Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:51:52 -0500 Subject: COZY: Ch 5 question From: dhill36@juno.com (Dana Hill) Dear Group, Is it possible to flox the upper longerons onto the sides immediately after completing the two UNI layer layups on the inside of the sides or must I wait until the 2 UNI layup is completely cured? Thanks for any help. ___________________________________________ Dana Hill Ch 5 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:56:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Ch 5 question Dhill wrote Theoretically this would be best, but its fine to do after since the added strength of fresh epoxy to fresh epoxy as compared to cured sanded or peal plied is not an issue. BUT: Can the fiberglass strands (all in the area) be kept in the correct position (straight, etc.) while the longeron is located and clamped in intimate contact with the appropriate surfaces. The longeron must be bent and sprung into position since it is naturally straight. While bending, the ends move toward each other while there is force against the fiberglass near the ends. This probably will move the fiberglass to a not good position. Try a dry run with the glass laying in the correct location, if after clamping the longeron in the correct location, the glass location is still good, there is a chance it'll work. Worst comes to worst, wipe the epoxy off the longeron, sand when cured, straighten the glass and peal ply. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:43:08 -0500 From: bil kleb Subject: Re: COZY: Ch 5 question Dana Hill wrote: > > Is it possible to flox the upper longerons onto the sides > immediately after completing the two UNI layer layups on > the inside of the sides this is what _i_ thought the plans called for: everything in one, long layup. i think i had 4 or 5 helpers that day and managed to do both sides and flox the longerons in 4 hours or so ... http://www.geocities.com/~kleb/homebuilt/ch05/ch05_12.jpg in fact, the archives contain stories of people who elected to peel ply the upper area of the sides and install the upper longerons after the two-ply uni layups are cured because doing the whole sides-plus-longerons layup in nat's estimated 3 to 4 hours, even with a helper, wasn't even close for others... there are tales of finishing the sides around midnight, and dreading the yet-to-be-accomplished trimming, spacer installlation, and longeron floxing. cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > The longeron must be bent and sprung into position since it is > naturally straight. While bending, the ends move toward each other > while there is force against the fiberglass near the ends. This probably > will move the fiberglass to a not good position. this is not an issue for the mark iv, step one of chapter five has you laminate three pieces of 1/4" x 1" spruce to achieve the (more or less) correctly-shaped upper longerons. plus, by the time you get to this point, the epoxy is usually starting to set and disturbing the glass is not easily accomplished. -- bil Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:33:43 -0500 From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: Re: COZY: Ch 5 question Dana Hill wrote: > > Dear Group, > Is it possible to flox the upper longerons onto the sides > immediately after completing the two UNI layer layups Yes, this is a good idea and will give the best chemical bond. However, I would wait about 2-4 hours for the side layups to "tack up" first, then if you've got enough stamina left, go for it. I was going to do this exact thing, but it took me 5-6 hours to glass the sides, so I waited until the next day to flox the longerons in place. I wouldn't worry too much about keeping the fibers straight. In a dry fit, my longerons fit well to the sides, so all I did was flox and press into place, followed with clamps. And if you let the sides tack up first, bent fibers become a moot point. Wayne Hicks Cozy IV #678 Chapter 9 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:13:48 -0500 Subject: COZY: Ch 5 - Final trimming of length From: Dana Hill In trimming the sides to the required 101.75 inches it is necessary to make the cut vertical from the plane of the bench. Well I made a mistake on one of the sides at the upper longeron-- the cut was made more perpendicular to the upper longeron than to the bench. When aligning the F-22 blkhd to the two front ends of the sides, a gap appears in this one area of about 3/8". This gap is only at this port upper longeron and disappears completely in 2 inches, with the bulkhead/side mating fine the rest of the way. My guess at a solution is to micro a bit of foam onto this corner of the sidewall, let cure, re- cut correctly and then attach F-22. It is my understanding that this corner of the sidewall gets removed later anyway. Does this fix seem sufficient to allow me to get the 1st phase of fuselage assembly completed correctly? Thanks in advance for your opinon. ____________________________________ Dana Hill Ch 5/6 Cozy IV #676 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:53:24 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Hart IV" Subject: Re: COZY: Ch 5 - Final trimming of length Dana Hill wrote: > This gap is only at this port upper longeron and disappears completely in 2 > inches, with the bulkhead/side mating fine the rest of the way...It is my > understanding that this corner of the > sidewall gets removed later anyway. Dana: It does get cut away later; thus, I wouldn't waste any time trying to fix it. -- Jody Hart, New Orleans, LA Cozy Mark IV plans no. 648, N359JH (reserved) Chapter 6, see latest progress at: From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 5 - Fuselage sides Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:49:16 -0600 John, When you lay the foam in you jigs, which are curved, you lose 1/2 inch. Nat ---------- From: John Slade To: Cozy Builders Subject: COZY: Chap 5 - Fuselage sides Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 8:38 AM Hello fellow builders, I'm getting ready for the fuselage side layup. Ch 5, Page 3, Fig 5 shows the sides at 102.5 and the words to the left reiterate this as being important. Fig 7 shows the side being 83 + 19 = 102. This length is mentioned again on page 5. Would someone explain to me where the 1/2 inch went. Also, I saw something somewhere about hollowing out some foam to increase sholder width in the back seat. Cant find it in the plans now. Which foam and when is this done? Thanks, John Slade (#757) From: "John Slade" Subject: COZY: Chap 5 - rear passenger shoulder width Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:29:03 -0500 I asked ... I saw something somewhere about hollowing out some foam to increase sholder width in the back seat. Cant find it in the plans now. Which foam and when is this done? Nat replied... >If you look at where the back seat seat back is going >to be, and then visualize where the shoulders will be of someone sitting in >the back seat, you can see where you could achieve a little extra shoulder >width by hollowing out some foam. You can wait until the fuselage is done, >if you wish, sit in the airplane, hollow out the foam and then re-glass it >if you wish. That is what I did. John Slade (#757) From: jetpilot@execpc.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:09:31 -0500 Subject: COZY: Chapter 5 Hello Cozy builders, I have a couple of questions concerning Chapter 5. 1st) For the foward 5.5 inch doubler on the top Longerons, chapter 5 page 2 shows it laminated to the top longeron at 5 inches back from the front of jig FJA. Is this the correct location for it. I have printed all the archive questions on chapter 5 for the last 4 years and have studied them while flying to and from San Francisco for the last 4 days (about 20 hours of reading) and have seen alot of questions asked about it but no real answer, just everyone saying that they end up short for F28 bulkhead. Any input would be appriciated. 2nd) the rear 15.5 inch doubler, have far aft of the jig FJC does this extend so that it will pass through the firewall completely? 3rd) The electrical conduit figures H-H on page 3 of chapter 5, how far from the rear does it end and does the 14.7 inch down measurement listed in the archives work or does the 14.5 inch down measurement work correctly? Anyone who has recently completed this, any advice? Thanks for all your help. Mark Wunduke #748. Also one last question, The 3/4 inch foam that you use for spacers, is the measuements for A-A 10.5 inches, and B-B from 10.5 to 30inches shown on figure Fig. 7 page 3, chapter 5, and the C-C goes from 30 inches back to the 83 inch mark. This is a stupid question but I had to ask. I assume that it is but just wanted to verify it. Once again, thanks for the input. From: DougSheph@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:31:46 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5 Jetpilot (please give your name!) wrote: > 1st) For the foward 5.5 inch doubler on the top Longerons, chapter > 5 page 2 shows it laminated to the top longeron at 5 inches back > from the front of jig FJA. Is this the correct location for it. Yep. The upshot of all the discussion is: make sure it winds up no more than 5.5 inches back from the front of the side panel or it won't be in position to accept F-28 or the canard locating pin in later chapters. > 2nd) the rear 15.5 inch doubler, have far aft of the jig FJC does this > extend so that it will pass through the firewall completely? The firewall's 0.25" thick, plus two plies of BID, so 0.5" is more than enough. You might want to leave them a bit longer, though -- I left them an inch or so long and it's making assembly easier in the next chapter. > 3rd) The electrical conduit figures H-H on page 3 of chapter 5, how > far from the rear does it end and does the 14.7 inch down > measurement listed in the archives work or does the 14.5 inch > down measurement work correctly? Where it ends and where the ramp begins is a completely non-critical dimension. Just remember that you're going to be stuffing wires through here, so make the ramp fairly gentle. As far as vertical location, I used the 14.7" dimension and it doesn't look like it's going to interfere with anything on the firewall, although I haven't got the permanent firewall installed yet. > Also one last question, The 3/4 inch foam that you use for spacers... What you're doing here is simply making a 'platform' onto which your longerons will be mounted, transitioning it smoothly to the fuselage side. Properly locate your longerons and use them as templates, rather than following the dimensions given in the plans religiously, and you'll have a perfect fit with no gaps to fill. Doug Shepherd From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:18:15 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5 jetpilot@execpc.com wrote: >1st) For the forward 5.5 inch doubler on the top Longerons, chapter 5 >page 2 shows it laminated to the top longeron at 5 inches back from >the front of jig FJA. Is this the correct location for it. The front of the Jig FJA is approximately (it gets trimmed slightly later) where F22 will go. The doubler will eventually be cut at the face of F28 which is, 28 - 22 = 6" back from the front of your jig. This isn't exact because the bulkheads, like F22, are measured from their forward face. The 5.5" at this point in the plans is ok. Where I and a number of others got into trouble was in mounting the canard where F28 really needs to be about 1/8" or even 1/4" further aft. Just don't worry about forming the UNI around the front end of that doubler; it gets cut off anyway. >2nd) the rear 15.5 inch doubler, have far aft of the jig FJC does this >extend so that it will pass through the firewall completely? If memory serves, yes; plus a bit. It, along with the top longeron get trimmed much later. Keep these long until you actually mount the top firewall section after the spar is in. >3rd) The electrical conduit figures H-H on page 3 of chapter 5, >how far from the rear does it end and does the 14.7 inch down >measurement listed in the archives work or does the 14.5 inch >down measurement work correctly? I don't remember this issue specifically on mine. The conduit doesn't 'end'. It goes under the stringer and continues to it's opening forward of the forward landing gear bulkhead. Just make sure you make the angle where it dips under the stringer something less than 45 deg. , say 30 or even less. This angle is not important for wires, but the rudder cable passes through it an sharp bends are not good. Mine is ok, but after running the rudder cable conduit, I wish the plans had said something about this angle way back in chapter 5. >Also one last question, The 3/4 inch foam that you use for spacers, >is the measurements for A-A 10.5 inches, and B-B from 10.5 to >30inches shown on figure Fig. 7 page 3, chapter 5, and the C-C >goes from 30 inches back to the 83 inch mark. This is a stupid >question but I had to ask. I assume that it is but just wanted to >verify it. Once again, thanks for the input. Ain't no such thing as a stupid question in my book. Everyone looks at things differently, thus a question of any kind is not stupid; just has a different perspective behind it. [Remember, the Wright Brothers asked if man could fly and some less tolerant folks ridiculed them for even thinking about it.] Unfortunately, I do not have plans handy and cannot remember the details you ask about. Someone else will likely chime in. Hope this helps. Larry Schuler MK-IV Plans #500 From: "John Slade" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5 jigs Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 03:55:29 -0400 Hello Marc, >Is jig FJC supposed to be 5 inches wide not six >inches like FJA and FJE as depicted on Page 5-2. Yes. The plans are right (as usual). The intention of the differing heights (and lengths) of the jigs is to generate the proper curvature. When you nail the masonite down you'll see how these dimentions cause a dip and bend in the middle of the side, about where your seat back will go later on. Regards, John Slade Cozy Mk IV #757 (chapter 9). progress http://kgarden.com/cozy From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5 jigs Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 12:29:56 -0500 Mark, If you check the firewall drawings, M-7 and M-8, you will see that the fuselage sides are not vertical at the aft end, but the top is canted out about 1 inch further. Nat ---------- > From: jetpilot@execpc.com > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Chapter 5 jigs > Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 9:20 PM > > Hello builders, this is Mark Wunduke and I have another question > for Chapter 5. Is jig FJC supposed to be 5 inches wide not six > inches like FJA and FJE as depicted on Page 5-2. I just noticed > that when erecting the jigs on my table to mount the masonite on, > FJC was 1 inch shorter than FJE opposing them. Is this correct? I > just wanted to check before securing the foam to the Masonite. > Thanks again, Mark Wunduke. From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: COZY: Chap 5 - Lower longerons Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:38:25 -0400 Have an idea that I want to throw out to the group concerning the lower longerons. As many of you already know, Wicks stopped supplying the triangular strips called for in the matl's list and instead supplies .7 x .7 square stock, requiring us to machine it into a triangular cross section. Since my table saw is located such that I can't rip wood that long, I had planned on using my router table (which is more portable) to cut the strips. My thought was to machine the long strips, stopping about 21" or so from the aft end, thus eliminating the need to fuss with gluing on the doubler. The transition would be radiused (good from a structural standpoint), but the saw cuts needed to bend the wood would not be staggered and overlapped as with the doubler, therefore might not be as strong. I can do this either way, obviously, but was just trying to save a step and I'm not sure of the structural requirements of this piece. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Russ Fisher From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:17:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 5 - Lower longerons Was said I don't know what the designer had in mind, but with the cuts staggered, the tension member is interupted, relying on horizontal shear (take a phone book, hold the binding in one hand and clamp lightly together the loose page ends in the other and bend the book. Note the sliding action taking place, clamp the loose ends firmly and there is no sliding. This horizontal shearing is not one of wood's good characteristics. It might be, this is not a required loading issue, but without knowing the designer's criteria, and its not that difficult to do per the plans, I would do per the plans. When cramped for space, I have frequently ripped (cut parallel to the grain) half the length, turned the saw off, taken the stock out of the saw, flipped it end for end and then cut the remaining length. From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 5 - Lower longerons Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:38:46 -0400 >It might be, this is not a required loading issue, but without knowing the designer's criteria, and its not that difficult to >do per the plans, I would do per the plans. This seems to be the consensus of everyone. >When cramped for space, I have frequently ripped (cut parallel to the grain) half the length, turned the saw off, taken the >stock out of the saw, flipped it end for end and then cut the remaining length. Sounds like a good idea, except my space limitation is ahead of the blade, not after it, therefore I can't even start the cut. Will probably use my router table as planned, but just cut the entire length. Thanks for everyone's help. Russ Fisher From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 5....Doubler Placement... Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:19:12 -0400 Phillip, Everyone feel free to correct me here, as I have not yet assembled my tub, BUT, I placed mine at the plans dim of 5", keeping that in mind when I attached the longerons to the fuse sides. Remember to measure from the front of your forms when attaching the doubler, not the front of the longerons (they will hang over the forms a little). Before you start your fuse side lay-up, place the longerons on the foam, measuring the 5" back from the edge of the foam (or use the 15" dim for the rear doubler) and mark the longerons. You can then place the longerons exactly in place without having to remeasure or getting resin on your ruler. What you DON'T want is to place the front doubler too far from the front edge resulting in no mating surface for F28. Also, whatever is left hanging out in front of F28 gets cut off anyway. Hopes this helps. Russ Fisher -----Original Message----- From: Phillip To: Cozy Mailing List Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 23:41 PM Subject: COZY: Chap. 5....Doubler Placement... >I am laying up the longerons and wanted to clarify where I need to place >the fwd 5 1/2" doubler. I have read the archieves and a few of the >builders websites that make reference to the measurement of 5.9" that >should really be 6.25" for the F28 position aft of F22. My question >is....do I still place the fwd doubler at the 5" measurement as shown in >Fig. 3 on page 2 of chapter 5, or do I need to place it at 5.35"?? Thanks >folks... > >Phillip Sill, #707 >Chapter 5 > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:16:10 -0400 From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 5....Doubler Placement... Phillip wrote: > > I am laying up the longerons and wanted to clarify where I need to place > the fwd 5 1/2" doubler....do I still place the fwd doubler at the 5" measurement or 5.35"?? Install the doubler at the 5 inch mark per plans. You don't have to be that accurate anyway because in a later chapter, you end up cutting the top longeron and the sides to make room for the canard. You should still consider moving the F28 back a bit as per the FAQ's. Wayne Hicks Cozy IV #678 Chapters 13, 18 http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/2027 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:50:49 -0400 From: John Subject: COZY: Joystick "knuckle" clearance. Builders, I am working on the sides in chapter 5, using the L. Wayne Hicks method for jigs, quite successfully, and after looking at the joysticks in various pictures of others projects, I started to wonder if I really need to dish out the blue foam for knuckle clearance around the joystick. My "creative"interior design would be nicer, aesthetically without them. But would I really have problems at full deflection if I just don't dish out the PVC at all? I also noticed that several different sticks appear to be mounted at a more horizontal angle than some others. This could be one way to deal with problems caused by not dishing? I do plan on using an off-the-shelf joystick set that seem to be pretty loaded, complete with the trim hat. Any opinions on clearance experience would be appreciated. Thanks, John Millington Chap5, Chap 20, bits-and-pieces of other chapters. From: "John Slade" Subject: Re: COZY: Joystick "knuckle" clearance. Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:56:59 -0400 John, I didn't like the look of the circular "dish" either so I made mine a U shape. You can just see it in http://www.kgarden.com/cozy/cz18.jpg John Slade Cozy MkIV #757 http://kgarden.com/cozy Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:52:40 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Joystick "knuckle" clearance. John, re " Any opinions on clearance experience would be appreciated." Based upon how my airplane is rigged, I think you're either going to have to dish out the side as per the plan, or use sticks that are more bent to the inside, or move the entire console farther away from the fuselage side. Mine is per the plan, and there is little "knuckle" room to spare. dd From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:54:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Joystick "knuckle" clearance. I have the depressions, and would be hurting without them. THe stick requires a given amount of side movement, either outward or inward. From: Wayne_Blackler@ansett.com.au Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:38:31 +1000 Subject: Re: COZY: Joystick "knuckle" clearance. G'Day, I had the plans built depression in my Long EZ for the stock control system, but altered as follows after recommendations from a builder friend in the USA. It also got a writeup in the fantastic CSA newsletter. Basically my fuselage side has had all foam removed in the area bounded by the arm rest, strake cutout, depression location and front seat. I stiffened this area with three plies Carbon BID lapping into the strake area. I made this depression on both sides of the front 'pit and have a) made more room for the Infinity grips/control system, and b) for my arms (HUGE difference!). The glass/carbon area is extremely strong. I have installed a modified control system with bearings throughout designed by Larry Danner, it places the stick leaning towards the aircraft centreline at the top, and required the deeper than plans knuckle depression for it and the grips as it places the stick c/l going directly through the torque tube down the side of the aircraft - not to the side thereof. This mod, adds 1.5" elbow room - you'll like it. Regards Wayne Blackler O-360 Long EZ builder Melbourne, AUSTRALIA _____________________________________________________________________ CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify Ansett Australia immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Ansett Australia. _____________________________________________________________________ From: Todd Carrico Subject: RE: COZY: Joystick "knuckle" clearance. Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:49:57 -0700 I have seen some VEZ's, and LEZ's with a window in this area. Looked like a good idea as long as they haven't compromised the strength. Any opinions? tc Cozy #789 -----Original Message----- From: John Slade [mailto:rjslade@bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, July 11, 1999 2:57 PM To: John; Cozy Builders Mailing List Cozy Subject: Re: COZY: Joystick "knuckle" clearance. John, I didn't like the look of the circular "dish" either so I made mine a U shape. You can just see it in http://www.kgarden.com/cozy/cz18.jpg John Slade Cozy MkIV #757 http://kgarden.com/cozy Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:31:16 -0400 From: John Subject: COZY:Joystick "knuckle" clearance. Gang, Thanks for all of the input. I guess that I am going WITH the knuckle room. This list is great. "safe knuckles", John A. Millington From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: COZY: Chap 5. - Electrical duct and stringers Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:57:08 -0400 A couple of builder hints here: 1) When laying out the location of the electrical duct, measure the distance on your firewall (or firewall drawings) from the upper longerons to the elec. duct hole in the firewall. Use this dimension for the aft end of the duct. I used the 14.5" dim. shown in fig. 7 for the forward end and sloped it down to about 14.75 inches at the firewall. If you don't, the duct won't match up with the hole and will run into the pulley brackets. (This has been discussed before, just wanted to reiterate it). 2) When making the plug for the electrical duct shown in fig. 15, run it through your bandsaw and trim it down to 0.70" thick (or maybe just a hair smaller). The instructions say to sand that area down flush with the lower longeron and the stringers. The longeron and stringers are both 0.70", so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you build the duct 0.75" high, you will sand the top right off trying to make the area flat. I don't know how critical it is to have this area flat, but using the above method, mine came out perfect. 3) As I was attaching the lower longerons, I marked them with the dimension stations shown in fig. 5 (every 10") and used those measurements in placing the longerons. Both after clamping and after cure, I checked these stations and they were PERFECT (I was so proud of myself :-) ). When I was laying out the locations for the LWX and LWY stringers (which were also cut quite accurately), I was not able to get the left side to match the right side. After checking every measurement shown on the plans as well as many that weren't, everything was exactly the same...except...the distance from the upper longeron to the lower longeron at the point where LWX attaches to it. There was a difference of 0.10"!!! This area falls right between two of the above mentioned measurement stations, so of course was not checked during assembly. It boggles the mind that those stringers could flex that much differently in a space of 10", but they did. What effect did it have in my stringer placement? On one side, the upper end of LWX will JUST meet the edge of the area cut out for the spar, and on the other side, about 0.10" will be cut off when I make the spar cutout. No real damage for me, but just thought I'd warn other builders to check that dimension either while attaching the longeron or before cutting LWX so that you can compensate for any deviations. See you at Oshkosh, Russ Fisher From: Militch@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:40:07 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: LWX AND LWY Bid tape... In a message dated 8/26/99 3:21:55 AM, LUV2AV8@compuserve.com wrote: >I just realized after installing my electrical conduit cover and installing >the 3/4 in. clark foam between LWX , LWY, and lower longeron that I did not >do the 1 ply bid tape corners on LWX or LWY. I can still do the fwd side >of LWX but now that I have the foam installed...I can't do the AFT side of >LWX or the bottom side of LWY. Any suggestions on what to do before I do >the 6 plys of bid over that area. Also, should I radius the corner of LWX >before the 6 plys of bid? > Clark foam works like telepathy. Just look at it and it does what you want. If you have the foam glued in, why not just cut away enough to allow you to put the tapes in, and then glue a replacement plug back in, and carry on. It will be a bit tedious cleaning up the micro that will undoubtedly remain the lower glass when you tear the foam off, but no-one builds one of these birds unless they just love to sand things :-) Regards From: "Bill Kastenholz" Subject: Re: COZY: Upper longeron layup Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:48:44 -0400 >I have a questoin about the upper longeron 4 uni layup. I have read the >archieves, but did not see any reference to sanding the inside, bottom edge >of the longeron. Do I leave it square the entire length....or do I radius >this edge?? > >Thanks, > >Phillip Sill, #707 >Chapter 5 > Hi Phillip, I rounded mine so the glass would make the corner and stay attached. If you look at Chap.5 p.4 Fig. 11 ;you can see the rounded corner. Now, go to Chap. 3 p.11 and see the radius minimums for taking glass fibers straight around a bend or at an angle, 3/16 and 1/8 inch radii. Since you use these dimensions quite often while building, make a template from 1/8 inch pine (like an old yard stick) and drill an appropriate size hole and then cut 2 perpendicular lines to form the desired rounded corner. Happy Building, Bill Kastenholz wkasty@eriecoast.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 05:55:57 -0600 From: vance atkinson Subject: COZY: fuel sight gauges For those of you interested in view the simple fuel sight ga. You can go to : http://home.fea.net/~canc1/vafuelsites.html The picture actually came out a little dark, and in reality the the piece of acriylic plastic under the bubble is white. Vance Atkinson vaatk@flash.net From: "Rick Maddy" Subject: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 12:03:52 -0700 I am getting ready to make the masonite fuselage side jigs. I was curious how you all added the extra length of masonite. I'm trying to imagine how well the extra piece flexes with the main piece in the curved jigs. I'm still waiting for my back-ordered epoxy pump so I jumped ahead and started making all the jigs and doublers in chapter 5. Some day I'll get to actually fiberglass something. Rick Maddy (cozy@maddyhome.com) Cozy Mk IV #0824: Chapter 4 & 5 (www.maddyhome.com/cozy) From: "Rick Maddy" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:54:44 -0700 >I wrote: >I'm trying to imagine how >well the extra piece flexes with the main piece in the curved jigs. I answered my own question. Sometimes just walking away for an hour helps. Once I realized that the added piece goes on the end where the jigs are straight (not, level though) it was obvious that there isn't any problem. I just 5-minute epoxied the extension on with an overlapping piece on the underside. Rick Maddy (cozy@maddyhome.com) Cozy Mk IV #0824: Chapter 4 & 5 (www.maddyhome.com/cozy) From: "John Slade" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:32:53 -0500 >how you all added the extra length of masonite. I'm trying to imagine how >well the extra piece flexes with the main piece in the curved jigs. RIck, I followed the plans and it worked fine. No problems. No worries. John Slade (attaching winglets) From: Muzzy Norman E Subject: RE: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:21:18 -0600 <> Don't worry about it. The bends are very gentle, and the foam filters out any bumps. If anyone would like to pickup a nicely built set of longeron and fuselage side jigs, my set is available. Located in the Waterloo, Iowa area. I can't imagine storing these for myself, and they are not that tough to make should I ever build a second plane down the road. I built the fuse side jigs so they were free standing. Very convenient to be able to reach under, flip over, etc. I used sheetmetal screws to hold the foam in, drywall screws to hold the wood down, lots of lead, etc. Started mounting the bulkheads last night, the sides are in good shape with minimal fill required. All based upon other builder's websites experiences. Initial fuselage assembly is upside down on the table. Other observations- You can build these planes with a minimal amount of tools, but... I use almost every night my father-in-laws big band saw (not the cheapy Harbor Freight type that I own) for cutting edges, contour foam, etc., my 6x48 table sander for trimming up edges, sanding faces smooth, my belt sander, my Fein sander, and my sawzall. Hack and Slew. Most important tool- a decent vacuum cleaner with a long hose. Regards- Norm Muzzy Chapter 4&5 in the books, burning through 6... http://home.forbin.com/muzzy/cozyweb From: "Paul Kuntz" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:09:31 -0800 I used 1/4" masonite to get a stiffer jig. I joined the masonite jig pieces with butt joints of 5-minute epoxy to get the necessary length. I also cut the supporting jig pieces with slight curves at the transition between the center and the two ends, to get a nice curve in the masonite at that point. Worked really well. I used dabs of 5-minute epoxy to attach the foam to the masonite, but have since seen the recommendation to use 2-sided tape, which sounds like a better approach. Paul Kuntz >I am getting ready to make the masonite fuselage side jigs. I was curious >how you all added the extra length of masonite. Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:31:15 -0500 From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs Rick Maddy wrote: I was curious how you all added the extra length of masonite. -------> I used 5-minute glue and edge-glued the extra piece on. Some day I'll get to actually fiberglass something. ----> and fiberglass something, and fiberglass something, and ... Wayne Hicks http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/2027 From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:38:13 -0500 >but have since seen the recommendation to use 2-sided tape, which >sounds like a better approach. > >Paul Kuntz I used carpet tape (lots of it!) spaced about 6" apart. No problem except in the center where the curve is the tightest - it kept wanting to lift up. On the outside (bottom of fuse sides) I used small drywall screws inserted from under the masonite to hold the foam down. On the inside (top of fuse sides) I left it as is because once you clamp the upper longerons down to the masonite(which you do while you are laying up the sides), the foam stays put. Had no problem releasing the foam from the forms and have absolutely NO gouges from epoxy. Hint: mark the masonite where the joints in the foam are. Lay 2 or 3 strips of plastic box tape down all the way across the form right under the joints. Some resin will seep through the joint and can REALLY bond the foam to the forms. The tape prevents that. Probably spent an extra 30 to 60 minutes using carpet tape instead of epoxy - felt it was well worth it. Russ Fisher From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:16:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 5: fuselage side jigs When there is a foam flat surface with some epoxy with or without a filler (micro or flox) protruding above the foam surface. Sanding will take the foam surface down faster than the harder epoxy, very hard to get smooth (level) surface. Use a dremel router with a flat round disc stone set flush with the router base bottom. Can be used on both plane and single curved surfaces. Also with the stone set lower, notches and recesses can be machined easily, use a straightedge as a guide for straight lines. Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:54:47 -0700 From: "Capital Steel Inc." Subject: COZY: ch5lowerlongerons Subject: Cozy 727 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:07:27 -0700 From: "Capital Steel Inc." I can hardly believe it but I've finished the sides as far as putting on the lower triangular longerons and when checking the measurements find that at 60 inches I am about 1.5 tenths too narrow and by the 80 inch check point I'm 2.5 tenths to narrow but back to the correct dimension by 100 inches and up. I think that in clamping the upper longerons in place I somehow squeezed the sides upward. How far backward do I need to go to correct this and what is the best way? I couldn't find anything in the archives about this.From ???@??? Sat Nov 27 13:47:39 1999 Return-Path: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by acestes-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id KAA21206 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:44:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22630 for cozy_builders-list; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:09:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22622 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:09:49 -0500 From: Fritzx2@aol.com Received: from Fritzx2@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.4.) id h.0.cbafe4e7 (3970) for ; Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:10:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0.cbafe4e7.25714e4d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:10:05 EST Subject: Re: COZY: CH 5 Lower Longerons To: cozy_builders@canard.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Fritzx2@aol.com X-UIDL: 13501d8950665e40a59aa347508790e5 Mr/Mrs capitalsteel: (no signature line) > I can hardly believe it but I've finished the sides as far as putting on > the lower triangular longerons and when checking the measurements find > that at 60 inches I am about 1.5 tenths too narrow and by the 80 inch > check point I'm 2.5 tenths to narrow but back to the correct dimension > by 100 inches and up. I think that in clamping the upper longerons in > place I somehow squeezed the sides upward. How far backward do I need > to go to correct this and what is the best way? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "squeezing the sides upward"? Does this mean that your longerons are not straight because that would be more of a problem in my opinion than the height being wrong by 0.15" to 0.25" since the longerons will be used extensively thoughout the project as a reference to level the plane before attaching things like the main gear, front nose/gear, canard... and so on? If the longeron is not straight, I would correct that some way before moving on. I would not add foam to the bottom to correct the small deviation of 0.15 to 0.25" since is so small unless the left side is no the same as the right side. If you do decide to live with the height deviation, then when it comes time to install your landing gear bulkheads (LGB), do not trim off the top of the front LGB to make it fit because later on you will need that minimum distance between the 0.25 pilot hole for mounting the main gear and the top of that bulkhead to do your reinforcement layups and still have room for the 0.25" square aluminum hardpoint which barely fits in the first place; especially if you moved the main gear mounting points up per one of the NL corrections to avoid the interferance between the main gear hoop and the NACA belly scoop. Also, keep the angle of the front seat the same as the plans and trim off the bottom of the seat otherwise you will have to adjust the center keel angle. John Fritz fritzx2@aol.com From: JERSKIP@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:39:28 EST Subject: COZY: Vance Atkins Fuel Gauges Hi Guys, I'm preparing to glass the inside fuselage sides using VA sight gauges Question: It sounds to me I'm supposed to place a 2" X 7" piece of box tape vertically, beginning just below the upper longeron foam spacer,(Where the foam tapers into the fuselage side.). Is that correct? Thanks in advance, Jerry Schneider #768 From: nostromo56@home.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:57:16 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: COZY: Vance Atkins Fuel Gauges] The "tape" is is peel ply and should be about 6 inches by 10inches......saves a lot of sanding later on. vance atkinson From ???@??? Thu Dec 30 16:43:34 1999 Return-Path: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Received: from alum.mit.edu (ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.72.0.38]) by acestes-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id NAA07565 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 13:21:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA27116 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:40:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16575 for cozy_builders-list; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:22:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from mail.netic.de (mail.s.netic.de [212.9.160.11]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16568 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:22:22 -0500 Received: by mail.netic.de (Smail3.2.0.106/mail.s.netic.de) via LF.net GmbH Internet Services via remoteip 212.106.215.23 via remotehost s.netic.de with esmtp for twc2.betaweb.com id m122zBn-001WzjC; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:09:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3868E30A.7BEAB69C@s.netic.de> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:19:22 +0100 From: Rafael Bello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [es]C-C21-V2.0NSI (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cozy_builders@canard.com Subject: COZY: chapter 5, 6 plies BID layup Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Rafael Bello X-UIDL: a5139c139096e28421050768e268d2b4 Hello builders, I am finishing chapter 5, ready for the 6 plies BID layup over the landing gear area. Despite of reading the archives for chapter 5, I did not found an answer for following question: does the layup have to be only over the flat area covering the foam, LWX, LWY and the lower longeron, or does it have to contour LWX and/or LWY around down to the lower foam level? If yes, does the layup have to run over this foam too? How many inches? Bye, Rafael Bello bello@s.netic.de From: "Russ Fisher" Subject: Re: COZY: chapter 5, 6 plies BID layup Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:13:11 -0500 -----Original Message----- >I am finishing chapter 5, ready for the 6 plies BID layup over the >landing gear area. Despite of reading the archives for chapter 5, I did >not found an answer for following question: does the layup have to be >only over the flat area covering the foam, LWX, LWY and the lower >longeron Yes, that is correct - flat only. Refer to Fig. 18 and you'll see the solid area that is outlined for the layup. It extends only to the edges of the stringers and longerons. Russ Fisher