Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: Stuart Siegler Subject: COZY: Epoxy Pump Failures Hi all, I have an AR100 adjustable epoxy dispenser, that is acting flakey. Occasionally, the handle will not return to the starting position -- ie, it only travels an inch or so and then "jams". When I push down on it again, it frees itself. More annoying then anything else. However, this weekend, the ratio it was dispensing was off -- quite a bit. I noticed this on my second cupfull, discarded it, and repoured by weight. I checked the cureing (scratch test) and it seems to be curing ok. Anyone else seen this? How concerned should I be? How often should one check the ratio? Anyone have the number of the guy that makes the AR100 [I seem to have lost the manual as well]. Thanks, Stuart -- Stuart Siegler siegler@charm.net Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:42:41 -0600 From: Paul Comte Subject: Re: COZY: Epoxy Pump Failures My manual, copyright 1995 says: J&B Products 8661 NW 24th Ct. Pembroke Pines, FL 33024 954-432-5196 Please let us know what the problem is and how you resolve it. Paul Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:22:49 -0800 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Epoxy Pump Failures My epoxy pump is an old, original "Sticky Stuff Dispenser", set up for Saf-T-Poxy, and I have had a problem a little similar to the one described here. I don't recall if I checked the ratio, because when I discovered the problem, it was after a period of inactivity. The thing just gets grungy and plugged up after a while, especially if you don't use it regularly. I just dismantle the drain, pump, valves, etc. and clean everything really well with acetone, and put it all back together again, and it works wonderfully. An unpleasant job, to be sure, but the results are well worth it. That would be my suggestion. Try it before contacting the company. --Howard Rogers From: Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:45:06 EST Subject: RE: COZY: Epoxy Pump Failures Howard Rogers responded to what Jack Wilhelmson wrote: >>The following is a story about epoxy pumps. It is not of much value but some >>people might consider it humorous. >I might disagree that this story has no moral. My plastic container >cracked and leaked once, too. The mess ran all over the top of a drawer >unit, and down into some of the drawers that hold all my composite tools. >What an incredible mess it was to clean up. I think the moral might be to >place the entire pump in what our ES&H department, here at the lab, >describes as a "secondary containment vessel". It is required for all >metal drum storage, etc. My pump now sits in a large plastic pan, just in >case. A pain, but worth it! >--Howard Rogers Or, you could replace the plastic containers with slightly modified cans that the epoxy is shipped in ( FREE) that has a hole added to the bottom. You don't have to worry about the plastic tubs leaking, and you get a system that is sealed since the cans have lids and all you have to do is make sure you remove the lids before any glassing session. The system is as air tight as having the cans and not using a pump and it isn't that much work to convert. I know you diehard non-pump guys would say don't buy a pump and then the pump won't leak and you're right. This post is no't meant to bring up the age-old question of "...to pump or not to pump...", but, for those of us pumpers, this is an alternative. I made a very simple web page with some pictures that show the plastic tub-to-can conversion if anyone is interested in seeing let me know. I'd post the address here now but I don't have it handy. John Fritz Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd05.mail.aol.com (v58.9) with SMTP; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:42:34 -0500 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA12904; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:36:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26147 for cozy_builders-list; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:47:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from smtpserv1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (SMTPSERV1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.16.136]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26142 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:47:24 -0500 Received: from [134.79.129.214] (HENDRIX.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.129.214]) by smtpserv1.slac.stanford.edu (PMDF V5.2-29 #34068) with SMTP id <0F8P00EQ5FU1G2@smtpserv1.slac.stanford.edu> for cozy_builders@canard.com; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:34:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:36:34 -0800 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: RE: COZY: Epoxy Pump Failures X-Sender: hrogers@popserve.slac.stanford.edu To: cozy_builders@canard.com Message-id: Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jack Wilhelmson wrote >Subject: Epoxy pumps > >The following is a story about epoxy pumps. It is not of much value but some >people might consider it humorous. I might disagree that this story has no moral. My plastic container cracked and leaked once, too. The mess ran all over the top of a drawer unit, and down into some of the drawers that hold all my composite tools. What an incredible mess it was to clean up. I think the moral might be to place the entire pump in what our ES&H department, here at the lab, describes as a "secondary containment vessel". It is required for all metal drum storage, etc. My pump now sits in a large plastic pan, just in case. A pain, but worth it! --Howard Rogers From: "Robert Cherney" Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:20:56 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Epoxy Pump Failures Oops. I was wrong. The pump fills the cylinder on the DOWN stroke. Dain brammage. Rob- Rob Cherney on 03/16/99 09:49:11 PM Please respond to Rob Cherney To: Stuart Siegler , cozy_builders@canard.com cc: (bcc: Robert Cherney/OrbMD) Subject: Re: COZY: Epoxy Pump Failures At 09:11 AM 3/16/99 -0500, Stuart Siegler wrote: > Occasionally, the handle will not return to the starting position >-- ie, it only travels an inch or so and then "jams". When I push >down on it again, it frees itself. More annoying then anything else. > > However, this weekend, the ratio it was dispensing was off >-- quite a bit. I noticed this on my second cupfull, discarded it, >and repoured by weight. I checked the cureing (scratch test) and it >seems to be curing ok. The pump refills its cylinders on the up stroke of the pump handle. My guess is that a check valve in the bottom of one of the tubs is gummed up. Reheat the epoxy resin and hardener with a hair dryer and stir the contents while doing it. Make sure both are liquid and not crystallized. Try pressing on the check valve with a stick to make sure it is free to open. If this attempt to fix the problem fails, empty the pump and clean it. Rob- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Robert Cherney Home Phone: (410)465-5598 | |Ellicott City, Maryland e-mail: cherney@home.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:51:20 EST Subject: COZY: Sealable Pump (was epoxy pump failures) For those of you that responded to my offer for the web address of my sealable pump, here it is: http://members.aol.com/fritzx2/epoxy_pump.html John Fritz Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 20:38:58 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: COZY: Electronic scales for measuring epoxy Anyone have a preference for digital scales to weigh epoxy? Ron Lee From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: Re: COZY: Electronic scales for measuring epoxy Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:09:30 -0400 Ron, Although this subject has been beaten to death (see the archives) - my opinion is to use a pump. I used a digital scale to calibrate my pump and to weigh a few sample lay-ups (50% glass and 50% resin by weight) so that I could get a feel for what an optimum lay-up should look like. Since then, the only thing I use the scales for are to measure 5 minute epoxy (I can never get the ratio right by eye). After calibrating my pump, all my test chips and leftover mixing cups scratch white (I test them all for consistency) and I don't have to fiddle around with charts or calculations for different batch sizes. The money spent will be well worth the time saved. Russ Fisher - >Anyone have a preference for digital scales to weigh epoxy? > >Ron Lee > From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 04:08:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Electronic scales for measuring epoxy On 05/04/99 20:38:58 you wrote: > >Anyone have a preference for digital scales to weigh epoxy? > >Ron Lee > > Get a ratio pump, you are going to mix a zillion batches, time is important on large layups, can make the difference between an excellent layup and setting up before getting weight down. Don't fiddle around pour a little, check weight, etc. From: "Hunter GA (Gary) at MSXSCC" Subject: RE: COZY: Electronic scales for measuring epoxy Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:21:28 -0500 check out http://www.balances.com Look up scales under $85 - check out OHAUS LS5000 You want 1 gram readability / battery power with auto shut off. The pan is removable and can be wrapped in saran wrap to protect if from resin and such. Similarly you can cover the base unit too. Gary Hunter > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Lee [SMTP:ronlee@pcisys.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 9:39 PM > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Electronic scales for measuring epoxy > > Anyone have a preference for digital scales to weigh epoxy? > > Ron Lee From: Epplin John A Subject: RE: COZY: Electronic scales for measuring epoxy Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:39:15 -0500 Ron and all I have been using an ACCULAB 300. Cost is around $150 if I remember correctly. It has .1 gram resolution and repeatability to +- .1 gram also. Can be battery powered or AC adapter. The .1 g resolution allows you to mix small quantities easy. The max of 300 grams has never been a problem, never tried to mix that much at once. The pan comes off but I just lay a napkin on it and replace that almost every day. I wrapped the entire unit in food service film, replace it about once a year. The unit looks and works as new and I am about done with glass/epoxy work. John Epplin. > > Anyone have a preference for digital scales to weigh epoxy? > > > > Ron Lee Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 16:33:34 -0500 From: Michael Link Subject: Re: COZY: Electronic scales for measuring epoxy ZeroGCorp1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/4/99 10:18:53 PM Central Daylight Time, > ronlee@pcisys.net writes: > > > Anyone have a preference for digital scales to weigh epoxy? > > Michael Link, who is a member of this list, repairs scientific insturments > for a living and he has a few good sources of both new, and refurbed units. > I'm going to buy one from him and maybe he could get a better deal if several > bought one at the same time... > > Michael? > > Ray Cronise > CZ#770 I'd be glad to! It would be priced at cost. Michael From: "Hunter GA (Gary) at MSXSCC" Subject: FW: COZY: MSG Epoxy and Pumps Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:05:45 -0500 > Will Chorley wrote: > > Having run through approx.. 2/3 of a gallon of MGS epoxy weighing it out, > I > have been thinking of converting my old pump to pump this stuff as I have > come to like working with it. I have had no bad batches with the weighing > method, but the pump is certainly much easier, less messy, and, I suspect, > more accurate for small amounts. I've noticed much correspondence on the > use of pumps with the MGS epoxy, and the major problem reported seems to > be > that of crystallization of the hardener. One correspondent changed from > the > poly containers to using the metal cans that the hardener comes in to try > to > avoid the crystallization problem, has anyone else tried this? I keep the > pump and my epoxies in a temp controlled cupboard and have been keeping > the > epoxy and hardener at 80 degrees and have had no trouble with the resin or > hardener in the can. > Thanks, as always, for any help, > > The crystallization people are experiencing from the MGS hardener is not > the same kind of crystallization you see on the resin side of the program. > The crystals you see are a byproduct of the cylcoaliphatic amine reacting > with CO2 in the air to form a carbamate, or soap. These crystals are no > longer a curing agent, nor will they dissolve back into the curing agent > or the resin. The crystals are water soluble and will wash off the > equipment with warm water. To prevent the crystals from forming, you > must exclude air from contact with the curing agent. In our industry, we > purge the headspace in all the storage vessels and shipping containers > with Nitrogen. If you do not have nitrogen available, welder's argon > will suffice. > > This is one of the reasons I do not favor epoxy pumps. The pump's > containers have large lids and surface areas that do not lend themselves > well to preserving the quality of the curing agent. This is why the > conversion to metal containers with small sealable lids works better for > some. In addition the, corrosive nature of the cycloaliphatic amine in > this curing agent is a lot more aggressive than EZ-Poxy hardener, and as > such the metallurgy and seals may not hold up as long. This can cause > leaks and/or mixing inaccuracies that can go on undetected for some time. > > My favorite is the original beam balance or a digital electronic balance. > A restaurant type syrup container works well for dispensing the resin (if > it is large enough), otherwise dispense direct from the gallon jug. For > the curing agent, I highly recommend a flexible polyethylene bottles with > a flip top spout having a relatively small opening. The flip top spout > allows you convenient close the container between usage, minimizing > exposure to CO2. Have at least two spouts, and as one gets crusty, > replace it with a fresh one and soak the crusty one in a cup of hot water. > To dispense the curing agent rapidly, squeeze the container, to stop or > slow down the flow, stop squeezing and it stops instantly. You can > become very adept and accurate with this technique in short order. I > use a reusable polyethylene cup for weighing the curing agent into . I > always pre-wet the curing agent cup before use by dispensing some curing > agent into it and dumping in back into the curing agent dispenser > container. This eliminates the clingage inaccuracies you can run into > with this type weighing system. > > Gary Hunter From: "dewayne morgan" Subject: COZY: epoxy pump vs. scales vs. ratio meter Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:50:40 -0400 I have read that the epoxy machine will save roughly 50.00 in epoxy over the entire plans. I have access to a free set of scales or build the ratio scales in the plans. My question is. Is it worth the extra to go ahead and get the 225.00 epoxy machine (or purchase a used one), borrow the scales, or build the ratio scales in the plans. like the plans say every hour preparation saves 5 later (let alone $$). thanks everyone for all the patience and help. decisions, decisions... I never knew that eating an elephant could taste so well :) dewayne morgan (still reading plans) cozy #815 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:32:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: epoxy pump vs. scales vs. ratio meter By the time you have completed the aircraft, you will have mixed a zillion (well almost) batches. More than a few layups are large where time is important to getting a proper layup as the epoxy starts to cure. The pumps do an excellent job of ensuring the correct ratio is maintained. Unusual to get a bad batch, as long as there is no air coming out of tube. I don't think cost is the issue. From: "John Slade" Subject: Re: COZY: epoxy pump vs. scales vs. ratio meter Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:01:11 -0400 Dewayne, My 2c. Get a pump. You'll thank yourself a thousand times, especially in big layups when everything is going to hell in a handbasket and you need a bit more epoxy in a hurry. John Slade From: jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:37:48 -0400 Subject: Re: COZY: epoxy pump vs. scales vs. ratio meter Scales work just fine. I've been using mine from the start, and have also done layups with other builders using their pumps. On big batches, after some practice, scales are actually a little faster than a pump. I've never had to dissasemble my squeeze bottles to clean the internal parts, and I don't have to periodically check that the ratio is correct. Jim Hocut From: Militch@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:48:04 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: epoxy pump vs. scales vs. ratio meter I often wish I had a pump to save that extra minute of can and bottle opening and pouring, but in truth my $1.00 scale made out of scap pine and balsa works well. I just finished my fourth gallon of epoxy. The MGS uses two cans of hardener for every gallon of epoxy, and I have used about eight and a quarter cans of hardener. There is a little wastage of hardener because you wet the cup out before you weigh the actual quantities, and I suspect I don't get 1.0000000 gallons of epoxy in each bottle anyway, so I think the scale has proven to be accurate enough. Regards, Peter Militch Cozy Mk IV #740 Chapter 7 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:24:07 -0700 From: "Bob Earley" Subject: COZY: epoxy pump vs. scales vs. ratio meter I was reluctant to use a scale since I got a pump with the project I bought. I filled the pump with EZpoxy II, but later decided to try MGS. Not knowing if I'd stay with it, I built a scale for the MGS. It's incredible how easy and accurate the scale is. The trick is to be able to remove the cups from the scale quickly. Use an inverted cap from a large (liquid)laundry detergent bottle. Cut it down a bit and 5m-epoxy it to the top of the beam to hold the small hardener cups. Make an open front sling to hold your larger resin cups from a wire pipe hanger (hardware/plumbing supply). I'm sticking with the scale and MGS. Bob Building a wide-body Long EZ in MA Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From: Moparofer@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 06:59:09 EST Subject: COZY: Epoxy pump I just received my epoxy pump from Wicks. The instructions say that you should check the calibration when it is new, in case its not right from the factory. I just wanted to strongly advise you to do this. Instead of 100:50 I was closer to 100:57. It does take a few minutes of your time and may waste a little epoxy but I feel it is well worth it. Please understand that this is not meant to be negative of the pump but only to caution all of us to do what the instructions suggest. So far the pump works great, a tremendous time saver for sure! Happy flying. Ofer Nadel Woodstock, Ga Mark IV # 0830