Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:13:07 -0500 From: John Subject: COZY: Left Hand Stick! Builders, This mailing list is the best thing going. If people considering building a home-built for the first time, knew about this support, they would choose to build a canard. This is the next best thing to having a daily meeting in person with all of the support information you will ever need. I, like I am sure a large number of mailing list members, don't really ask too many questions, but read all of the messages religiosly every day. The information has come in handy so often already and I am only on chapter 4. Anyway, the real reason that I wrote is to get some input concerning the left-hand joystick. I have flown radio-controlled aircraft for years and also use the flight simulator 98 to practice navigation. I am only a few hours toward my real pilot's license. I never gave too much thought to the stick position until tonight when I used my left hand to land the canard aircraft provided by a fellow mailing list member (Thanks Rego. It is pretty nice flying). I found that it is pretty challenging using my left hand on the stick. I don't think that the airframe would have survived a few of my Flight simulated landings. I have used my left hand on the yoke of the Piper 140 that I am taking lessons in, and I don't have any problems, but I think maybe having the entire stick on the left might be like batting "lefty" REALLY well, while having batted "Righty" all of your life. I stress "Really Well" since your life depends on controlling the plane and can't really ever use the "natural" feel of your right hand in a high-stress situation. Do most people have an easy or hard time getting used to the stick positions? I know that I will obviously get used to it and I am sure that it will eventually become second nature, but just how rocky is that road going to be? Opinions? John Austin Millington Cozy #706 Chapter 4, but having fun getting epoxy on the rug! Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:24:10 -0500 (EST) From: "George A. Graham" Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, John wrote: to get some input concerning > the left-hand joystick. One of the things that I dislike about my airplane (it started out to be an Eracer), is the right hand stick. First, the engine controls are on my left, so they are not handy for the copilot. Second, the radio and transponder are on my right, so I have to change hands or at least let go of the stick to change frequency etc.. Thirdly, I'm right handed, so I cannot copy ATC instructions. I have a good copilot most of the time, but my next airplane will have a lefthand stick. It only takes a few flights to get accustomed. George Graham RX-7 Powered EZ, N4449E ca266@freenet.buffalo.edu From: RonKidd@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:53:55 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! These A/C are so stable and easy to fly that it becomes natural in only a flight or two. I was concerned also, but it has not been an issue. Don't let the left stick be a factor in your decision, there are many more significant ones. Ron N417CZ From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:25:03 -0600 John, I get asked this question a lot, but only by people who aren't flying yet. Haven't had any complaints from people who are flying. I like to ask people who need convincing if they can steer their car with their left hand. Most people can. Don't all commercial airliners have the throttles in the middle? Regards, Nat From: Todd Carrico Subject: RE: COZY: Left Hand Stick! Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:40:45 -0800 You might want to try a force feedback stick. I'm sure you have already noticed the different feel from Computer to AC. The force feedback units might help you on the computer. As for the real thing, since your left hand already knows how to work the yoke (and I don't remember a learning curve at all with it) it should be no problem to transition to the left hand stick. I imagine by the time you get to that first flight, you will have countless hours in "The Seat" and the only thing missing would be aerodynamic feedback. I wonder if we could log those hours ;)... Todd Carrico -----Original Message----- From: John [mailto:jmillington@enter.net] ... Anyway, the real reason that I wrote is to get some input concerning the left-hand joystick. I have flown radio-controlled aircraft for years and also use the flight simulator 98 to practice navigation. I am only a few hours toward my real pilot's license ... Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:58:00 -0500 From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: RE:COZY: Left Hand Stick! You will find that with all the hanger flying that you are going to do over the next few years, your left hand will become the natural choice. I'm still building but now I have difficulty with right handed PC based flight simulators. Phillip Johnson Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:30:17 -0500 (EST) From: Stuart Siegler Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! John, There are 2 issues here: 1) transitioning from what you are flying to what you will be flying and 2) comparing a (pc) flight simulator to anything real. On the first, when I was going from a yoke to a (ceter) stick, I had the same concerns... but found (and You'll see) that its not a problem... On the second, and in my opinion, flying a (pc) simulator is nothing like flying a real aircraft (except for instrument work). Stuart From ???@??? Wed Feb 17 22:58:58 1999 Return-Path: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by acestes-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id SAA06578 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:13:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA23727 for cozy_builders-list; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:30:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23717 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:30:46 -0500 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA21583; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:21:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:21:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from ely-oh3-32.ix.netcom.com(206.216.59.96) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021546; Wed Feb 17 16:20:59 1999 To: jmillington@enter.net To: cozy_builders@canard.com Message-Id: <199921717143546334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cdenk@ix.netcom.com X-UIDL: 7dfaab2000a764e1db516ca60cabad1d I have the opposite problem, I'm left handed, and copying clearances can be a problem when in the soup, and turbulence. If I can use the Navaid tracking the GPS works well, but when on a vector, I don't have heading hold, but thinking of adding it this year. When flying a aircraft with a stick between the knees like a J-3 or PA-18, I fly with either hand. Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:10:56 -0800 From: "LCDR James D. Newman" Subject: COZY: Re: Left Hand Stick! Hi Carl and All, > Carl Denk wrote: > I have the opposite problem, I'm left handed, . . . That explains a lot ;-) . > . . . and copying clearances can be a problem . . . I used to practice writing with the opposite hand just for such occasions. I had my students practice it too. Try it, you CAN do it, particularly just to write some #'s or a short clearance. It may not be pretty, but you CAN read it and know what it says. If it's a love letter, forget it :-) . Also, many left handed people have opted to fly in the right seat of the side-by-sides just so they CAN write with their left hand. Also, many have moved to the right seat in the side-by-sides, no matter which hand they write with, because they are hard over that the stick MUST be in the right hand. I do have a few left handed customers that are going to fly their tandem aircraft (canard's and RV's) with their left hand, and put the throttle on the right side. Infinity's Forever, JD From: cozy623@juno.com Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:02:38 -0700 Subject: COZY: left hand I drive a car with the left so that I can shift and play with the radio and I fly the Piper with left so that I can throttle and play with the radio. Don't know that I would be too hip about flying anything right handed. Jeb Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:37:11 -0600 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! John, re "Anyway, the real reason that I wrote is to get some input concerning the left-hand joystick." First of all, John, it's not a joystick in a real airplane. Joysticks come with computer games. Real airplanes have "sticks". Once you learn to fly, it won't matter. In all likelihood you'll be flying a 152 or Tomahawk or someother light trainer in the beginning and in each of these you'll be using an old fashioned yoke in your left hand. (I believe all real airplanes have a "stick"...the only reason they don't is because years ago some marketing idiot decided airplanes would sell better if they had a wheel like a car....really stupid conclusion. People who can not tell an airplane from a car shouldn't be near one. Incidentally, I think all homebuilts have a "stick". Just goes to show how smart we are.) If you should be lucky enough to learn to fly in a Cub or a T-34, you'll be flying a "stick" with your right hand. All jet fighters are flown with the right hand, but all commercial jets are flown with the left hand if you are the Captain. First Officers fly from the other seat and do it with their right hand. Some guys take a day or two when switching seats to reacquaint their brain with which hand moves the throttle, but it is no big deal. I think it was originally set up like that in the old days so the Captain could swat a dumb First Officer along side the head with his right hand so as to get his attention now and then. I'd go out an get a license before I started building or at least take enough instruction to make sure you want to be a pilot. If you don't, you could end up with a very expensive canoe in your garage and it will leak on both ends. dd From: "Romulo Augusto" Subject: COZY: Left Hand Stick! Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:41:37 -0300 John, greetings. Right hand, left hand, this is really not important. If you did your fligth training in a stick equiped airplane, you must consider a upgrade when you will fly the ligth traditional planes, like Cessnas, Pipers ou Beech's, caused by, in take-off or landing procedures, for safety reasons, you must keep one hand ( the left) in the youke and another ( the rigth) in the troatle controls. Don't worry, you will learn this quicly. Just make your mind free to learn it, without fear or pre-concepts about this issue. To add something more about, I say you, today I have some difficults to fly using my rigth hand... Regads, Romulo Augusto. >----- Original Message ----- >From: John >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 5:13 AM >Subject: COZY: Left Hand Stick! > > >> ....Anyway, the real reason that I wrote is to get some input concerning >>the left-hand joystick...... > > From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:58:34 -0600 David, It is refreshing to have a professional pilot with your background answering builder questions. Regards, Nat ---------- > From: David Domeier > To: John > Cc: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 10:37 PM > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:52:11 -0500 From: John Subject: COZY: Re: Left Hand Stick! Builders/Advisors, I am already landing my Cozy N706CZ with much more success here at Queen City airport (at least in my flight simulator). As advised, supporting my left arm and simulating the configuration of the Cozy makes for a much more relaxed and also more precise grip on the stick. I guess that the real summation would be that switching to left hand attitude control is really not a big deal. As pointed out, on take-off in the Cherokee I am training in, I keep my right hand firmly planted on the throttle and my left hand does all of the yoke work. Hmmmmmm. Maybe I should just order my infinity sticks now and mount it to my flight sim stick. Thanks all, John A. Millington Cozy #706 This fiberglassing is fun and I keep dreaming of making all kinds of stuff out of it. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:22:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick! On 02/17/99 21:09:11 you wrote: > >Nat, > > re "Don't all commercial airliners have the throttles in the >middle?" > > They are. And real pilots don't care ....they get in the machine >and fly it. > >dd > > > Yes, and it very common to fly one leg one side and switch seats for the next leg. Incidently, the added required training of the commuter airline crews several years ago was to get the crews to work as a team, handling the duties that went with who was acting as what crew member at the time. Making sure that neither did what one was supposed to do. When taking or giving control of any part of the aircraft, one should make it very clear what: " I have the aircraft', or "I have the radios" or whatever. The other crewmember should (NO, MUST) say the confirmation of the transfer. Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:28:09 -0700 From: Dave Chapman Subject: COZY: Left Hand Stick and a question.... >it very common to fly one leg one side and switch seats for the next leg. This is a new one on me, we never switch seats... (I fly for an airline) Besides, we do our flying with our brains not our hands. Now on to my question to the group: I need to add the "parking puck" to the bottom of the nose and I don't want to just attach it to the space forward of the nose gear. I propose to attach it to the plate that is attached to the upper end of the nose gear strut. To allow the nose gear to extend I plan to replace the current plate (square) with one that has a curve on the front and cutting a curve forward forward of the plate that matches, thus allowing room for the "puck" to have clearance to rotate up with the gear leg as the gear is extended. _________________ / ___________ / / \ / / puck \ /________direction of flight \ \ / \ \ \___________/ \_________________ (view looking up from the ground) | nose gear pivot point | original end of plate This arrangement will keep the puck attached better (I think) and will have the added benefit of not having to attach the puck to my primed nose. As an aside, I am using the PolyFiber system (smooth prime, silver shield, and top gloss) and they are WONDERFUL, a great system that is water based! So, what does the group think? Dave Chapman Dave Chapman (Pilot@xmission.com) "This is USHGA #5742 a spiritual calling to Park City, Utah set one's soul free by flight...." http://www.xmission.com/~pilot Cozy 3 on gear, with the engine on, in other words, 80% done and 80% to go.. **************************************************************************** The box said 'Requires Windows 98, or better.' So I bought a Macintosh. **************************************************************************** From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Left Hand Stick and a question.... Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:34:53 -0600 People, Dave's question reminded me of something that happened many years ago with my Varieze. The nose gear in the Varieze did not have a very positive lock, so it was known to collapse. When that happened, the parking puck would soon depart the airplane and the airplane would slide to a stop on its nose. Well I had the brilliant idea (I thought) to install a skate board wheel in the nose a little higher than the puck. The puck would take the impact, and when it departed, the Varieze would coast on the skateboard wheel. Then I sold the Varieze to an F-16 Col. pilot. He was taking his wife for a ride, and propping the engine with the nose down and his wife in the back seat. She had turned around to watch, and bumped the throttle (yes, I had installed a throttle and stick in the back seat) wide open. When the engine started, it went to full throttle. The puck left, and the airplane accelerated across the ramp with the wife screaming and the pilot chasing after it. The nose of the Varieze snubbed a cable, and the cable almost severed the nose ahead of the canard. The pilot, who was chasing after it, stumbled and fell on the canard when the Varieze stopped suddenly, and broke the elevator and may have damaged the canard. Moral to the story: You can never tell what might happen when you change the design. Nat