T-storms like the plague. It won't be the lightning that'll get you first...it'll be the downburst that'll take you into the ground, or rip your wings off first. Use that cruise speed and circumnavigate. PS--> No offense to you Paul, you and I have had this discussion before and agree! flown those hours off yet??? :-) Wayne Hicks Cozy IV #678 Chapter 18 http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/2027 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:26:00 -0400 From: Paul Krasa Subject: lightning strikes was Re: COZY: Pilot at last! snip Composite aircraft can survive lightning strikes only if the materials are conductive. NASA sponsored a study conducted be Stoddard Hamilton to develop lightning protection for non conductive composite materials like fiberglass, and nomex fiber (Kevlar{tm}). The study was reported on in Sport Aviation about 5 years ago. As for our airplanes, there is no allowance for lightning protection in our fiberglass airplanes, and flying near or around thunderstorms has a significant increase in risk of sever damage if the airplane is struck by lightning. Fiberglass is an insulator, and will not conduct electricity. A direct pulse strike of lightning to our airplanes on a flight surface will probably result in a crash. The associated charge will cause the foam core to melt; the release of gas will cause the outer fiberglass skin to rupture and the skin to peal off the core. The final outcome depends on the amount of charge and where the charge enters and exits the airframe. Paul Long EZ 214LP