From: DougSheph@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:15:21 EST Subject: COZY: Bench seats After much consideration and a conversation with Nat, I have decided to eliminate the center console of my plane and go with bench seats in both the front and back. This will increase hip room in all situations, and the plane should be positively roomy when flying solo or for a single passenger in back. The speed brake johnson bar can be eliminated by using the electric actuator, but it's not nearly so obvious what to do about the heat duct. Rather than forego cabin heat entirely, or resorting to electric heaters or oil coolers in the nose, it seems to me the best option is to use the heat muff on the exhaust pipe as per plans, routing the hot air forward through one or both armrest(s). Can any of you guys who are farther along (started on plans set #733 a weeks ago -- five bulkheads down, two to go!) help me visualize the details of how to do this? Would it be easiest to go over or under the spar? Is there room to get around the gear struts? I'm figuring there's room under the aileron torque tube for a decent-size duct (using custom armrests, of course, with shallower map pockets) most of the way up the cabin. Is there anything preventing me from doing this? Would it be best to route the air through the same location shown on the plans, or is there someplace nearer the side that would work out? One other detail that's a little fuzzy is the center seat belt attachment. I'm thinking I'll just mount the tube on a small block of foam (elevating it so I can get wrenches on the bolt), and lay the reinforcements as per plans over the block and floor instead of on the heat duct. Any reason this won't work, or any better ideas (perhaps a stud, similarly reinforced, embedded in the floor)? I would appreciate any and all ideas on the subject. Doug Shepherd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:14:30 -0800 From: Michael Amick Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats DougSheph@aol.com wrote: > > After much consideration and a conversation with Nat, I have decided to > eliminate the center console of my plane and go with bench seats in both the > front and back. This will increase hip room in all situations, ..... > ...< multiple statements & questions deleted > Hold on, there might be OTHER options. (Let's think outside the box!) How tall are you? Have you SAT in a cozy with the electric spend brake to compare?? I helped a fellow builder by making the seat cushions for his plane. The bottom cushion was made thick enough (3" vs 2"in the plans) with firm poly foam to raise his line of sight slightly for best visiblity over the nose. He is 5' 11" (& moderatly wide)& has the electric brake. The net result is a completely flat area across the front seat. This center keel adds tremendious stiffness & strength to the AC bottom. Elemental engineering will show that to reinforce the bottom to the same level of stiffness would increase the overall weight. If your personal weight & balance is the issue, do you want to have LESS strength in the bottom?? Besides this, SHOULDER room is the biggest problem in the COZY (the Mark IV has 4" more than the III). BEFORE you change everything go sit & maybe taxi (better to FLY obviously) in a cozy IV with the electric brake with someone close to the size of your spouse/partner who you will spend the most time in the airplane with. Because of your need to move you arms to tune radios, trim the AC, work the controls, etc, the shoulder area is always the tightest place! Your gain for all the work you'll do is zip in the shoulder area where it would do the most good. Michael Amick Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:42:43 -0600 From: Tom Brusehaver Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats >One other detail that's a little fuzzy is the center seat belt attachment. >I'm thinking I'll just mount the tube on a small block of foam (elevating it >so I can get wrenches on the bolt), and lay the reinforcements as per plans >over the block and floor instead of on the heat duct. Any reason this won't >work, or any better ideas (perhaps a stud, similarly reinforced, embedded in >the floor)? In the Marshall(?) basic composites book there is the math laid out for seat belt attach in a composite airplane. Nothing complicated, but a change like this, you better make sure you have the strenght in the right place. The duct gets strength due to the shape, the fact it goes under the seat, and the extra ply's over the top of it. I know when I looked at the silly aluminium tube laying there on top of the foam, I questioned the strength. Now after stepping on it, and putting a bolt through the hole, I think it'll hold me and another 200lb'er pretty well. Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:21:57 -0500 From: Jeff Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats Michael Amick wrote: > Have you SAT in a cozy with the electric spend brake to compare?? > I helped a fellow builder by making the seat cushions for his plane. > The > bottom cushion was made thick enough (3" vs 2"in the plans) with firm > poly > foam to raise his line of sight slightly for best visiblity over the > nose. He > is 5' 11" (& moderatly wide)& has the electric brake. The net result is > a > completely flat area across the front seat. > This is what we did our airplane and it works as a bench. -- Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc. E-mail: Jeff@aerocad.com 2954 Curtis King Blvd. Ft. Pierce, FL. 34946 Shop# 561-460-8020 7:00am to 3:30pm Home# 561-344-6200 Website: http://www.Aerocad.com Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:16:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats CHeck the archives for my heating system. Basically its 2" alum. tubing both sides, a blower, defrosters, and the last Sunday I was doing my 3 landings (weather, work, and other obligations has been a bad mix for flying) with outside temp below freezing. And even for the 0.4 hour flight I was in my shirt sleeves. If you can't find it in the archives, I'll send it on request. DO I understand that the MKIV backseat fore/aft divider can be removed. Although the COZY's are comfortable for an adult in the rear seat, thats with the person centered where there is more headroom. IF its acceptable to make the seat flat, then the effort should be done, and assemble the seat belts so the 2 outboard ones will mate. I recommend the temperfoam cushions, they are very comfortable on the long haul, I use 3" per their instructions in the front, and 2" in the rear. Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:07:23 -0600 From: Michael Link Subject: Re: COZY: Bench seats DougSheph@aol.com wrote: > After much consideration and a conversation with Nat, I have decided to > eliminate the center console of my plane and go with bench seats in both the > front and back. As alluded to by Michael Amick, you don't have to eliminate the heat duct or build a bench seat. Build the duct and seats per plans, but do not add the console to the top of the duct. Instead, cut a peice of PVC so that you wind up with a half-round,(or a little less than half) cap that is then screwed onto the top of the duct. This will give you a channel for throttle and mixture cables, as well as assorted wires. Make the seat cushions so that they touch, or nearly touch in the center. The PVC channel will be covered by the cushions since it is only about 3/4 to 1" above the top of the heat duct. It looks and feels like a bench seat but retains the strength of the structural keel, and the seatbelt attach, per plans. I also eliminated the throttle quad. in favor of push/pull controls mounted in the center of the inst. panel between the leg holes. These controls are both equipped with verniers, so that precise mixture, as well as fine throttle adjustments can be made.This also cleans up the front seat area. One last thing; I removed the foam inside the armrests, (made a glass to glass area) adjacent to the aileron torque tubes so that the armrests could be made a little thinner. Every 3/4 " of extra butt room helps. Regards, Michael Link Cozy MK-IV N-171ML From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:56:44 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Seat : Building for comfort In a message dated 10/21/99 5:53:25 AM Central Daylight Time, cappsfan@ameritech.net writes: << I ask that you take a look at the diagram and give me your opinion. >> I have sat in both right and left seats of Cozys for hours and can't think of another airplane I have flown that is more comfortable. The only improvement I can think of is to have the front seats staggered.....but then you will be drastically changing the structure, load paths and building another unique design.......suggest you follow the plans.......You will find the Cozy very comfortable. Steve Stagger EZ N700EZ From: "John Slade" Subject: Re: COZY: Seat : Building for comfort Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:59:52 -0400 Hi Larry, First off - Don't attach things to maillist emails. It drives Marc crazy because he gets rows and rows of binary in his "text" message. The only 'acceptable' way to refer people to a picture is to post it to a web site, then reference it. Pity, but that's the way it is. Hmmm. I could do something about that with a little perl coding. Hmmm. I could do something about standardizing headings at the same time. Maybe later. Question for group - would people find the ability to post images to a central location a very great benefit? Anyway, back to the seat... I agree with Steve. Add good cushions (I like the ones which self contour) and the Cozy is very very comfortable. Of the various things you might consider changing, this is probably way down on the list, especially since you'd be messing with the structure. A general note on changes: Since starting my Cozy last March I've seen a dozen builders go through the "stage" you're going through. Old hands have probably seen hundreds do it. I went through it myself. We're a naturally creative and innovative bunch. Give us any system and we automatically look for a better way. Problem is that this seriously detracts from forward motion. Some spend 10 years rethinking everything. Many don't make it to flying. Those that do eventually get off the ground may have a "better airplane". Maybe not, but I'd bet they would have been airborne in half the time if they'd suppressed their innovative talents. Lets leave the standard argument "if you're not an aeronautical engineer, don't design an airplane your life will depend on" aside for a moment. My experience is that each time you even consider doing something different from plans you divert your mental energies and dramatically slow down your progress. Ask yourself the question "What is my primary objective?" If it's to create the perfect airplane, then be prepared for it to take a lifetime. If it's to build and fly a Cozy, then ignore your creative talents and follow plans. The policy I've adopted (and would recommend) is to build your first plane per plans without considering any major changes. Get it flying, then decide what needs fixing and either change it or build a second plane. Chances are you'll be very happy with the first plane and wont bother changing anything. Sorry if this seems like a rant. Its just my feeble attempt to verbalize the issue. Regards, John Slade, Cozy #757 http://kgarden.com/cozy