From: Gunrider Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:03:38 EST Subject: COZY: GARAGE DOOR >From experience, what is the minimum width to get your Cozy out the door (w/spar and strakes attached)? I may have to move..... From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: GARAGE DOOR Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 9:19:13 EST Hugh Farrior (not that you'd know it from the lack of signature :-) ) wrote: >>From experience, what is the minimum width to get your Cozy out the door >(w/spar and strakes attached)? >I may have to move..... Having built my plane in the basement and being in the process of moving to a new house with a 2-car garage, I'm not speaking from experience but I'll tell you what I calculated. A MKIV with both strakes attached would need just about 10.25 feet of opening, assuming that you've got the space to position the front of one strake at one side of the door and then rotate the other strake out. I calculated that it __MIGHT__ be possible to get it out of an 8' garage door if the door is 7' high and __IF__ you can use the diagonal distance (what a pain in the keister that would be), but I wasn't willing to chance not having it work. I figured that if I didn't have at least an 11' opening, I wasn't going to buy the house. As it turns out, I've got dual 8' doors with a removable center post, so I'll have over 18' of opening. Good luck with your workspace....... -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: DMDS%mimi@magic.itg.ti.com Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 15:28:42 CST Subject: COZY: Re: GARAGE DOOR From: DAVE DE SOSA DMDS Subj: Re: GARAGE DOOR I recently moved from a house with 2 eight foot wide garage doors to one with a four car garage with two double wide doors. My Cozy does not have the strakes on yet but does have the wing spar attached. It barely made it out of the eight foot wide opening with maybe a 1/2 inch to spare. This was after we removed a center support beam set three feet back from the garage door face and with the fuselage angled tail first at the best possible position to get one end of the wing spar out first followed by picking up the whole plane moving it sideways so that the fuselage side was almost touching the center support between the garage doors and then swinging the other end of the wing spar out very carefully. No way would this have fit with the strakes attached. I believe Marc's calculation of 10.25' is probably a pretty darn good estimate since the spar is around 11.5' long. I question getting out if the standard eight foot wide door even if 7' high because when a typical sliding garage door is fully open it doesn't go up to the maximum height of the actual opening but is a few inches below this. Also, the eaves above the outside of the garage door may also prevent this. David de Sosa Cozy MKIV #080 Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:10:54 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: GARAGE DOOR My double garage was designed to have the pillar removed, so I thought! When the time came and I called the builder to modify the front two doors into 1 big one, he reminded me that he forgot to build a single beem across the pillar and had two halves resting on it. I ended up errecting a temp. shack with a 12 ft opening and 21ft deep. The cozy now stands on it's wheels in comfort with a few inches to spare each side. The shack cost me less than what the door would cost and I still have the double garage, now home for the wings? So in conclusion for extreme comfort you need a tri-garage, this will enable even putting the wings on, more than likely my next mod on the workshop. All progressive. Cheers. ______________________________________________________ Visit South Africa, after an extended holiday return with a pilots licence. Flight Training: http://home.intekom.com/glen/avai/progress.htm Rego Burger, web site: http://home.intekom.com/glen/rnb.htm (home e-mail) mailto:rnb@intekom.co.za RSA Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:29:34 +0100 From: ernie de goveia Subject: COZY: Re:GARAGE DOOR My garage door is less than 8ft,by 2 inches, so sometime I will face the same problem. Some preliminary thought suggests that caster dollies under the main wheels would allow sideway and movement in other directions. This may enable one to get the cozy with strakes out the door? What do you guys think ,or do I dream on? Ernie in Cape Town Nowhere near this problem yet From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Re:GARAGE DOOR Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 10:29:59 EST Ernie de Goveia writes; >My garage door is less than 8ft,by 2 inches, so sometime I will face the >same problem. Some preliminary thought suggests that caster dollies under >the main wheels would allow sideway and movement in other directions. This >may enable one to get the cozy with strakes out the door? What do you guys >think ,or do I dream on? You're dreaming :-). Look at the line drawing on the back of the plans. Note that the strakes end at BL70, for a total width of 140", or 11' 8". Now, take a ruler and measure the _SMALLEST_ distance from the back tip of one strake to anywhere on the other side of the fuselage - it's about 87.5% of the strake width (from the tip of one strake to the point where the opposite strake joins the fuselage at the front), or about 9' 9". Now, this is a point to point measurement - you've got all sorts of things on your garage door and on the plane that will keep you from getting anywhere near this close - hence my original estimate of at least 10' 3" as an absolute minimum. So, you won't get it out of an 8' 2" door with both strakes on, guaranteed. Maybe with one, but not two. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:34:27 +0100 From: blecoq Subject: COZY: 8ft Garage door Hi from France I have the exact same garage door problem because I am building in a two cars garage which indeed has a center pole and believe it or not : - It is a damned solid concrete pole . - I designed the garage myself a few years ago believing I would latter build a Lancair kit . At the time I already had the info pack for the Lancair 360 and checked with it to see if I could take the bird out with the center pole . It was ok so I decided to go ahead and put the pole because two small doors is a lot cheaper than one big one. Then I switched to the Cozy when I seriously considered building and I am very happy to have done so because of the marvelous design. Then there was several issues there once the strakes are done (both because with only one strake done there is no problem getting the bird out ). First of all , getting the bird out: My door is 8.2 feet wide by 6.9 feet high. My calculations and simulations shows that getting the bird out would be close to impossible; it would require extensive support building and would be a very high risk for the aircraft integrity. So I decided to cut the pole at some point. The next question is : Will I be able to finish the project in my garage? For that the two issues are: * Be able to flip over the airplane inside the garage because a lot of work needs to be done with the bird upside down. * Be able to paint the bird inside the garage. On the first issue I was a bit wondering because flipping the bird like it is shown on Nat's newsletters requires a lot more height than what is available in my garage. So I tried with flipping it over doing a 1/2 roll instead of 1/2 loop . There you need to protect the end of the spar and the nose but the height required is 10.2 feets. Believe it or not but I had 10.3 feet in my garage below the roof. It still requires to totally empty the garage ( to get garbage out the way when doing the flip) and you need to be at least 7 to 8 persons to be extra safe for the fuselage ( 2 at the nose , 2 at one end of the spar 2 at the other end and one for checking everything and giving coordinated orders which I did myself ) but it indeed works. So I was able to finish all the strakes and the contouring. I had to flip it 4 times ( been twice upside down). It is a hassle to empty the garage but the calling of friends is a good reason for a party after the flip and it is a lot better to have the bird at home than in a hangar at the airport because if you have only half an hour free then you have half an hour work done if the bird is at home not if it is at the airport. I also have young kids and didn't want to get away from them long. ( They are getting at a flying age now as is my bird: this is called good planning ahead).A lot of reasons to keep the bird at home during building and accept that hassle. Second problem: Painting. Well again I emptied my garage, did a very big paint booth by building a tent in front of the two opened doors and then I have closed it fully with plastic film ( ceiling , floor and walls). That was this week.Now I am ready to paint and it will be this week-end. I decided to have a professionnal come home and do it. He came by today to check everything and was very happy with the set up. So we will be doing it Sunday, Monday an Tuesday. I hope it will work out fine. I decided to go polyfiber as well . I will tell you more on that next week. I will then go on and start the final assembly ( Everything is basically built now) still in my garage at home. ( Hope to fly this year ). At the end I will indeed cut that damned pole out with support on the sides leaving enough room to roll the bird out on the wheels. One last thing: my garage is not getting out on the street, it gets out in the garden which is fully closed by a wall and main entrance so there is not too much worry about leaving the garage doors open which I did fairly often when both wings are fitted to the fuselage. Happy building. Benoit LECOQ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:43:25 +0100 From: blecoq Subject: Re: COZY: 8ft Garage door Paul Comte wrote: > Have you considered lifting it out with a crane? This requires cutting a > one and a half by four meter slot in the roof. If your garage is recent > construction it shouldn't be hard to repair the roofing on a pitched roof. > I have seen this done to move a large piece of equipment into a building > that is constructed with poured concrete walls. This is a No No because I will have the airplane fully set up for flight ( including engine on ) What I want is : the day I go to the airport I will only have to bolt the wings on , do a few checks and go for the taxiing tests ASAP. Benoit From: gperry@usit.com Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:27:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: COZY: Re:GARAGE DOOR At 04:29 PM 3/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >My garage door is less than 8ft,by 2 inches, so sometime I will face the >same problem. Some preliminary thought suggests that caster dollies under >the main wheels would allow sideway and movement in other directions. This >may enable one to get the cozy with strakes out the door? What do you guys >think ,or do I dream on? > >Ernie in Cape Town >Nowhere near this problem yet > > Ernie, I agree with Marc - mainly because I tried this trick myself. And trust me...it DOESN'T work! I ended up making a panic call to Jeff Russell who drove over and showed me and four large strong males how to "tilt" the plane so that the edge of one strake grazed the upper corner of the one side of the garage door and the other strake grazed the cement floor and the lower corner of the other side of the door. Messy and skid marks left all around. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone! Gregg Perry Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:14:24 -0600 Subject: COZY: Re: COZY 'Other' Questionnaire From: mikefly@juno.com (Michael B Bowden) On Tue, 24 Mar 98 16:19:58 EST "Marc J. Zeitlin" writes: >Michael; > >Just out of curiosity, I'm surveying the 29 people on the COZY mailing > >list that are explicitly NOT building COZY's - i.e. you're building >L.E.'s, V.E.'s, E-racers, Berkut's, etc. > >Given that there's a mailing list for canard builders in general >(canard-aviators@canard.com), I'm wondering why you are interested in >being on a (pretty much) COZY specific list. I'm not trying to get >you >guys to leave - far from it. At less than 10% of the total list >population, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM whatsoever with your >membership. I'm just curious why you choose to receive all this email >that's only peripherally related to the specific plane you're building >or flying. > >I realize that a small number of you are vendors of parts or gurus in >some specific area - I'm really addressing this to the Flyer/Builders >of >Other aircraft. > >If you could reply to me directly I'd appreciate it - it will help me >understand the dynamics of membership in this list better. > >Thank you very much for your cooperation. > >-- >Marc J. Zeitlin email: >marcz@an.hp.com > Marc, I was encouraged to sign up to the Cozy News Group by Steve Wright. He said there would be pleanty of information pertaining to all glass canard types. I agree with him 100%. Besides, a Cozy is a big EZ. P.S. Over the week end, I was part of a group who helped Mike Link remove his Cozy Mark 4 from his garage and transport to the airport. His garage door opening was just over 9 feet six inches. We were able to clear the door by a couple of inches, with dollies under each main. Mike made a scale drawings with a cut-out of the Cozy that was moved to simulate the motion needed to clear the door. Worked great! I would say that any one contemplating going through a smaller opening should make 3D models. Copy sent to the group. Mike Bowden Two EZ MS1 N102ML _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:01:07 -0500 From: Darren DeLoach Subject: COZY: Review: HobbyAir Respirator I purchased a HobbyAir "Buddy" system directly from FastTech at SunNFun. The Buddy model has the larger pump, a Y connector and two hoses/masks so that two people can use it at once. Although some of the usual suppliers offer discount prices on the basic model, I didn't find anyone touting the 2-person model and as it turned out FastTech gave me an effective discount anyway: 50 dollars off list price, free shipping, free protective covers for the tyvek dust hood I bought as an option (about a $25 value at their pricing). My final cost for the two-mask unit, hood, covers, shipping was about $480, give or take (going from memory). Not cheap, but for me at least worth it. The discounters may get you a better deal. You put the blower itself somewhere in clean air, in my case outside the garage. It has a short plug cable, so you'll definitely need an extension cord. It's relatively loud, so having it well away from you is a good thing. A ten-foot hose leads from the unit to the Y connector. You can plug two masks, or one mask plus a small cap with a hole in it, into the Y connector. From there you get 40 feet of hose to a quick-disconnect mechanism. Your mask has about 4 feet of hose and a belt you clip the hose to, then quick-connect to the long hose. I originally purchased it because someone at OSH last year mentioned that a forced air respirator would make the hot Texas days in the garage feel a little cooler (tyvek suit on a 98 degree day is not nice). It seemed like a good way to kill two birds with one stone, feel cooler and get cleaner air than my face mask got me. I am happy to report that you DEFINITELY feel cooler with forced air! Worth it for that alone, at least here in Texas. My first usage was while doing a bunch of dremeling/power sanding/hand sanding, trying to get some of the rough areas done before the bottom was on while it was still easy to get to everything. At first I used just the respirator (and felt cooler, nice), but after getting fiberglass dust in my eyes twice (fuselage was on sawhorses, so I was sanding just below face level) I put the tyvek hood I got from them on. Not only did it cure the dust-in-face problem, but I felt EVEN COOLER with the air semi-trapped inside the hood around my face for a moment! The down side: The mask got clouded with dust and I had to stop several times to clean the mask off; OTOH, better the mask than my face. Last weekend, two of us used it while doing the Chap 6 fuselage bottom layup. Once again, overall nice and cooler, plus with forced air it's not such a big deal if the mask seal is momentarily broken since positive pressure air blows the nasty EZ Poxy smell away. One down side: the air has a "rubbery" smell to it coming from the new hoses. The rubbery smell has decreased in the few times I've used it. I expect it to get even better with more use, though somehow I suspect it will never fully go away. It's not particularly worse than the smell of my old mask, though, just different. I've rinsed the hoses, but not the mask itself yet. The hose was generally long enough to get around, I could walk all the way around my 4x12 ft table and part way down the other side (but not all the way). You just had to remember to stop and go around the other way before you got to the end of the hose. The mask is light weight, the belt clip keeps it from "dragging" (one of the things I worried about). Bottom line: with only a few uses, "longevity" remains to be seen. In usage, though, it works fine and you do get clean, cool air. It is a bit noisy, but you place the unit outside so that's not too much of a problem, though I did have to say "huh??" several times to the folks helping me (hint: lift the mask away from your face!) It seems well built. I recommend it for anyone in a hot climate in an uncooled garage (like me), or anyone who want _clean_ air, not just filtered air. With the unit needing to be outside, in bad weather you may still need your old mask. -- Darren DeLoach http://www.deloach.com Chap. 7 From: Mike Grubb Subject: COZY: Space Required to Build - was loy trip report Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:59:50 -0600 I currently have a 12'W X 20'L X 8'H shed with a 5'W X 6'-10"H door opening and was going to hold off building a Cozy until I could finish a 3-car garage (1 stall for my wife's car, 2 for building the Cozy). Since I haven't bought the Cozy plans yet, I was wondering how much I could complete in my existing shed? Any thoughts? >some nice looking work for chapter 5, in a rather confining >8'x10'(?) shed. way to go mark and thanks for giving us the tour... And while I'm asking questions, what environmental problems will I need to account for when building with epoxies in southern Alabama (lots of humidity)? It is common to have 90%-95% humidity. Do I need to condition the building space (i.e. air conditioner/dehumidifier)? Thanks for the info. Mike Grubb 150hp AA1B N1444R Fairhope, AL (4R4) P.S. Could the other Cozy builder in Fairhope e-mail me back, I had a computer crash and lost your name, phone number, and e-mail address. From: Jim Hocut Subject: RE: COZY: Space Required to Build - was loy trip report Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:56:41 -0500 On Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:00 AM, Mike Grubb [SMTP:mikegrub@gulftel.com] wrote: > I currently have a 12'W X 20'L X 8'H shed with a 5'W X 6'-10"H door > opening You can do A BUNCH of work in your current building. You won't be able to attach the center section spar or strakes and get it through the door, but then you'll want to hold off on putting those on the fuselage anyway since working inside the fuselage is easier when you can support it on it's side on saw horses. > humidity)? It is common to have 90%-95% humidity. Do I need to > condition > the building space (i.e. air conditioner/dehumidifier)? Certain epoxies apparantly are adversely affected by humidity (that supposedly was a problem with 2427), but EZ-Poxy doesn't seem to have a problem with humidity. I don't know about the newer epoxies which Nat just recently approved, as I haven't tried them yet. Temperature is a concern, cure times are really long below about 70 deg F, and pot life gets kiind of short about about 85 deg F. I have a window A/C unit in my workshop, and I went to the trouble to insulate it well, so I can keep the temperature wherever I want it any time of the year. Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:25:21 -0500 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: Fwd: COZY: Space Required to Build - was loy trip report Mike; >I currently have a 12'W X 20'L X 8'H shed.... I was wondering how much I could >complete in my existing shed? Any thoughts? Yes. Check the archives regarding workshops - I built ALL major subsystems (wings, canard, fuselage, spar, LG, etc.) in a space smaller than your shed. Others have done the same. >And while I'm asking questions, what environmental problems will I need to >account for when building with epoxies in southern Alabama (lots of >humidity)? It is common to have 90%-95% humidity. Do I need to condition >the building space (i.e. air conditioner/dehumidifier)? Can't hurt, but the most important thing will be to check the epoxy archives (and with Gary Hunter) to find an epoxy that is least effected by the humidity. I believe the EZ-10/84 fits this category, but I'm sure there are others as well. >P.S. Could the other Cozy builder in Fairhope e-mail me back, I had a >computer crash and lost your name, phone number, and e-mail address. Sort of a chicken and egg problem here, but if you send an email to "majordomo@canard.com" with the lines: get cozy_builders mailing_list index cozy_builders get cozy_builders ml_charter end in it, it will give you the latest, greatest, up to date mailing list membership database (as well as an index of all the available files). Hey, what the heck, get the charter too and print it out and keep it taped to the wall next to your computer. That way, you'll always know how to do this the next time your computer blows up :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin               marcz@ultranet.com 3 Sweetbriar Way              http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/ Acton, MA  01720              http://cozy.canard.com/