From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:06:22 -0500 Subject: COZY: Electronic Ignition and one MAG. I am installing a Rose Electronic ignition on my Cozy in place of the left MAG. I have come up with a schematic for wiring the EI and the remaining MAG. I would like to see how other builders have done this. My schematic for this is attached to this message. It is a .BMP file that has been condensed with pkzip. After unziping it will display using PAINT and many other graphic display SWs. The features I think this circuit has are as follows: 1. If you turn the master switch off to conserve battery power the EI still fires as long as the battery lasts or you turn the ignition switch off. 2. The Mag check switch works just like a normal Mag check switch does on most airplanes. 3. The relay is only energized during MAG check. It switches the TACH input from the EI to the MAG. 4. The fuse is to protect against a short in the electronic tach. The failure modes are no worse than a normal aircraft ignition switch except that the switch and relay carry current to the EI. All comments are welcome. Especially if I have overlooked something that could spoil my flying day sometime. From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Electronic Ignition and one MAG. (fwd) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 10:00:29 EST Jack Wilhelmson wrote: > I am installing a Rose Electronic ignition on my Cozy in place of the > left MAG. I have come up with a schematic for wiring the EI and the > remaining MAG. I would like to see how other builders have done this. > My schematic for this is attached to this message. It is a .BMP file > that has been condensed with pkzip. After unziping it will display > using PAINT and many other graphic display SWs. Sneaky, Jack, very sneaky - zip that BMP to make it small enough to get through the size filter :-). While this is a noteworthy subject for discussion, please do not post any more BMP or ZIP files in response to this request. From the COZY BUILDERS MAILING LIST Charter: 14) Do not mail any binary attachments (JPG, GIF, etc.) files or any file over 40 Kb to the mailing list. If you have a picture, program or CAD file you'd like to share, post a notice to the list and then send the file individually to those who request it. You may also request that the administrator post the file on the Unofficial COZY Builder's Web Site for all to peruse. Please respect the size restriction and binary prohibition - this will enhance the utility of the mailing list for everyone. Thanks. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: COZY: Electronic Ignition and one MAG. Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 14:25:47 MST I read my email from the Cozy group on a Unix system that really sucks with attachments. My attachments come as a long text bodies that I have to save, edit, then UUDECODE, then unzip, and then ftp to a DOS system, and then launch the program in MSPaint. I think Marc has a similar set up. (After doing all that, it still didn't work with the MSpaint program (ver 4.0) which displayed the error that 'the format of this file is not supported.' I did bounce the message to my cc:mail account which is much better with attachments so I can see that many list participants would not understand why attachments are any big deal. I still had the problem with MSpaint but was able to examine it with another application that understood .bmp files. I applaud Jack's resourcefulness in sneaking this one through. :-) I looked over the schematic and agree that it should do everything that it is supposed to do. However, Jeff Rose sells an electronic tach that can mate up to any combination of mags and EI's and do the same thing with a more conventional switch set up. Part of the difficulty with the mag check is figuring out how to multiplex the appropriate signal into the tach signal input. Jeff Rose's tach does this automatically using some electronics he adds to the tach which connect simultaneously to both P-leads (or EI tach out). You just hook up both P-leads and it will automatically select the one which is firing and will not get confused if both of them are firing together. The approach described in the .bmp file requires 2 switches, a relay, an extra circuit breaker, although I concede that it is probably the simplest way to do it if you want to use electromechanical switches. It may also have a drawback in that it may not be obvious what you need to do in case of an emergency, i.e. having to keep track in one's mind exactly how the switches work. This would be particularly true if you ever sold the plane or needed someone else to fly it. Jack, have you considered using Jeff's electronic tach? Lee Devlin LongEZ 36MX Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:05:54 -0500 From: Bill Theeringer Subject: COZY: FPV, Loss of Power on Takeoff Dale: It looks like you got some good responses regarding your INDICATED pressures vs. the current being drawn by your electric heater. I run across this problem daily with customers that have installed our electric= heaters. The problem can be caused by several different reasons, but the= most likely is a voltage drop that appears across a wire that is common t= o both the pressure sender and the heater. This voltage drop is normal and= is directly related to the resistance (size and length) of the wire and t= he current being drawn. The voltage is equal to the current in amps times t= he resistance in ohms. This is also commonly referred to as a "ground loop"= =2E = If the heater is connected directly to the battery one would think that there would be no "loop" as there appears to be no "common" heavy current= carrying wire. Wrong. The current for the heater is not supplied by the= battery but rather by the alternator, assuming the engine is running and the alternator is on line. The alternator case is grounded to the engine= case which has a ground bus that returns this current to the battery common. This return line is also the return for the instruments and will= have a voltage superimposed on it as mentioned above. Adding a separate heavier line from the sender to the instrument will help but not by much.= = I have found the answer is to remove the senders return path from the engine case. The best way to do this is to mount the sender on the firewall or engine mount using an insulated clamp. Addel makes a series = of metal clamps with a rubber inserts that work well. Connect the sender to= the pressure source using a suitable insulated line. Nylon, rubber or so= me other proven safe material. Run a separate ground return from the sender= to the instrument. Be careful about a possible sneak path from other senders. Isolate all of them from the engine case. They can share the same return line as they dont draw much current. A quick check to see if= the problem is being caused by the engine common return is to shut the alternator off (you do have a disconnect, dont you?) and see if the heater/instrument problem goes away. If the heater is connected directly= to the battery then there is no common path when the battery is the sole current supplier. = HTH Bill Theeringer N29EZ See our award winning Long EZ with Jim Newmans excellent retractable gear= at = http://www.flash.net/~infaero/infgear.htm Composite Aircraft Accessories HOME: 805-964-5454, SHOP: 805-964-5453, FAX: 805-683-8577 INTERNET: Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@Compuserve.com PO Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 From: ponciroli@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:04:58 -0500 Subject: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Greetings to all I have been trying to find some light weight material to make wire runs out of and have found the ideal material. In Home Depot I found some covers for flourescent tubes. They come in four foot and eight foot lengths. They don't bend, but can be shaped to fit in the allocated space. When they are set, they can then be covered with BID as required to keep them anchored. Don Ponciroli ponciroli@att.net From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:09:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs On 02/11/98 08:04:58 you wrote: > >Greetings to all > >I have been trying to find some light weight material to make wire runs out >of and have found the ideal material. > >In Home Depot I found some covers for flourescent tubes. They come in four >foot and eight foot lengths. They don't bend, but can be shaped to fit in >the allocated space. When they are set, they can then be covered with BID >as required to keep them anchored. > > Don Ponciroli ponciroli@att.net > > > > Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with 2 corners rounded per usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid of foam and tape, sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. Advantages 1: Nothing more to buy 2: Conforms to mounting surface 3: plenty of room. Use MIG welder wire with small loop on end for fish. Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:29:43 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Power Source Reliability Last November, there was a lenthy post from a list-subscriber commenting on paralleled batteries. I didn't have time to do a proper response until now and the resulting document was quite lengthy . . . Individuals with an interest in the subject are invited to check out, "What's all This Battery Paralleling Stuff Anyhow?" at Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you do, > < What you've always done, > < You will be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: "Ken Grakauskas" Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:50:08 -0500 An experienced builder (not in glass) expressed a concern about running wire in formed troughs made of glass. With no real support inside the trench, he thought that the wires would jostle and abrade over time. I had made half round layups over PVC pipe to affect the same trough types that is being discussed. Got me to thinking (worrying?) Ken Grakauskas grakau@wolv.tds.net >Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with 2 corners rounded per >usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid of foam and tape, >sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. > >Advantages >1: Nothing more to buy >2: Conforms to mounting surface >3: plenty of room. > >Use MIG welder wire with small loop on end for fish. > > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:25:50 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Lightweight wire runs >>> "Ken Grakauskas" 13/February/1998 12:50am >>> An experienced builder (not in glass) expressed a concern about running wire in formed troughs made of glass. With no real support inside the trench, he thought that the wires would jostle and abrade over time. I had made half round layups over PVC pipe to affect the same trough types that is being discussed. Got me to thinking (worrying?)<<<<<<<<<< Consider: Your concern is valid if the inside (conduit) is rough and there is a lot of vibration. Most insulation used in "modern" wires today are pretty tough but quality control would be a good thing before hauling them in and just leaving them.. Most of the troughs/conduit we shape for this task are done over parcel tape which is very smooth so the inside is smooth, removing the one problem of abrasion... Good thinking anyway, just avoid the main problem -- rough edges. You can also line the inside of the glass trough with felt if you want to go to these lengths before final placement. Moulding over smooth PVC is also a good idea... just keep it smooth. The only draw back here is you need a bigger radius to get the same no. of wires into than a rectangled shaped conduit like in the plans. It's those old area formulae we learnt at school, never thought I'd need them... :-) A rectangle with the length = to dia of circle and it's height = to the radius of the same circle will have an area +/- 1.27 x the area of the half circle. "Give or take a few..." So more wire space! Rego Burger CZ4#139 RSA Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:30:26 -0800 From: Frank Johanson Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs I would think that loose wires in the tube , vibrating around would chafe and could cause a short . all wiring i have seen has been secured. food for ? frank johanson cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Home Depot I found some covers for flourescent tubes. From: Cozy7971@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:17:37 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs In a message dated 98-02-11 19:19:40 EST, cdenk@ix.netcom.com writes: << Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with 2 corners rounded per usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid of foam and tape, sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. >> I did basically what Carl Denk suggests above. The difference is that I did the layups on my work bench. The curve is such that it is not a problem to press the wire runs into position. I drilled a few holes for Clecos, buttered the wire runs with flox and pressed them into position. They were held in position with the Clecos while they set up. Either way works. Carl's method is more elegant but I think mine also worked well with no loss of craftsmanship. Dick Finn From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:16:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Frank Johanson writes I think as long as they are not being moved longwise of the wire, and breakouts are protected with grommets or sleeving that won't be a problem. The wires aren't perfectly straight and the tend to fill the whole area, buffering from much movement. I have 550 hours on the plane, and there is no evidence of chaffing. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:26:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Howard Rogers writes Not Good: 1: too heavy 2: How are you going to loosen adel clamps buried under the arm rests, they are structure, and need to be glued in. 3: You will be at times adding or subtracting wires, going to be difficult at best. Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:49:54 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs >In a message dated 98-02-11 19:19:40 EST, cdenk@ix.netcom.com writes: > ><< > Duct tape fuselage side, hot glue 1 inch square pieces of urethane foam with >2 corners rounded per > usual glass criteria, duct tape foam, 2 plys BID, next day pop loose, get rid >of foam and tape, > sand, flox. Cut access holes where needed for breakouts. >> > >I did basically what Carl Denk suggests above. The difference is that I did >the layups on my work bench. The curve is such that it is not a problem to >press the wire runs into position. I drilled a few holes for Clecos, buttered >the wire runs with flox and pressed them into position. They were held in >position with the Clecos while they set up. > >Either way works. Carl's method is more elegant but I think mine also worked >well with no loss of craftsmanship. > >Dick Finn I haven't gotten to this part, yet, but I'm wondering why I couldn't have the best of both worlds. I would like to run my wires in Adel clamps, fully supported in rubber, off the surface. I would then like to cover them with protective covers like those Dick describes above, perhaps held in place with velcro or small screws. I wouldn't even make these covers till just about everything is finished and working. They may take up more space in the corner than running wires conduit-style, but I wouldn't worry about any chafing, whatsoever. Whaddya think? Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 23:56:56 EST Howard Rogers writes: >I haven't gotten to this part, yet, but I'm wondering why I couldn't have >the best of both worlds. I would like to run my wires in Adel clamps, >fully supported in rubber, off the surface. I've started doing essentially this. I installed the plans called out (in the Cozy MKIV) conduits that Carl Denk describes. As I started doing the wiring up front (ahead of the Instrument Panel), I found that the "Adel" clamp worked very well at holding various size wire bundles in place, and were very easy to use. I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. I've got a variety of clamp sizes, and between using that and the black plastic spiral wrap wire protectant cover, I've got an easily disassembleable system. Back of the IP, I run the wires through the standard electrical conduits. I've also run a 5/8" 3003 aluminum tube from the firewall to the I.P. to use as a vacuum line, and have held that in place with the Adel clamps as well. I've also used them to hold various actuator cables in place (parking brake, retractable step) along with the nylaflow brake lines. You can probably guess that I like these clamps a lot. So far, as long as I use at least a 3 BID layup under the #6 sheet metal screw, I haven't been able to strip the hole even after four or five insertions - I'll see how many it takes. Worst comes to worst, though, I can easily drill another small hole 1/8" away from the first one (after all the fitting, etc. is done) and screw the clamp down there. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 14:40:57 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Marc wrote: >So far, as long as I use at least a 3 BID layup under the #6 sheet >metal screw, I haven't been able to strip the hole even after four or >five insertions - I'll see how many it takes. Worst comes to worst, >though, I can easily drill another small hole 1/8" away from the first >one (after all the fitting, etc. is done) and screw the clamp down >there. This falls in the FWW category. I hate the idea of sheet metal screws in the thin glass as called out in the plans. just asking for a problem down the road. Marc's idea of adding some BID has merit. I plan to use 4 ply BID along attach points of armrests and electrical channels wherever they may be removable; including the center consoles. The use Nutserts or similar (with a touch of epoxy) and #6 machine screws to fasten panels down. Seems a bit more durable and neater than sheet metal screws. At least that's the plan..... Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500 Futz'n with elevators (still!) lschuler@cellular.uscc.com --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="RFC822.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="RFC822.TXT" Return-Path: Received: from www.uscc.com (www.uscc.com [204.179.101.2]) by gatekeep.uscc.com with ESMTP id XAA20274 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by www.uscc.com with ESMTP id WAA22200 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:58:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from hpwarhw.an.hp.com (hpwarhw.an.hp.com [15.57.193.122]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with SMTP id VAA17554 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by hpwarhw.an.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA14515; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:56:57 -0500 Received: by hpwarhw.an.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA14510; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:56:56 -0500 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Message-Id: <9802160456.AA14510@hpwarhw.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com (Cozy MK-IV Builders) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 23:56:56 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Marc J. Zeitlin" --simple boundary-- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:57 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Pollock Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Larry Schuler wrote: >I hate the idea of sheet metal screws in the >thin glass as called out in the plans. just asking for a problem down the road. >Marc's idea of adding some BID has merit. >I plan to use 4 ply BID along attach points of armrests and electrical channels >wherever they may be removable; including the center consoles. The use Nutserts >or similar (with a touch of epoxy) and #6 machine screws to fasten panels down. >Seems a bit more durable and neater than sheet metal screws. When we built our Velocity, we did not like the sheet metal screws either. We also embedded #6 threaded inserts into the fuselage sides using flox. That way we could use #6 screws and locknuts and would not have any problem when removing or reinstalling them. Just my two cents worth! Michael.Pollock@mci.com Flying Velocity N173DT Building Cozy MKIV #643 (Starting chapter 6) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:56:28 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin says: >I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. (snip) I hadn't thought of doing the anchoring this way, but I may give it a try. A friend utilized an interesting method that incorporated the standard two-screw nutplate. He used his dremel to rout an oblong hole in the skin, and hog out a small cavity behind it. He then put some RTV on a screw and screwed it into a nutplate. This forms a nice RTV "ball" at the end, preventing the entry of epoxy into the threads. He squirted some flox into the cavity behind the oval hole, inserted the nutplate, and turned it 90 degrees. A little sheetmetal "bridge" under the screwhead held the assembly taught, forcing the nutplate against the inner skin. Clean off the excess flox, and let it cure. It was easy to do multiples in a batch, and easy to add an overlooked one later. This seemed to work very well, and none of them broke loose upon final tightening. Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu From: Howard Calk Subject: RE: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:41:16 -0500 Here is another method for making embedded nutplates (if you have had enough already ;-)). Drill a small hole in the glass. Bend a wire 90 degrees about a quarter inch or so from the end. Chuck the wire up in a drill or dremel and insert into the hole. Work it up and down to make a little pocket in the foam behind the glass. Fill the pocket with wet flox. When cured, drill and tap for desired screw or drill and use a self tapping screw. Howard Calk Long EZ builder -----Original Message----- From: Howard Rogers [SMTP:hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 1:56 PM To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin says: >I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. (snip) I hadn't thought of doing the anchoring this way, but I may give it a try. A friend utilized an interesting method that incorporated the standard two-screw nutplate. He used his dremel to rout an oblong hole in the skin, and hog out a small cavity behind it. He then put some RTV on a screw and screwed it into a nutplate. This forms a nice RTV "ball" at the end, preventing the entry of epoxy into the threads. He squirted some flox into the cavity behind the oval hole, inserted the nutplate, and turned it 90 degrees. A little sheetmetal "bridge" under the screwhead held the assembly taught, forcing the nutplate against the inner skin. Clean off the excess flox, and let it cure. It was easy to do multiples in a batch, and easy to add an overlooked one later. This seemed to work very well, and none of them broke loose upon final tightening. Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu From: "Brown, Michael" Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:59:00 -0700 Marc J. Zeitlin says: >I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. --------------- My method was to install conduits from the engine compartment to the instrument panel during the build process (prior to installation of armrests). In addition, you will need conduits from the back seat to the instrument panel to accommodate the contactor wiring and antenna leads. The conduits are either strapped to adjacent structure with ty-wraps or glassed to the fuselage sides every foot or so with a small BID patch. I used both soft aluminum and polyethylene tubing - my recommendation is to use poly for its light weight and easy wire pulls (very low surface friction). Adhesive pads also work - you can get units which accommodate the standard ty-wrap sizes. This is especially useful for those items which are forgotten until construction and painting is already completed. Mike B Cozy N97PZ michael.brown@alliedsignal.com From: BCGARDNER@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:13:47 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs I've enjoyed seeing all the creativity displayed by the builders who have proposed solutions to the lightweight wire run question. One question nags at me, however, and maybe someone can shed some light on this. Is flammability an issue one should consider in creating a lightweight conduit that will carry wires with electrical power? If so, what choices are best? I'm just starting my Mark IV. Barry Gardner N89BG From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:00:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs On 02/17/98 20:13:47 you wrote: > >I've enjoyed seeing all the creativity displayed by the builders who have >proposed solutions to the lightweight wire run question. One question nags at >me, however, and maybe someone can shed some light on this. > >Is flammability an issue one should consider in creating a lightweight conduit >that will carry wires with electrical power? If so, what choices are best? > >I'm just starting my Mark IV. > >Barry Gardner >N89BG > > Several thoughts: 1: All wire must be teflon isulation, basically eliminating the wire itself. 2: Circuits must be protected with proper current limiting devices, i.e. fuses or circuit breakers, to elimate the source of heat. I'm not going to get into the preferability of fuses or circuit breakers which has been recently been beat to death, but there have been instances of their failure to open the circuit, though somewhat rarely. 3: The master relay and field coil power of the alternator are backup ways to remove the power. 4: Some advocate a fuse very near the alternator to protect the main wire if it would short. I decided that I preferred not the fuse as a keep it simple, and one less thing to fail. I treat this area carefully, and pay close attention to the main wires anytime I am near them. 5: We are fortunate that glass does not conduct electricity, reducing the possiblilty of shorts, though caution is urged near carbon fiber. 6: When dressing wires, support frequently, bundle tightly when possible, provide chafe protection in the form of shrink wrap, spiral wrap, tie-wraps, and grommets. Observe airframes at your local maintenance hanger, and pick the brains of the mechanics. There are several manuals of accepted practice puiblished by the FAA and by Tony Bingalis, buy all of them, and study them! From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:08:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs On 02/17/98 17:59:00 you wrote: > > >Marc J. Zeitlin says: >>I glass a 3 BID pad anywhere on the >>inside skin that a clamp will go, and then predrill a small hole and use >>a #6 sheet metal screw to hold the clamp in place. > --------------- > >My method was to install conduits from the engine compartment to the >instrument panel during the build process (prior to installation of >armrests). In addition, you will need conduits from the back seat to >the instrument panel to accommodate the contactor wiring and antenna >leads. The conduits are either strapped to adjacent structure with >ty-wraps or glassed to the fuselage sides every foot or so with a small >BID patch. I used both soft aluminum and polyethylene tubing - my >recommendation is to use poly for its light weight and easy wire pulls >(very low surface friction). > >Adhesive pads also work - you can get units which accommodate the >standard ty-wrap sizes. This is especially useful for those items which >are forgotten until construction and painting is already completed. > >Mike B Cozy N97PZ >michael.brown@alliedsignal.com > > > > I prefer glassing to the structure instead of tie-wraps where inaccessible, i.e. under armrests. The aluminum tubing must be heavy, depending on wall thickness the plastic tubing could be. Remember what Burt said: "If you want to put it in an airplane, throw it up into the air, if it comes down, its too heavy. Certain plastics give off noxious fumes and have a relatively low flame point, urge caution before using. One square inch, not 1" diameter is needed each side, and then I ran the heavy wire outside the conduits. I have rear battery, the ultimate scanner with its 4 EGT and CHT, 2 oil pressure, etc is quite a wire bundle in addition to antennas. Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:24:01 -0800 From: Wayne Lanza Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs RE: wiring runs- It's amazing how much energy can be spent in discussion on something as simple as a tube, so here's my 2 cents... Go to the sporting goods department (anywhere) and buy a couple of tubes that golfers use in their golf bags to protect the clubs when they drop/slide the club into the holes in the bag. They are about a buck a piece, weigh next to nothing, are easiliy joined with foam tape, and can be cut with a pair of scissors. For the purists out there worried about fire/melting, I say buy one tube and use it as a mandrel to layup 2 plies of bid onto. After the bid cures, you can fuss with the mess for a few minutes and pull the pieces apart, then make more tubes for the rest of the run(s). Except for the #10 twisted pair run for powering the front half of my MK3, ALL of my wiring fits nicely in the golf tube (about 1.25" dia.) I also recommend that you drop a COUPLE of pull strings in the conduit and/or run a small ~1/2" thin wall tube in with the bundles. Use the milky white flex tube from the plumbing supply. This tube is good for later-in-life add on's and capilary runs for your manifold pressure or other mechanical engine gauge. Another trick for pulling wires (I used this to pull the nav & strobe wires through my wings) is SUCK a length of string through using your shop vac, the rest is easy... Enough yammering for now, Wayne Lanza From: ponciroli@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:30:00 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs Bob Gardner wrote: > >Is flammability an issue one should consider in creating a lightweight conduit >that will carry wires with electrical power? If so, what choices are best? I gave the flourescent tube covers the flame test, and it was difficult to make it burn. I did a similar test with a piece of epoxy on glass and had a similar result. Don Ponciroli ponciroli@att.net From: PDSTRAND@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:41:21 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Lightweight wire runs I was intrigued by Don's lightweight wire runs, so I went to his house and took a look for myself. The installation is very neat and took about 1 hour. I went to Home Depot and bought two 8 ft light covers. They are made from polycarbonate (lexan) and are 1.675 in od. I weighed them on the lab scale at work and they are .3730 lbs (20 gms) each. I think that they come close to the toss it in the air test. Pete Strand #534 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:08:56 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Paralleled Batteries Article Some weeks ago, I promised to upload an updated version of the dual battery article I did for Sport Aviation a few years ago. It's finished and available at: We've purchased the software to generate the widely accepted .pdf files. They're bigger than the old .html + graphics files but MUCH easier to maintain on our website. Further, they produce faithful printed copies of the work without regard to the idiosyncracies of your browser and screen resolution. Another feature you'll see in this and future postings of our printed materials is permission to republish any article in a not-for-profit educational endeavor. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you do, > < What you've always done, > < You will be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:15:09 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Starter fiction . . . >> I'm considering putting a small light in my panel that will be connect= ed to >> the output side of the starter relay to show when power is being appli= ed to >> the starter.=20 > >Actually it=92s not necessary. From what I have been told, your amp gau= ge will >go off the charts if the starter remains engaged (you are installing amp= and >volt gauges, right?). When this happens the starter acts as a alternato= r >putting out mega amps.=20 I think starters as a rule all have overrun clutches else they would not survive a stuck solenoid scenario. Consider that if the starter cranks the engine at approx 300 rpm and features an internal gear reduction on the order of 25:1, what happens to the armature when engine RPMs come up to 1000-1500 RPM? 1000 RPM times 25 is 25,000 RPM . . . guaranteed to throw ALL of the wire out of the slots if it doesn't take gear teeth off first. The late model Skytecs with the plastic gears wouldn't take it for a second. The reason the ammeter reads higher than usual is because the alternator's voltage regulator has no way to tell if the extra load on the bus is from LOTS of goodies turned on, VERY depleted battery, starter STILL running or a combination of the three. Hence, the alternator goes to full output and pretty much stays there. The starter is running but only at the speed it would normally run with NO load . . . since the output shaft is essentially disconnected by virtue of the overrunning clutch. Being the horribly inefficient motors they are, a starter with zero mechanical load will still draw 50-100 amps but at no time does the starter become a generator. Even if it DID, you would not be able to read it's contribution to system electrical energy . . . ammeters are wired to read flow out of alternator (Loadmeter) or from bus to battery (minus-0-plus battery ammeter). The battery and starter are in parallel with each other downstream of the ammeter. If the starter were actually supplying power to the bus, the regulator would sense TOO much bus voltage and shut the alternator down. Power flow from starter to bus would make a battery ammeter read DOWNSCALE and an alternator loadmeter read ZERO. A common myth well circulated that's not well undestood. A "Starter Engaged" light is indeed a good idea. Many Beech products had them at least as an option for several years. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Do00o=3D(_)=3Do00o=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D < If you do, > < What you've always done, > < You will be, > < What you've always been. >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:05:20 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Starter overspeed . . . >Bob- Just read your thoughts on starters being engaged. Assuming that >there is power applied to the starter due to some fault in the system, and >assuming the starter is not actually engaged on the flywheel, the starter >would freewheel, right? Not exactly. On all exept the old bendix geared Prestolite pigs the starter pinion gear is pushed out to engage the engine ring gear by the same solenoid actuator that closes the electrical circuit between battery and motor. If the engine is running, the starter is essentially free-wheeling because the overrunning clutch prevents the rapidly spinning pinion shaft from feeding engergy back INTO the slower running starter. Assuming electrical power is applied to the motor but NOT providing torque to the engine (for what ever reason) then the armature indeed climbs to some practical, terminal velocity. With the permanent magnet starters, terminal velocity is quite sedate . . . when BACK EMF in the armature (wires rotating rapidly in a FIXed field) approaches applied voltage (BATTERY) the speed increases no further. For series wound starters like the B&C and the Prestolite, there is no theroetical limit for no-load speed EXCEPT that friction and windage provides a modicum of load that prevents the armature speed from going clear to the moon. None the less, the terminal velocity for these starters is MUCH higher than for the PM motor devices and overspeed damage is much more likely. >In this case, is there likely to be any damage >done to the starter itself? If so, how long would you suppose this >condition could prevail without causing damage? Would the type of starter >be a factor? Sure, and for the reasons I've outlined above. Now . . . someone is CERTAIN to suggest the PM motor starter is a better choice because it's overspeed failure probability is lower. Folks should know that the REASON B&C choose to stay with series field motors is because field flux in a series wound motor goes UP as load on the motor goes up . . . they peform better in heavy torque applications like cranking engines. This means the motor IS LESS EFFICIENT (heating losses in series windings not present in fixed magnets) but efficiency is not an issue for a motor that runs 3-8 seconds per flight cycle. It's ability to get the engine running over the widest envelope of conditions (temperature, battery condition, engine tune-up, etc). The decision NOT to go PM was not a trivial consideration . . . PM motors are cheaper to build. But their inrush currents are higher which increases probability of contactor sticking . . . EVERY design decision is a trade-off. So, the long answer to your short question is, "yes, unloaded starters are stressed pretty hard by overspeeding operation - some starters worse than others." But I would add that the likelyhood of a starter coming to grief for this reason does not figure strongly in choices of design for reasons of performance under normal operating conditions. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:20:53 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: re: grommet cutting >>Do you mean the cut is radial making a slit from the outside edge of the >>grommet to the hole in the grommet on a line thru the center of the hole or >>do you really mean tangent to the hole which would cut a notch out of the >>grommet. > Not radially . . . the bundle or tube being protected can wedge itself into the cut and spread the grommet material. Pressure against the tangental cut tends to close the slice . . . not open it. > > Sorry to question, but describing this in words is difficult and > I want to get this right. > No problem. I've put a sketch up on our website describing the technique at: Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:10:07 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Do it yerself ov protection . . . I've had a number of requests recently for information on crafting one's own crowbar overvoltage protection module. I've just posted an article in .pdf format for those interested in the data. See . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:12:29 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: How to kill your Concord battery with 2 extra volts . . Just got back from our second weekend seminar gig of 1998 in Manassas, VA. Dee and I got home about 1:00 a.m. today and I had 600 pieces of e-mail to sort through! This is a thread formed of comments from several listers on the same topic but possibly from or more than one list . . . . Yep . . . two extra volts is indeed one way to kill 'em dead. >I purchased a new Concord sealed battery (X25) for my RV6A and it >died after one year of use. I think the reason was I had my voltage >regulator set to high. Initially, I adjusted Vans voltage regulator >to about 13.6 volts ( which may have been to high for that >battery ? ), however, over the years time my charging voltage >crept upward until it reached about 14.5 volts. I kept lazily >putting off getting under the panel to readjust it. I noticed >the battery getting weaker every time I went out to the airport, >until it was at 8 volts this week. >What should I set that the voltage charging rate to so I don't >fry my new battery ? 13.2 was NOT too high; 14.5 was not terribly abusive for short flights but probably too high for extended cross country travel (see below). ----------------- >I installed a new sealed liquid battery recently. With my old battery my >system would charge at 14.4 to 14.8 volts. I installed the new battery (the >only change) and now I'm charging from 14.6 to 15.5 volts! Could it be the >combination of a new battery and the cold Wx (it was 30 degrees Sunday). Possibly but I doubt it. Depending on your regulator, it MIGHT be temperature compensated for battery charging requirements. In any case 14.4 to 14.8 was too high for about any choice of battery technology. -------------------------- >> My notes of wisdom collected from the List indicate that RG batteries >> should be charged at 14.4 to 14.8 v. >> > >I don't know where you got your info, but RG batteries should be charged at no >more than 2.35V per cell (6 in your 12V battery = 14.1V). So says the RG tech >experts at Battery Man magazine. A possible source of "elevated charge voltage requirements" for the RG batteries may have started with B&C some years back. The literature from B&C's manufacturer of RG batteries was recommending a higher bus voltage for short cycle ops like 1-4 hours per week in an airplane. If one wanted to use an RG battery in a continuous float mode (like standby power in an uninterruptable power supply or emergency lighting) the classic lead-acid 13.8 volts at room temperature numbers applied. Early recommendations for Concord agreed. About two years after B&C won their STC on the RG battery and several years after Concord came out with their early entries into GA battery sizes (they were building RG battereies for bigger airplanes for some time), Skip Koss of Concord showed me data at OSH demonstrating that their RG products would achieve 100% of recycle recharge in airplane service with the classic 13.8V figure. This is a recommendation from one manufacturer of sealed lead acid batteries that may illustrate the source of confusion . . . "Cycle Applications: Limit initial current to 0.20C (C is the nominal A.H. capacity of the battery). Charge until battery voltage (under charge) reaches 2.45 per cell at 68 degrees F (20 deg.C). Hold at 2.45 volts per cell until current drops to approximately 0.01C ampere. Battery is fully charged under these conditions, and change to float voltage." Interpretation of this paragraph is as follows: Suppose you have a 17 a.h. battery with unknown state of charge (you've not flown in several weeks and you just used it to crank a fussy engine). You can RAPIDLY stuff energy back into this battery by setting the charge voltage at 14.7 volts (2.45 x 6 cells) and holding it there until current going into the battery drops to .17 amps (17 a.h. x .01C) whereupon you REDUCE bus voltage to the appropriate "float" value. "Float of Stand-By Service: Hold battery across constant voltage source of 2.25 to 2.30 volts per cell continuously. When held at this voltage, the battery will seek its own current level and maintain itself in a fully charged condition." This paragraph says that if you want to maintain a battery on a constant voltage bus for periods of time AFTER 100% recharge has been achieved, then the bus voltage should be between 13.5 (2.25 x 6) and 13.8 (2.3 x 6) volts. Of course these values are 68F/20C temperature values. Sooooooo . . . if you do a lot of short flights, 14.7 is good, long flights 13.8 is better. Obviously, the NEXT generation voltage requlators should be getting "smart" to the extent that they not only accomodate a battery for its temperature MODULATES bus voltage appropriately to take care of both the short flight and long flight scenario. Since this product does not yet exist . . . may I recommend that the 14.0-14.2 volts is a good compromise . . . in any case, CONTINUOUS bus voltage operations above this value are not healty for any battery . . . thing is, for wet ones, you can replace lost water . . for sealed batteries, once cooked always cooked. I didn't ask Skip about how much TIME it took to get a Concord battery back to 100% at the "float" voltage level . . . obviously it will be LONGER than a the "cycle" level but lacking means for dynamic control of voltage during each recharge cycle, to err on the side of minimum smoke is good policy . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:19:05 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Powersonic Battery? > Does anyone know about the PowerSonic battery I just bought from A/C Spruce? > In the catalog it states it is a "Sealed Maintenance free, recombined oxygen > cycle battery" (catalog page 324, 26 amp-hour). I took this to mean a > recombinant gas battery (RG battery) as recommended by Bob Knuckolls. > > Now on opening the package, the invoice I get says it is a "Gell Cell > battery" which Knuckolls does not recommend. > > THEN I call them to clarify, and they refer me to Allied Battery here in > Seattle. I was just AT Allied shopping for a battery and they would NOT sell > me the same battery I just bought from ACS. Allied said they could not > guaranty the battery because it was not meant to be charged from an > automotive type regulator. > > Who's right? Is this an RG or Gell Cell? Can it be charged with an > alternator/regulator? Should I just give up and get a lead-acid battery? > I have the same battery, it has worked fine for the first 8 hours, I like to > know if there is a problem with this installation now that my A/C is > aaaaalmost ready to fly. I'd be very surprised if it's a real Gel-Cell . . . If operated not over 14.4 volts it will be fine . . . BTW, some conversations with various Lead-Acid battery manufacturers over the past week has yielded the following: There is a slight difference in recommended charging voltages between batteries made from "virgin lead" versus "recycled lead" which has some calcium in it. Most batteries have recycled lead and like to operate at 13.8 for their 100% recharge voltage (room temp) while a few batteries like the B&C products are new, clean lead and are happier at the 14.4 setting. The consequences of operating a virgin lead battery at "too low" a bus voltage simply means that you don't recharge it as quickly nor does it get "topped off" . . . the exact capacity limit is not known to me yet but I suspect it's still better than 90%. Soooooo, difference in performance will be hard to perceive and service life will be good too. I'll be talking to more folk over the next few weeks and will publish a more complete article on the topic. While on the topic of batteries, there was a lot of discussion a few months back about the evils of paralleling and some suggestions circulated about needing "battery isolators" for proper operation of dual batteries. The piece I did on battery paralleling has been reviewed by two manufacturers and blessed. I'll publish further details in a few weeks. We'll be in California for the next week. I have a critical design review to attend for a few days and I'm taking the family along for some R&R. Back on-line the 29th. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:07:08 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Back on line . . . Dee and I were out of town last week for a combination of business and pleasure in California. Between us, there was about 1,000 pieces of e-mail to sort through. I've pretty well cleared my in-basket but given the way I have to scan incoming messages, I may have missed something. If anyone is aware of an item I might have an interest in but have not yet responded to, please give me a heads up on it. ------- A few weeks ago, I was asked about practical applications of LED indicator lamps on amateur built aircraft. I've preprared a draft article now available at: If anyone has questions or information to add to this topic, I'd be pleased to hear about it. ------- About a year ago, I was planning a periodical publication for assembling little technical tid-bits useful in the construction of airplanes . . . the publication was going to be called Tech-Tips. I decided that I didn't need another publishing effort but the need for this venue is still there. As an alternative, we'll add a page to our website where little mini-articles will be made available to the aviation public. I'm posting this notice for two reasons: (1) if you have something to contribute, we'd be pleased to publish it and (2) let your EAA chapter newsletter editors know about it . . . ANY article downloaded from the aeroelectric.com website may be reprinted as the editor sees fit. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:52:50 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Back on line . . . Mr Nuckolls: I have a problem that maybe of general interest to this group and that you or someone else in the group may know the answer to. I installed a Jeff Rose Ignition on my COZY with one slick mag. I have a relay that switches the tach pickup leads for a Westach electronic tach. The problem is that the tach reads correctly with the Mag but reads two times the correct reading on the Rose ignition. I talked to Jeff and he said that his system and the slick mag both put out two pulses per rev. The Westach has a jumper wire that is cut for one or two pulses, but it seems that this would only reverse the problem. JACK Wilhelmson N711CZ. Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:51:07 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Some compact landing light options . . . In my wandering through various stores I try to be alert to un-conventional opportunities to apply technology from other disiplines to airplanes. I have a couple of items to bring to the attention of my airplane building brothers: There's an automotive headlamp used on 96 Olds Cutlass cars that has a very low vertical profile. It's a halogen lamp totally contained inside a sealed refelector/lens assembly. It also features a real connector on the rear for attaching wires. You can take a peek at one of these lamps at: This is a 4352 high beam headlamp assembly. I believe it's a 55 watt unit but I've not chased down the engineering data sheets on it. I belive this lamp is an excellent candidate for leading edge installation on airplanes. It's rated life should be in excess of 300 hours. While low in watts, it's a modern automotive design suited to illuminating the path in front of 65 mph vehicles, I suspect it's suitable also for landing airplanes at that speed. If there's enough interest in this lamp, I could CAD up a bezel, mouting ring and backplate wiht 4-point adjuster screws for aiming. I've got access to an NC machine shop that would give us a pretty good rate on VERY precisly carved pieces of aluminum. Saw another interesting lamp. I think it's used in accent lighting in stores. They have a variety of tracklites that run on low voltage a.c. The EXH lamp can be seen at This tiny spot light is also 50 watt. It's a halogen lamp and features a built in reflector. It may be useful on smaller airplanes with PM alternators. We've all seen cars on the highway with the new low temperature discharge lamps . . . the color temperature of these lamps is up around 4500K (blue white) and they feature about 3x the light for 2/3 the watts. You can see some info on these lamps at: http://www.sylvania.com/prodinfo/auto/arcspecs.htm Haven't put my hands on one of these yet but given their size and efficiency, they're attractive for aircraft applications too. Dee and I will be attending the RV gathering in Red Wing MN next weekend. Also, we have a weekend seminar coming up in Livermore, CA May 16-17. Come see us at either of these gatherings if you can. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:31:44 -0700 Subject: COZY: Home made strobe lights From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) I promised an update on my little project. I originally intended to make a strobe using circuit in an old magazine article I found. But quickly abandoned that when I latched on to a couple instamatic cameras at a garage sale. After verifying that the camera flash worked ok with the 3 volt batteries, I quickly jumped to applying 12V using car battery. As expected, I smoked the transistor. I then replaced transistor with larger one I had floating around. It now handles 8 volts, recharges in a second or two at that voltage. Problem now is that the resistors I use to drop power supply to 8 volts get hot fast. Don't have a good solution yet. Soon as I solve that problem, I'll tie it in to my controller and see how long these things will continually flash. Lotsa fun, although I am still seeing spots in front of my eyes :-) Incidently, if you consider trying this yourself, whatchout!!! These little puppies are triggered by 3000V. I'd hate to get zapped by that! Anyone care to share the development costs? So far I have $ 2.75 into project. I expect total to hit $5, which will put me over budget :-) -al wick 75% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:11:42 -0500 From: Jason Holifield Subject: COZY: RE Home made strobes ok how? writes >Problem now is that the resistors I use to drop power supply to 8 volts get hot fast. Don't have a good solution yet. Instead of using resistors try using zener diodes that are marked for your desired voltage i.e 4.5V, 9v, 7.5V, etc. As you have noticed resistors do a poor job of regulating voltage, they are more suited to limiting the current to a desired level than to regulating voltage. in its simplist form a zener regulator is just a zener diode that is connected across the + and - of the circuit and the voltage is determined by the selection of the proper voltage diode. you will still have to experiment with using a resistor(s) to protect the diode from overcurrent. Zener diodes and resistors are cheap so... have fun. hope this helps Jason Holifield Serial# 0680 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:19:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: RE Home made strobes Holifield writes I would think a 3 pin voltage regulator would do nicely. They are made in fixed and variable voltage varieties. If you can't find a fixed one, then use a variable variety, either substitute the adjusting resistor (small) or use an adjustable (potentiometer) resistor to find the right resistance till the desired voltage is determined. They are available from radio shack or Digi-Key, or other supply house. They require a few other components (resistors and capacitors) but the circuit is simple. From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Tue, 12 May 98 10:34:04 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Al Wick wrote: >I promised an update on my little project. I originally intended to make a >strobe using circuit in an old magazine article I found. But quickly >abandoned that when I latched on to a couple instamatic cameras at a >garage sale. After verifying that the camera flash worked ok with the 3 >volt batteries, I quickly jumped to applying 12V using car battery. As >expected, I smoked the transistor. I then replaced transistor with larger >one I had floating around. It now handles 8 volts, recharges in a second >or two at that voltage. Problem now is that the resistors I use to drop >power supply to 8 volts get hot fast. Don't have a good solution yet. Soon >as I solve that problem, I'll tie it in to my controller and see how long >these things will continually flash. Lotsa fun, although I am still seeing >spots in front of my eyes :-) >Incidently, if you consider trying this yourself, whatchout!!! These >little puppies are triggered by 3000V. I'd hate to get zapped by that! >>Anyone care to share the development costs? So far I have $ 2.75 into project. I expect total to hit $5, which will put me over budget :-) Try 35KV off a TV picture tube if you really want to light up your eyeballs. Been there, done that.... Still walking too; a bit crazier than before, and my hair won't stay down; but other than that..... :-) Interesting concept with the camara flash. Might try a Radio Shlock voltage regulator to drop the 12V to 3V if you can find the right one (may need to go with an adjustable version). Then increase the charge current to the capacitor to speed up the flash cycle. Probably require a bigger coil etc. I think Radio Shlock also sells some flash tubes and some hobby-level breadboarding cuircuit books that may have what you need. Just some thoughts.... Larry Schuler lschuler@cellular.uscc.com From: "norm" Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:57:49 -0400 get in touch with electronic rainbow, they make strobe kits, and by changing the wiring when you first wire it it can be run on 3-v, 6-v, or 12-v. the only item i changed is the flash tube, they use a straight tube about .75" long, so i go to rook shack and get a horseshoe style (they are brighter and give a longer flash and last longer) than the straight ones. the kit is 11.95 and includes all parts and circuit board and directions. they are at 317 291 7262 fax 317 291 7269 www.rainbowkits.com norm & monda cozy IV #202 From: "norm" Subject: Re: COZY: RE Home made strobes Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:03:22 -0400 instead of a resistor to drop the power or a resistor on the regulator use a zener diode on the v-adj pin of an lm317t regulator. a 6.6 volt zener will give 8 volts output. take your desired output voltage and sub 1.4 from it and thats about the voltage of the zener. no resistors or anything else. norm Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:20:55 -0400 From: Rob Cherney Subject: Re: COZY: RE Home made strobes At 07:19 AM 5/12/98 -0500, cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: >I would think a 3 pin voltage regulator would do nicely. They are made in fixed >and variable voltage varieties. If you can't find a fixed one, then use a >variable variety, either substitute the adjusting resistor (small) or use an >adjustable (potentiometer) resistor to find the right resistance till the >desired voltage is determined. A series regulator will dissipate the same power as an equivalent resistor, assuming the voltage drop is the same. You will need to heat sink the 3-terminal regulator, or else it will transition to a current limiting mode as it gets above its rated temperature. Make sure the application is within the ratings of the device. Rob- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Robert Cherney Home Phone: (410)465-5598 | |Ellicott City, Maryland e-mail: cherney@home.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:37:03 -0700 Subject: COZY: Re:Home Made Strobes From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) Sure appreciate all the suggestions. I ended up using 7805 5V voltage regulator with a heat sink I knabbed off of an old circuit board. Testing it now. Initially it is able to flash each 6 seconds. As time goes on, voltage drops to 1.5 and it takes longer between flashes. I'll try another 7805. If that doesn't help I'll see what happens when I improve heat sink. I also have a more massive 5v regulator I can try. Once again, thanks! -al wick 76% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:32:56 -0700 Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) On Wed, 13 May 1998 08:48:16 -0400 Paul writes: >>Anyone care to share the development costs? > >I'll belly up to the table with a 20% cost share in exchange for a set of >plans. Where do I send my $1.00. > I'd have to make you a full partner for $1. I think 10 cents would be more appropriate :-). On the serious side though, I did make a cad dwg of the circuit. So if you are interested in building your own using Jim Weir's article in March 90 kitplanes, I would be happy to send anyone cad file. You can then etch your own circiut board, plug in the components and cover your eyes. You can get board etch supplies at Radio shack. It's fun, cheap, and easy. Rainbow kit sounds pretty good too. I didn't know such a thing was available. For my purposes (remotely triggered), just using old instamatic camera flashes looks like it will work. More testing needed. Let's see, at 50 cents per flash device, I could line my entire fuselage with these. Might have to add another alternator, but do you think other traffic would spot me? Just kidding :-) -al wick 76% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. Building the last glass components. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: "norm" Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:48:09 -0400 the rainbow kits can be remotely triggered by omiting the trigger circuit and running an insulated wire to your trigger source, mine look like a commit flash, 1 bright flash (both units) and 1 of lesser intensity (both units), then it repeats. norm & monda cozy IV #202 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:36:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Home made strobe lights Al Wick writes Several issues concern me: 1: FAA has performance specifications for strobes, both intensity and visual angles. 2: Is the issue, other than costs, having strobes that look like they do the job, knowing its unlikely anyone will have the the equipment to prove their are not adequate, or the safety of your own backside, which means the very brightest eye catching flash sequence available. I definately go for my own backside, and wish the cometflash was available 6 years ago. At Sun N Fun Whelan told me they only supply the comet flash units. 3: Radio interference is also difficult with the strobes, after you get done building, even expert artists have problems with interference Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:37:48 -0500 From: Ken Reiter Subject: COZY:Over-voltage Protection/Relay Hello Group, Build as fast and correct as you can - Plane's performance is a :) - nothing like early morning over this great conutry's landscape in a plane that you built. N241KD now has 11 hours and have only minor adjustments on going - thank you Nat! As a LOW time pilot (100 hours total) the plane is GREAT to fly and the landings are getting smoother. They are NOT hard, the speeds are just higher than the 150 that I learned to fly in. Nat you and Burt have given us this REMARKABLE plane to build and I am thankful to you for continuing to support us and give us this ABILITY. It can not be easy but please continue!! Now a question to the group: How many of you flying have and don't have an over-voltage relay/protection and what is the make/model? I have a Zeftronic?? over-voltage relay installed and am have the relay trip without me being able to detect an over-voltage. ( Have had zef check and it tests ok) Thanks, Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:07:05 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: OOPS! mispelled the URL Several folk have asked about software to work our downloadable wirebook drawing packages. One list-server member suggested TurboCAD. I've looked at several suppliers and found a nicely priced version at Software.Net Turbocad 2d/3d V3.0 is available from: for $56.45 as of this date 6-29-98. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:06:42 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Thermocouple Information Cruising the Internet on thermocouples. Interested readers may wish to check out . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: "Fred I. Mahan" Subject: COZY: Fw: radio interference Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:11:27 -0400 Whoever posted the tidbit about radio interference from the RMI Micro Monitor, they now have a fix available for it. Fred in Florida ---------- > From: Ron Mowrer > To: mahan@digital.net > Subject: Re: radio interference > Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 10:31 AM > > Fred, > > This is not a common complaint, but there have been enough reports that we > have subbmitted and just received back a test unit with mods from an > RFI/EMI consultant. As soon as as parts are received, these mods will be > added to future units and an update kit will be available to current > customers that may have the problem. Mods are relatively simple such as > changing an imput ferrite filter to an inductor, changing a couple of > capacitor values and putting a RFI gasket around a hole in the back of the > case. > > Would you please identify our customer that posted the note so we can > advise him of the fix? > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > > Ron Mowrer > > > /^\ > /\/ \ Rocky Mountain Instrument > / RMI \ http://rkymtn.com > (307) 864-9300 (vox/fax) > -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:14:21 -0500 From: Robert and Carla Kittler Subject: COZY: Whelen lighting Someone, a couple of months ago, posted info regarding purchase of whelen lighting systems directly, at a significant cost saving. Looked for it but naturally can't find it now. Was wondering if anyone recalls and has the info readily available. Thanks in advance. Rob Kittler sn 589 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:35:52 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: #4 Terminal Lugs >>Forgot to mention I solder using a $2 bottle of solder paste, PLEEEEEeeeezzz don't use any form of soldering flux on electrical joints other than the flux that comes already inside electronic grade solder. Clean copper wires and/or tinned terminals solder up VERY nicely with no additional active chemistry. MOST if not all solder enhancers found in hardware stores contain chemistry that is or will become corrosive with time and when soldering large wires with lots of strands . . . the flux WILL get into the stranding beneath your solder joint. There are packaged fluxes for electronic service but you don't find them in hardware stores. I've been soldering things electrical together for over 40 years. Got rid of my first and only can of hardware store solder paste about 38 years ago when I opened up a project that had been in service about two years and found strange, white fuzzy stuff on the joints and under the insulation for the wires. > . . . . .60/40 solder >and a hand held butane torch I got at the hardware for $12 or so. There >are two types of torch--get the cheaper, less hot one that uses butane and >not another hotter welding gas--you don't need it. The solder flows >beautifully into every nook and cranny EVERY time and I remove excess flux >with a spray can of solder joint cleaner. These cleaners are typically designed for electronic service. The weaker ones use some alcohols while the stronger cleaners get really nasty with stuff like methyl-chloride. The artificial resins found in modern electronic solders doesn't need to be cleaned off but you can. I prefer to wipe the parts down with a rag dampened with MEK, Acetone, or lacquer thinner. You need less liquid to wipe and put fewer molecules of trash into the air. > . . . . The result is a very shiny joint indeed. Agreed . . . but the fluxes you find in hardware stores may change the appearance of the joint radically in a few months. > . . . By the way, I do crimp mechanically as well as solder. Okay but not necessary. A properly soldered joint is just as reliable as a properly crimped joint. I've published a technique for soldering large terminals on fat wires at: It's a big file (lots of photos). If anyone has trouble downloading and/or printing it, drop me a fax # and I'll send you a copy. >Gary V wrote: >Soldering? Ay caramba! We don't do no stinking soldering! Crimp them. >And I was a soldering process engineer. Given my druthers, I'd wish every builder to have every certified crimp tool he needs to install every terminal in his project. I've seen articles and witnessed too many attempts to "crimp" terminals with home-made and/or manufactured tools of the wrong type. There's nothing wrong with solder, it just takes some different skills . . . . skills that are not difficult to acquire. I been soldering "fat" terminals using the techniques described in the above article for over 37 years . . . haven't had one come loose or burn off yet . . . Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:29:01 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: #4 Terminal Lugs >Bob: I did electronic repair for about 6 years on computers back when >there were quite a few wires still on the boards. One of the things I >noticed was that if there were any movement of the wires, they ALWAYS broke >at the solder joint, like the heat from soldering had "heat hardened" the >copper, causing it to be less flexible. I also found out about the problem >with solder flux the hard way and threw it away. there are fluxes and then there are FLUXES . . . . see Gary Crane's most illuminating post . . . I've posted a copy of this thread at > . . . . Have you found any >problems with wires breaking next to the solder joint, or could it have >been my technique. Thanks >Art GlaStar #5289 > ANY wire that is crimped or soldered will break off right at the joint if not supported behind the joint. This is a feature built into the pre-insulated, diamond-grip (PIDG) by AMP and equivalent devices from other manufacturers. There's a sort of evil aura built up around soldered joints as being less reliable because of breakage at the joint. It isn't the joint's fault but the lack of insulation support behind the joint. Try crimping an un-insulated terminal to a small gage wire and you'll get the same results. With FAT wires, the stress levels are much lower and as I've written before, never had a FAT guy break off or burn away when installed per the referenced article. I've been diseminating that article in one form or another to hundreds of builders and I've had no reported difficulties with the technique. With small wires, PIDG terminals or solder + heatshrink will produce adequate joints. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 20:47:04 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Stuck starter contactors . . . ><< Beechcraft Barons and Bonanzas have had a 'starter engaged' light on the > panel for several years, and many have been added to older craft. A wire > from the starter relay ouput to a small lamp on the panel is all that is > needed. >> > >The checklist for the C-planes at the school were I teach part-time include a >check after starting that the starter is disengaged by turning off the >alternator side of the master switch and seeing if there is a strong charge >indication (from the starter being driven as a generator). Would that do the >job for us, too? This is a myth that has been given too much fertilizer . . . a stuck starter solenoid does indeed keep the motor spinning . . . however, over-running clutches in virtually all starters are absolutely necessary to prevent the engine from distroying the starter. Recall that cranking RPMs are about 500, during this time, the starter's armature is running at about it's design speed. Now, if you start the engine and throttle up to say 2500 rpm, if the starter were firmly geared to the engine, it would now be running 5x it's design speed . . . guarantee it's windings will come right out of the slots, gears strip, etc, etc,. If your starter contactor does stick -AND- your airplane is fitted with an ammeter, you will see higher than normal "charging" loads on an ammeter because the starter is connected directly to the battery and appears to the alternator as a severely discharged battery - - so of course the ammeter lays over harder. If you turn off the alternator, I'll guarantee you the ammeter will lay back to zero . . . or if its a minus-zero-plus battery ammeter, it will show a discharge if system goodies are on. Even if the starter contactor IS stuck, you'll get the same result. Whoever started this rumor has done his fellow flyers a terrible disservice because the "test" has no way to confirm contactor sticking. Indeed, the test will ALWAYS indicate a-not-stuck contactor. If inquiring minds really want to know, a starter engaged light on the panel is the best way. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:50:05 +1200 From: Tony Krzyzewski Subject: COZY: Re: Europa_Mail: Stuck starter contactors . . . And just for your information.... A starter active light is mandatory on all homebuilts flying in the UK. Tony --------------------------------------------------- Tony Krzyzewski tonyk@kaon.co.nz Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631 Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321 Auckland New Zealand Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/ and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/ ---------------------------------------------------- From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:30:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: COZY: OSH - BOSE >From last year OSH, the last years edition of Bose headsets were on our shopping list, they were very comfortable. This year we hurried over to Bose to see the latest. The pressure on top the head was too concentrated, (others were making similar comments) now headset upgrade from our series I Bose, which we like very much is not on our shopping list. If you dont't need for a while, wait, if you need now, there are used sets available, make sure they have had the RFI upgrade, without can get a light click when near a doppler radar (I think). From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:18:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Stuck starter contactors . . . I'm not sure a stuck starter will not cause damage. With the starter energized the gear will probably try to stay in the energized position, BUT its being turned faster than the starter can drive it. The helix (very course screw thread) will then be driven to a disengaged position, BUT when it get disengaged its no longer being driven toward disengagement, but now the starter is driving it into engagement. A tug of war ensues, with clashing gears. I don't have, but now think a small light, and maybe a buzzer with a delay is appropriate. Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 17:25:15 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: sticking starter contactors >Had a starter solonoid engage in flight about 20-30 min after takeoff while on >an ILS approach in MVFR/IFR. First indication was the radios went to heck. Contactor sticking is not a spontaneous activity . . . in the situation cited, I'll bet a steak dinner to a donut that the contactor stuck at the time the engine was started and continued until noticed by the pilot when the alternator (40-60 amps) and battery (25 a.h.) lost the tug-of-war with a powered up but free wheeling starter motor (60-100A?) and things went black . . . . A starter engaged light is SOOOoooooo simple to add, why not have one? Alternatively, adequate instrumentation of the electrical system would have revealed (1) bus voltage low because total loads exceeded the output capability of the alternator and/or (2) alternator output -or- battery ammeter pegged against the charg'n real hard stop for the duration of the flight. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 17:49:30 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >There was an article in kitplanes a few months back about how to build >your own strobes with stuff you can buy at radio shack. It was the issue >with the Lancair on the cover, I can get the date if anyone is >interested. The article raved about how easy they were to see. I've seen many articles over the years on do-it-yourself strobes. Please understand that the maximum light output that can be expected from any strobe, amateur built or otherwise is a function of the energy storage capacitor and the voltage to which it is charged between flashes. The formula is: Energy (joules) = Voltage Squared * Capacitance (farads)/2 If you have a 100 microFarad capacitor charged to 300 volts the potential energy is 4.5 joules. Note that I use the work "potential" . . . the REAL light output is a further function of flash tube efficiency and series resistances in the flash tube current path that throw away some of the energy stored as heat instead of light. Most of the "do-it-yourself" articles I've seen are really puny in the stored energy and light output department. Another issue arrises with the strobe tubes recommended in the articles: They're generally designed for photoflash applications . . . this might be 4 to 40 joule flashes . . . perhaps a few thousand flashes for the lifetime of the camera. Now bang this critter at a full 10+ joules (the smallest of commercial strobes found on most aircraft) at 1 flash per second and you get 3,600 flashes per flight hour. Tests I've run on many off-the-shelf photoflash tubes show the device is down to 50% of original light output in 5-20 hours. If you'd like to match current certified aircraft strobe requirements, it's tougher yet. I'm thinking about doing an article on building your own power supply for off the shelf aircraft tubes and fixtures. You'd save perhaps 25% on the overall cost of the system and spend quite a few hours doing it. I've watched the strobe light market for years with an eye toward competing and I can tell you, it's NOT an attractive market. That's why you'll probably never see a strobe system offered from the 'Connection. At current prices from 'certified' suppliers, I can't justify it. I know they SEEM expensive but try to duplicate the performance for less money with a new design and the catalog prices get pretty attractive. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 18:42:55 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: Stuck starter contactors . . . >>In a message dated 98-08-07 04:58:33 EDT, nuckolls@aeroelectric.com writes: >> >> If inquiring minds really want to know, a starter engaged light >> on the panel is the best way. >> >> > >Bob, > >How does one rig up something like this? > Install a 5-amp, inline fuse in a piece of 22AWG wire so that the fuse is 6" or less away from the wire's attachment to the starter motor's main power feed terminal (usually a 5/16" treaded stud . . . sometimes 3/8"). Extend wire into the cabin and attach to any handy lamp fixture fitted with a 12 volt lamp. Helps if this fixture is right in front of pilot. One side of the lamp is fed with the wire from the starter, the other side of the lamp is grounded to airframe or electrical system ground. No press to test needed . . . you should watch and EXPECT the lamp to light during cranking . . . a test of the lamp's functionality. Of course, as the starter switch is released, the lamp should go dark . . . Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 10:19:06 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: >>There was an article in kitplanes a few months back about how to build >>your own strobes with stuff you can buy at radio shack. It was the issue >>with the Lancair on the cover, I can get the date if anyone is >>interested. The article raved about how easy they were to see. >I've seen many articles over the years on do-it-yourself strobes. >Please understand that the maximum light output that can be >expected from any strobe, amateur built or otherwise is a >function of the energy storage capacitor and the voltage to which >it is charged between flashes. The formula is: >Energy (joules) = Voltage Squared * Capacitance (farads)/2 >snip I recall the article as well. If memory serves (no garantees), the writer did NOT use flash tubes and capacitor discharge. Was a seemingly simple method of using 50 Watt Halogen bulb switched on and off via simple 555 timer and, if I remember correctly, a power FET. Drawback in my mind would be the heat of 50 Watts through the FET. Duty cycle would make it cooler and a heat sink would certainly be required. The bulbs come in a number of 12 volt flavors from low voltage track-lighting to H-3 auto headlight bulbs. Also available in lesser or greater wattage ratings. Sure seemed like a simple solution to the very high cost of flash tubes and capacitor discharge power supplies; hombuilt or store-bought. Might be worth investigating. I have no way of determining the lumens (candlepower) output of these things. Anyone know if such an animal would meet the FAA requirements for visibility? Larry Schuler MK-IV plans #500 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Peter A. Coffie" Subject: COZY: strobes FWIW strobing any filament bulb will cause its demise at an early age unless a couple of things are done.. (the main problem is thermal shock to the filament) If the bulb is pulsed, you must make sure the "off" voltage is still about 1/3 the "on" voltage ... this prevents the bulb from cooling too much and extends the bulb life. By regulating the "on" voltage to 1/2 a volt below the rated voltage for the bulb, you also extend the bulb life. MOSFETS will handle the power with a good heat sink ( and have thermal run away protection built in ) IMSMC, strobes are rated at approx 400W (very brief / high voltage) Peter A. Coffie Director - Applications and Support Workplace Technologies Corporation 135 Michael Cowpland Drive. KANATA, ONTARIO, K2M 2E9 V (613) 599-5046 F (613) 599-5047 H (613) 832-3115 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:11:38 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:01:18 >To: rv-list@matronics.com >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >In-Reply-To: <9808109027.AA902764935@cellular.uscc.com> > > >>I recall the article as well. If memory serves (no garantees), the writer >>did NOT use flash tubes and capacitor discharge. >> >>Was a seemingly simple method of using 50 Watt Halogen bulb switched on and >>off via simple 555 timer and, if I remember correctly, a power FET. > > This would be a clone of the AeroFlash incandescant fixtures used > on thousands of Cessnas since about 1967. I was at Cessna when the > roating beacon was being replaced with the flashing incandescant > lamp . . . wasn't impressed. The fade-in-fade-out characteristic > of the filament lamp was (IMHO) less attention getting than the > sharp pulse of light you got from the rotating mirror assembly > of then popular 36 watt beacons. Further, the lamp used then > (and still) is 150 watts . . . about 12+ amps!!!! We had to add > a resistor to the system so that when the lamp was off, we were > dumping an equivalent amount of power into the resistor to make > the load on the system more constant . . . pulsing of the panel > lights at night would drive you nuts. > >>Drawback in my mind would be the heat of 50 Watts through the FET. Duty >>cycle would make it cooler and a heat sink would certainly be required. > > No problem these days. Power FET's with .007 ohms on resistance > are quite common. A 12-amp load makes these devices disipate > only 1 watt! Easily handled with very small heatsink. A feature > of one of our turn-key wiring kits will inlcude solid state relays > for nav, landing, taxi lites and pitot heat . . . no heavy currents > through panel mounted switches. > >>The bulbs come in a number of 12 volt flavors from low voltage >>track-lighting to H-3 auto headlight bulbs. Also available in lesser or >>greater wattage ratings. > >> >>Might be worth investigating. I have no way of determining the lumens >>(candlepower) output of these things. Anyone know if such an animal would >>meet the FAA requirements for visibility? > > Given that FAR23 requirements do not apply to amateur built > airplanes, I think a 150W halogen lamp pertched on top > of your vertical fin under a baby food jar might impress > your inspector enough to get you signed off. You have > a strong precedent in the Cessna experience. Plan on > needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from > pulsing when this size lamp is flashed. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:46:32 -0400 From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: RE: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Bob Nuckolls wrote: Snip> > Plan on needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from pulsing when >this size lamp is flashed. >Wouldn't it be simpler to use two lights one on the left wing and one on the >right. The Wiring could be configured such that the dummy load for one was >the light of the other i.e. one light is always on. The only voltage >fluctuation, apart from the high frequency transient, would be caused by the >differing hot to cold resistance of the filament. > >Isn't there a commercially available unit used by North American Police cars >that already does this. You see them frequently if you drive 20 MPH above the >speed limit :-). > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Phillip Johnson Tel (613) 253 2229 (H) Ottawa, (613) 599 3280 ext. 232 Ontario, Cozy MKIV RG #30 Canada. Subaru EG33 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Bob . . . > AeroElectric Connection > > //// > (o o) > ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== > < If you continue to do > > < What you've always done > > < You will continue to be > > < What you've always been. > > ================================= > From: lschuler@cellular.uscc.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 15:32:50 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: strobes Peter A. Coffie wrote: >FWIW strobing any filament bulb will cause its demise at an early age >unless a couple of things are done.. (the main problem is thermal shock >to the filament) >If the bulb is pulsed, you must make sure the "off" voltage is still about >1/3 the "on" voltage ... this prevents the bulb from cooling too much and >extends the bulb life. By regulating the "on" voltage to 1/2 a volt below >the rated voltage for the bulb, you also extend the bulb life. Wouldn't duty cycle play a roll as well? Just thinkin' in print... Larry Schuler Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:25:12 -0500 From: Mo Brooks Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Bob; We sell a few thousand strobes every year for Fire Alarm Systems. They can go to 75 Candela at 12V and 110 Candela at 24V. <> .250A. They are about 1-1/8 x 4" and wire up like a normal polarized light bulb. ( No seperate power supply). A seperate module can be added to flash all in unison. 1hz flashrate. Some adaptation will be needed but should be no hill for a stepper. We test 110 Candela by checking whether or not the flash can be seen with closed eyes at 10' during the day. Cost is around $50 Ea. Module about the same. If there's an interest I'll pursue the mounting a little further. Mo Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > >>Might be worth investigating. I have no way of determining the lumens > >>(candlepower) output of these things. Anyone know if such an animal would > >>meet the FAA requirements for visibility? > > > > Given that FAR23 requirements do not apply to amateur built > > airplanes, I think a 150W halogen lamp pertched on top > > of your vertical fin under a baby food jar might impress > > your inspector enough to get you signed off. You have > > a strong precedent in the Cessna experience. Plan on > > needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from > > pulsing when this size lamp is flashed. > From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:46:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . I'm not intrested in fooling inspector, I'm interested in being seen in the air, Ez's are hard enough to see, at best. Numerous times Terry Schubert have tried to find each other at 4000' over the Huron River and Lake Erie. The point is easy to find, but the Ez not. Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:50:09 -0400 From: "C. W. Wright" Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . > Drawback in my mind would be the heat of 50 Watts through the FET. Duty > cycle would make it cooler and a heat sink would certainly be required. > If you switch it on/off with a 20% duty cycle, you'll only deliver 10 watts average power to the bulb. The electrical energy would be: Pj = Voltage * Current * Time_ion/Time_off Bottom line: Stick with the aircraft strobes. > > > T-- > PROFOUND INSIGHTS FROM COMEDIAN STEVEN WRIGHT > I fly way too fast to worry about cholesterol. > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 07:17:18 est From: "Smythe_Donald" Subject: COZY: Re[2]: do it yourself strobes . . . To All, I feel like I might have something to do with the discussion on Strobes and FAR requirements. All of a sudden I'm seeing comments that "FAR 23 doesn't apply". I must admit, I'm still a little confused about the FAA requirements but, we must have something to follow. If the FAR 23 really doesn't apply, then what does? If we proceed with the thought that FAR 23 doesn't apply then the next thing you'll see is seat belts made of Poly rope and who knows what else. Someone on the list once said that "WE", the Kitfox builder, must strive to outclass the big boys and their certified aircraft. I go through Government inspections all the time. There must be a "Spec" to go by or a deficiency isn't a deficiency. Opinions are not acceptable. How does an FAA rep or DAR inspect an experimental aircraft with no "Spec" to follow? This whole inspection thing is starting to sound like an FAA "political" hoop with no thought of a real "inspection" in mind. Sorry, Soap box time Don Smythe ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Given that FAR23 requirements do not apply to amateur built > airplanes, I think a 150W halogen lamp pertched on top > of your vertical fin under a baby food jar might impress > your inspector enough to get you signed off. You have > a strong precedent in the Cessna experience. Plan on > needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from > pulsing when this size lamp is flashed. Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:16:59 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . >Yes, > ... and old VWs with 6 volt lighting system and DIM headlights are >still legal, but would you want to drive one on a windy, dark road at >night??? I'm just surprised that the standard seems to be "boy, >that's bright!" when observed inside the hangar. These lights are designed >for being seen from miles away, so at least do your eyeball checks from the >other end of the runway. Actually, older aircraft don't need any strobes, >but try spotting them in the traffic pattern at night at any metropolitan >airport. Yeeeaaahhhh BUT. The increase from 100 to 400 CP in light output is not all it's made up to be. Fortunately, the eye and supporting firmware is a very logarithmic sensing device - fortunate for us who use them or they'd be VERY hard to use over the range of bright sunlight to starlight illumination levels. In a base 10 logarithmic scale, the increase from 100 to 400 would result in only a few percent increase in perceived intensity . . . I forget what the average human eye was scaled at but I think it's response curve is steeper than a base 10 curve. Suffice it to say that standing side by side at a couple miles distance, you would be able to pick out the 400 CP device over a 100 CP device. However, the notion that it's 4x more likely to get somebody's attenion is pure wishing. The annals of aviation tragedy are full of cases where airplanes come together simply beause two or more pilots had their heads down. Whether your strobes are 10, 100 or 400 CP, they won't be seen if nobody is looking for them. This is one objection I have to things like moving maps, engine analyzers, etc. Neat devices from a performance/technolgy perspective but they can intrude in dangerous ways upon a pilot's responsability to fly the airplane and avoid hitting things. IMHO, change to strobe rules was but another example of a group of rule makers sitting around the table saying, "okay guys, what shall we do THIS week?" On the face of it, they appear to be doing good things. In reality, airplanes will continue to hit things for reasons that regulation and punishment cannot affect. Heads up, enjoy the scenery, save systems diagnosis and repairs for the hangar, and watch for they guy with the strobes built from an article in a magazine . . . if you're looking for him, you WILL see him. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:49:21 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . At 04:46 PM 8/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob Nuckolls wrote: Snip> >> Plan on needing the dummy load to keep the system voltage from pulsing when >>this size lamp is flashed. >Wouldn't it be simpler to use two lights one on the left wing and one on the >>right. The Wiring could be configured such that the dummy load for one was >>the light of the other i.e. one light is always on. The only voltage >>fluctuation, apart from the high frequency transient, would be caused by the >>differing hot to cold resistance of the filament. Tried that . . . it WOULD have been nice. Problem was to control the spheres of visability so that both lights were never visible at the same time. If you could see them both, then from a distance beyond the visual accuity limits for resolving them as a pair of lights, they appeared as a single, always illuminated lamp . . . i.e. flashing stopped. Turned out to be such a hassle that the resitor went in instead. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:10:46 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Re[2]: do it yourself strobes . . . Don,

    re "If we proceed with the thought that FAR 23 doesn't apply then the next thing you'll see is seat belts made of Poly rope and who knows what else."

    I agree. That kind of thinking is what killed many people when ultra-light airpcraft came into being some years ago.  It may have been legal, but it was not very smart.

    It is my opinion that if one wants his aircraft certified for night flight, it would be wise to install a certified lighting system.  FAR part 91 requires it and we are not exempt from that part when flying an experimental aircraft at night.  Same applies for IFR flight.

    I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented.  My Whelan power source is 18 years old (I used it on a LEZ and now on my MKIV) and it has never missed a flash....I doubt any of us could build a system from scrap parts with such reliability.  The power source was stored for some 8 years and I was very pleased when it worked on 12 volts after a short recharge at 9 volts as per Whelan instructions.  It's a good system.

dd From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 22:51:18 1998 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with ESMTP id NAA00429 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26569 for cozy_builders-list; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:44:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from DTC.NET (dtc.net [206.242.217.15]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26564 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:44:21 -0400 Received: from p88.ts1.dtc.net (p88.ts1.dtc.net [205.183.130.88]) by DTC.NET (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA07591 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:48:12 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980815103307.43af9ea4@dtc.net> X-Sender: nuckolls@dtc.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:33:07 To: "Cozy List" From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . In-Reply-To: <35D588D3.4BF1793B@earthlink.net> References: <9807119028.AA902845123@mailme.snews.spear.navy.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" X-UIDL: 1a4812fd4969df501d980865470949d2 > re "If we proceed with the thought that FAR 23 doesn't apply then >the next thing you'll see is seat belts made of Poly rope and who knows >what else." This is the attitude that makes the FAA so successful at what they do. As soon as we elect anyone to public office, they're in close proximity to a contageous disease, "The public is illiterate, ignorant, and incapable of making wise choices in their lives. It is up to us (becaue we won a popularity contest) to look out for them lest they hurt themselves." It doesn't wash. Experimental airplanes have no higher accident rates than certified iron. Canada is even allowing certain certified ships to be "de-certified" and become the sole responsability of the owner to maintain and modify as he sees fit. > I agree. That kind of thinking is what killed many people when >ultra-light airpcraft came into being some years ago. It may have been >legal, but it was not very smart. But theres a difference. We're not dealing with 35 mph, kit-kites. We have deep roots in certified aviation. We have an apppreciation for the GOOD things (there are some) that come out of bureaucrating regulation thinking. We read, participate on list servers, observe other people's successes and when in doubt, do what we're familiar with. Amateur built aviation has few things in common with recreational air vehicles and the folk who are attracted to them. > I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's >already been invented. So do a LOT of other folks in aviation . . . that's why certified ships a still flying behind 1960's technology engines in 1950's airframe designs. Independence KS is the jurasic park of aviation, they're down there cloning brand new, 40 year old airplanes. > . . . .My Whelan power source is 18 years old (I used >it on a LEZ and now on my MKIV) and it has never missed a flash....I >doubt any of us could build a system from scrap parts with such >reliability. The power source was stored for some 8 years and I was >very pleased when it worked on 12 volts after a short recharge at 9 >volts as per Whelan instructions. It's a good system. They are indeed . . . but I wouldn't discourage anyone for a minute for looking at alternatives. When the guys at Bell Labs got the first seminconductor device to "amplify" in 1948 there were plenty of folk who voiced the opinion that it would never amount to anything . . . Geesh, if my grandfather had just bought some stock . . . I could be doing all this just for fun instead of trying to make a living at it. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:30:59 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Re: do it yourself strobes . . . Bob,

    re "I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented."  (my quote)

  "So do a LOT of other folks in aviation . . . that's why certified
  ships a still flying behind 1960's technology engines in 1950's
  airframe designs. Independence KS is the jurasic park of aviation.." (your quote)

    It's easy to get misconstrued posting a message on any forum...
what I meant by "I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented" is that rubber tires, radios, gyros, circuit breakers, fuses, and nav strobe lights have been invented.  Sure, one could somehow reinvent these necessary items for an experimental airplane, but what for?

    Willie Messerschmitt invented the leading edge slat on the Bf109 in 1936.  That system is still being used today on many jet aircraft.  Just 'cause it's old technology does not mean it is no good.  North American Aviation did not bother to reinvent the slat in time for the F-86 and Korea, they simply borrowed it from Germany.

    That's what I mean when I say, "I consider it a waste of time and money re-inventing anything that's already been invented."

dd  From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 22:51:10 1998 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (betaweb.com [206.43.209.18]) by strato-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with ESMTP id SAA05462 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA10595 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:02:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com using -f Received: from wichita.dtc.net (dtc.net [206.242.217.15]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10590 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:02:06 -0400 Received: from p91.ts1.dtc.net (p91.ts1.dtc.net [205.183.130.91]) by wichita.dtc.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA12861; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:05:56 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980814165704.22ef641a@dtc.net> X-Sender: nuckolls@dtc.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:57:04 To: "RV List" From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: RV-List: Odyssey Dry Cell Battery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980814110927.4117fe86@dtc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" X-UIDL: 50bc90fe55135092a3e8c7cf85517aa9 >Any opinions on the new Odyssey dry cell battery Van's is now carrying? > >Claimed advantages: >7 lbs. lighter than comparable RG25 >8 year design life, 3-8 year service life (2 year factory replacement >warranty) >Long storage life, maintains 50% charge after two years >100% deep cycle capacity > >Also wondering how it fits into Bob N./Aeroelectric design philosophy >(which I intend to base the majority of my electrical system on). Found this battery on the web. I'll invite you all to check out which is the Hawker Energy Products home page. These are the folk that took over the Gates Energy Products line of RG batteries dating back over 20 years. If anyone should have a leg up on this market's leading edge in technology, it should be Hawker. The spec sheets for the Odyssey line are downloadable from . The most noteworthy improvements are deep cycle life of 400-500 cycles. Their earlier Genesis batteries (as are other manufacturers) are rated at 80-100 cycles. Charging recommendations are found at: and I note they are unchanged from the Genesis recommendations of 14.4 - 14.7 volts for "cyclic" or "fast charge" service and 13.6 - 13.8 volts for "floating" or "standby" service. I'm a little unhappy to see them call these "drycell" batteries, they MUST have water in the electrolyte, but like all other RG batteries, it's contained in 80-90% saturated glass mats which, if you open the battery up, appear to be dry. The 7 pound weight savings noted in the orignal post is a bit misleading . . . If you check the data sheet you'll see that there are two batteries in the 13-14 pound range that will deliver a "reserve capacity" of 27-28 minutes. The notes for the data sheet say this is to support a 25A load down to 10.5 volts. Extrapolating this out: 25 x 28 is 700 ampere-minutes divided by 60 yields 11.6 ampere-hours at the 25 amp rate (impressive by the way). The next battery size up is rated at 24 pounds to deliver 22 A.H. at the 25 amp rate. These weight to capacity ratios are right in line with the rest of the industry. If Van's battery is 7 pounds lighter, it has to be that he's offering a 12 AH battery in place of a 22 AH battey . . . a perfectly good thing to do in light of the advanced performance of RG over flooded technologies. B&C has offered batteries in the 15-17 AH range at 15 pounds for several years. The 7-milliohm internal resistance values cited for the 12 AH battery tracks along with the industry pretty well too. I noted also that they speak of a metal jacket on these batteries . . . I wonder if they've figured out a way to do lined steel cases to replace the more expensive injection molded plastic cases. I'll have to dig around and ask about this. All told, nothing really earth shaking here, the King of RG Batteries is holding a lead with what appears to be an improvement in cycle-life and chronological life. Performance in the market place has yet to be gaged. If you were going to bet on anyone's success, you could do worse than backing Hawker. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:50:45 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: Odyssey Dry Cell Battery At 09:49 PM 8/14/98 EDT, you wrote: >Bob what would be the "street price" of this battery? >Steve > Didn't find any prices published on the net. I think Van is asking about $160 for it. Not bad IF the battery lives up to its life claims. Problem is, the battery isn't old enough to have a service history so the ratings are based on laboratory testing and analysis. Hawker knows what they're doing so the odds are in their favor. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:57:44 -0700 Subject: COZY: Super-inexpensive strobes From: alwick@juno.com (ok How) I finally chose my strobe package for my Cozy. They cost $3 a pop. Look more attractive than the $300 ones (low profile). I got mine at ol' Radio Shack. They have more than one type, #49-220 is best. Seems they are discontinuing their "personal alarms". Strobe just keeps going and going. Uses (3) 1.25v batteries, but only 1 battery powers the strobe. I'm happy with light intensity (enough to blind me anyway). If I wish, I can wire it to make use of the alarm function when someone touches my plane(Oshkosh special). What a deal. I'll probably hard wire it instead of using battery. Gonna have to get a white cane. All I see are yellow spots:-) -al wick 83% comp. Cozy MkIV sn 389 with stock Subaru 2.5 engine. Computerized cockpit. Done building components, now installing winglets. Expect completion date 4-30-99. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:00:38 -0400 From: Bill Theeringer Subject: COZY: Strobes Bary; It is highly unlikely that the tube is at fault. If it flashes at all it is probably good. However the capacitors that are charged up in a flasher circuit are critical to the total energy and time constant of the flasher circuit. They also do go bad over time. If they have set on a shelf somewhere for a time they can become polarized. If they are bad you might try to resurrect them by running the flasher for a long time. If they don't respond to running, the good news is they are fairly cheap. A couple of dollars. Just replace it and I think you will be ok. If that works, replace it in both units. Cheap insurance. Bill Theeringer N29EZ See our award winning Long EZ with Jim Newmans excellent retractable gear at http://www.flash.net/~infaero/infgear.htm Composite Aircraft Accessories HOME: 805-964-5454, SHOP: 805-964-5453 E Mail: Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@Compuserve.com PO Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:05:18 -0500 From: Kent Ashton Subject: Re: COZY: Alternator Mods. Will Chorley wrote: > Does anyone know: > a) If it is really necessary to remove the regulator from a standard > Nipon Denso type alternator and use an external linear regulator to > avoid switching noise from the standard unit? I used a small Nippodenso alternator off a Mitsubitshi and one of B & C's voltage regulators to get the crowbar overvoltage feature. It shuts off the power to the alternator field in the event of an overvoltage. I think that's the important feature. Not sure about the noise question. I had an alternator shop snip out the original internal voltage regulator and rewire it. > b) If so, what do you remove from under the covers, and what do you > connect to what after you've performed the surgery? Bit hard to describe here, but they installed two little wires where the little internal voltage regulator was located. One wire connected the Field input to the circuit leading to one of the brushes and a second wire which connected the second brush to ground. So it's now a one-wire alternator and the B&C regulator varies the Field current to control output. Don't hold me to that. I'm just a hog looking at a wristwatch when it comes to that stuff. ---Kent A. From: mbeduhn@juno.com Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:00:46 -0500 Subject: COZY: Audio for Video Camera I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone jacks? maybe one of you electrical experts help me out on this. Thanks Mark Beduhn Cozy IV N494CZ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: "DL Davis" Subject: RE: COZY: Audio for Video Camera Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:24:48 -0400 Nope, the headphone outputs shouldn't be connected directly to the video input. You will get severely distorted audio because the headphone outputs are far too large compared to a microphone input that the camcorder expects. I made a simple interface with about a 50 to 1 voltage divider which worked real well for me. I put some background music in the intercom, and I get everything recorded with the video, including the radio traffic, passenger voices, and background music (Top Gun works great!). This makes the video recordings MUCH more interesting. The voltage divider circuit can be made with something like a 50k and a 1k resistor, connected in series from the headphone output to ground, with the 1k resistor on the ground side. Connect the video input to the the center tap, between resistors, and ground. Make two circuits if you have a stereo intercom and a stereo camcorder. I used some 1/8 watt resistors that were so small that I could just solder them inside the headphone plug on the cable that connects to the intercom... no external boxes or parts. Just a headphone plug on one end and a stereo mini plug on the side that connects to the camcorder. Good luck. Dewey > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com > [mailto:owner-cozy_builders@betaweb.com]On Behalf Of mbeduhn@juno.com > Sent: Monday, September 14, 1998 6:01 PM > To: canard-aviators@canard.com; cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Audio for Video Camera > > > I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm > not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone > jacks? maybe one of you electrical experts help me out on this. > > Thanks > > Mark Beduhn > Cozy IV N494CZ > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:50:14 -0400 From: Rob Cherney Subject: Re: COZY: Audio for Video Camera At 05:00 PM 9/14/98 -0500, mbeduhn@juno.com wrote: >I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm >not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone >jacks? maybe one of you electrical experts help me out on this. Hi Mark: I made a three-way cable to tap into a standard intercom. I used a 1/4" in-line phone jack (your headphones plug into this), a 1/4" phone plug (plugs into your intercom), and a 1/8" stereo phone plug (to plug into the camera mic input). The 1/4" plug/jack allows me to pick up the headphone signal; it is wired straight through. For the microphone circuit, I make a voltage divider to generate a mic-level signal from the headphone signal. The "hot" (headphone) side of the divider is a 10 kohm resistor. The ground (mic) side is a 33 ohm resistor. Both are 1/8 or 1/4 watt varieties. I have tied the ring and the tip of the mic connector together to convert mono to stereo, but if you have a stereo intercom, you will need to duplicate the left and right circuits and not connect them together. The resistors are small enough to fit in the shell of the connectors. I put the 33 ohm resistor in the mic plug and the 10 kohm resistor in the intercom plug. Now, I'm not sure if the resistor values are optimum, but the cameras I used it on had no difficulty in automatically adjusting to the input level. It worked fine on both a Sony and a Canon camcorder. If you need more details, just write or call. Rob- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Robert Cherney Home Phone: (410)465-5598 | |Ellicott City, Maryland e-mail: cherney@home.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: N6lk@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:14:06 EDT Subject: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Audio for Video Camera The simplest way to get audio to your video camera: Buy a very small external mic for your video camera at Radio Shack. They are about the size of a small bean and cost less than $20. Then attach the wire to the video camera and stick the mic inside your headset ear cup . You will not know its there and it will "hear" everything you hear, intercom, com, music. It works very well and is quick and easy. The bigest problem you will have is forgetting to turn the mic power (battery powered) on, or off and running the battery down so it won't work the next time you go to use it. Good luck. Life is short, fly fast. Rob Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:11:17 -0700 From: Perry Mick Subject: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Audio for Video Camera On some intercoms a jack can be wired in for "entertainment in" to run a cassette or cd player into your intercom system. It would be best to use this if it is available. mbeduhn@juno.com wrote: > > [The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] > I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm > not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone > jacks? Maybe one of you electrical experts can help me out on this. > > Thanks > > Mark Beduhn > Cozy IV N494CZ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For details on sponsors of this list, copyrights, and how to remove > yourself from this list, please visit: > > http://www.canard.com/ca-ending.html > > (c) 1997,1998 Canard Aviators. support@canard.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:31:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] Audio for Video Camera On 09/15/98 14:11:17 you wrote: > >On some intercoms a jack can be wired in for "entertainment in" to run a >cassette or cd player into your intercom system. It would be best to >use this if it is available. > >mbeduhn@juno.com wrote: >> >> [The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] >> I want to hook up the audio on my video camera to my intercom, but I'm >> not sure how to do it. Can I connect the camera to one of the headphone >> jacks? Maybe one of you electrical experts can help me out on this. >> >> Thanks >> >> Mark Beduhn >> Cozy IV N494CZ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >> For details on sponsors of this list, copyrights, and how to remove >> yourself from this list, please visit: >> >> http://www.canard.com/ca-ending.html >> >> (c) 1997,1998 Canard Aviators. support@canard.com >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > I have a Flightcom 403D intercom. It has inputs with the following priorities: 1: Aircraft Radios - Always hear the controller, VOR, ADF, and marker Beacons. 2: People talking Voice actuated Mikes. Can Isolate pilot from passengers. 3: Stereo Entertainment - we use a tape walkman, the headphone stereo output connects directly. Some use a CD walkman. Have a radio width x 3" high glove box, the walkman is stored there. Just lovely with the Bose's and stereo at 12,000' in smooth air. Have the Bose built-in interfaces so don't have to worry about turning off batteries. Also have conventional headphone jacks. The intercom has a clearance recorder, but almost never use it. The controller expects you to read back immediately, and at that time you are supposed to understand the clearance, if not ask, or readback is corrected! From: mbeduhn@juno.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:36:11 -0500 Subject: COZY: Audio to Camcorder Thanks for all of the suggestions on hooking my camcorder to my intercom. Since I have some small microphones laying around I will try putting one in my earcup and see how that sounds. If that doesn't work good enough I will try the voltage divider circuit. Mark Beduhn P.S. I accidentally deleted the note that someone sent me asking if I will be at Rough River. Yes, I plan to be there with my family, and camp by my plane. Hey Vance...do you want to stop by Conway and fly the rest of the way together? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:46:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel Mount it center top of canopy on a piece of 1/2" alum. tubing. Run a 1/4" conduit tube from near hinge to the top for lighting. From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:41:22 -0500 Alan, You do have to be concerned about locating any metal (iron) objects or any electrical objects near the compass. Some people hang the compass from the canopy, but this was not a pleasing location for me. So what I did was to locate the compass at the upper left corner of the instrument panel, and surround it with only air operated instruments (AS, ALT, and ROC) And of course I used only brass screws in the panel, and I tested anything that I was going to locate near the compass (like canopy latch) by holding it in its location first, to see if it affected the compass, before mounting it. This may have resulted in a different orientation than your Warrior or Katana, but it solved the problem of keeping the compass off the canopy or mounted somewhere other than the panel. There is no "standard" location of experimental airplanes. Regards, Nat ---------- > From: Alan Wirbisky > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Compass Location in Panel > Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 5:06 PM > > I'm getting ready to put a few holes in my instrument panel (I'm still in > chapter 4) and am wondering the following : > > Should I be concerned about the placement of the compass in proximity to an > electric gyro ? I want to put a turn-bank indicator in its "normal" > position (normal for a guy who flies a Warrior and a Katana) which is lower > left in the main cluster. That'll put it fairly close to the magnetic > compass, if I put it in the plans location. Are there concerns for magnetic > interference ? I always thought the compass should be as far away from > anything metal, let alone spinning magnets. > > Are there any "better locations" that people have come up with ? > > Thanks. Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:23:26 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel Alan, re "Should I be concerned about the placement of the compass in proximity to an electric gyro?" Probably. I fly a big airplane for a living with lots of electric gizmos and the mag compass is mounted in the wall above and behind the pilot seats. (They conveniently provide a small fold down mirror on the instrument panel to look at it, which we never do.) In my LEZ I had it on the canopy rail - it worked well. In the Cozy I've mounted it just forward of the throttle quadrant on the center panel. Might be a spot to consider. I have the electric gear switch and speed brake switch there also but neither seems to interfere with its indication. (What really bugs me is that I fly out of very busy feeder airport - lots of airplanes and several FBO's - but no compass rose on the field to swing it, so I've just compared it to the runway heading on take off and it seems quite accurate.) Just a thought on your plan to install electric gyros...they work great but only so long as you have a good altenator and battery. (Big airplanes have 3 backups) I've been thinking much about a truly redundant affordable IFR panel for a small airplane and feel the standard vacuum system is OK but backed up with a good electric powered auto pilot. Something to keep the wings level, i.e., the vacuum gyros or the autopilot, while the pilot finds terra firma. The notion that "partial panel" will save your butt in hard IFR is nuts. I can do it in smooth air, just barely, but throw in a little turbulence,rain, and ATC work, and it's trouble big time. It's a great place to get vertigo to boot. You don't know if your should believe your senses or a flopping turn and bank and a whiskey compass and it's turning idiosyncrasies... Just my 2 cents worth... dd From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:37:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: COZY: Compass Location in Panel On 09/21/98 23:37:54 you wrote: > >Just my $.005 - I wouldn't even think about cutting holes in the >panel until much later in your project. You'll change your mind many >many times as to what you want in the panel, and avionics will evolve >through several more generations before you need to start mounting >stuff. > > > >Jim Hocut >jhocut@mindspring.com > > > > > Agreed, also as time marches on, there is new equipment coming out, and you probably want some. When it is finally the last moment to layout and cut, include a wish list, if unable to afford all at the moment. Include the cutouts for the wish list. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:55:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel Domeier writes I don't know of a compass with backward markings, a mirror would be confusing, and its important enough to read correctly. Friday night I was coming back to Cleveland from Ann Arbor, Mich. Since it was dark, (CAVU) I had filed IFR to ensure radar contact all the way home. Was climbing at best angle (nose quite high) to give best chance getting back to departure runway if need be. Detroit approach questioned my heading. Apparently the directional gyro had presessed (spelling) about 20 degrees. With the compass card level and the housing at a healthy angle, the numbers weren't readable. Leveling briefly wouldn't do the job either, since northerly turning error (heading was about 150) would have caused inacurracies as the plane accellerated. Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:07:13 -0800 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel The notion that "partial panel" will save your >butt in hard IFR >is nuts. I can do it in smooth air, just barely, but throw in a little >turbulence,rain, >and ATC work, and it's trouble big time. It's a great place to get >vertigo to boot. You don't know if your should believe your senses or a >flopping turn and bank and a whiskey >compass and it's turning idiosyncrasies... > > Just my 2 cents worth... > >dd I couldn't agree more, David. I commuted by air for eight years, and flew some IFR. I had two vacuum pump failures during that time, and one that put me on partial panel very briefly. I can honestly say that my GPS was much more useful than a whiskey compass at maintaining or turning to an assigned heading. I replaced it early on with a precision vertical card compass. It has been trouble free, and is just about as easy to fly by as a gyro compass. I learned in airplanes that had edge-viewed dg's, but I never adjusted to that type of format. Instead of bashing myself secretly for being a dunce who was unable to visualize things easily in that format, I just switched to the format that made sense to my brain. Bingo. No more problems. Which is more important in the bouncy soup... to know where you are pointed, or to know how to do math quickly and accurately in your head, under stress? If my life depended on the latter ability, I'd probably be dead. I like simplicity and redundancy! --Howard Rogers, 650-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:09:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel Howard Rogers writes Not permitted in Canada IFR! Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:25:55 -0800 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Compass Location in Panel >Howard Rogers writes > >Not permitted in Canada IFR! That's good to know. If I ever fly up there, I will have to install a whiskey compass. I don't know Canadian regs, but I'll bet there is no rule against "ALSO" having a vertical card on board, if you get my drift. --Howard Rogers, 650-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:39:01 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Audio mixer >I want to connect two radio's together so that I can switch to either for >transmit and receive, with the option to receive on both. I know audio >panels are available commercially, but they usually contain Markers ADF etc >which I do not need, not to mention the cost. >The only problem I have encountered, is feeding the two audio outputs into >one speaker at the same time. Some form of isolation circuit is required >to prevent the two radios trying to drive each other backwards, so to >speak. Are you really considering a "speaker"? Don't know many homebuilts with sufficiently low cabin noise to allow comfortable use of speakers. Here's something I've used on several simple systems (two receivers). Use a 47 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor in series with EACH radio's headset output to drive both headsets in paralle. This has the effect of cutting output voltage from each receiver by 1/2 but it's generally made up quite easily by turning up the volume. I genrally don't bother to put switches in the headset lines from each radio and choose to control each radio by setting its volume control. Use a two-pole, two position switch to flip the microphone audio and press-to-talk lines between the two transmitters. This is very easy to implement and see how it works before you go out and buy/build an isolation amplifier. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:01:40 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Location for relays guy, re "I was wondering about a location for the relays for the nose landing gear. Has anyone tried or has an opinion about positionning them against the forward face of F22, above NG30, that's under the canard ? Any comments due to water or dirts ....." I mounted the relays on a board and attached it to the top forwar end of NG30. Easy to see when removing the nose cover and so far no problems. dd From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:14:23 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Location for relays In a message dated 11/20/98 2:58:25 AM Central Standard Time, guy.terren@wanadoo.fr writes: << I was wondering about a location for the relays for the nose landing gear. >> As I mentioned to you a few days ago you can mount the relays for the Electric Nose Lift anywhere you wish. Several folks have mounted them on F-22 or on the side of the fuselage. Steve Wright Wright Aircraft Works LLC From: Epplin John A Subject: RE: COZY: Location for relays Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:43:52 -0600 Made aluminum brackets that clamp and positively retain the relays. Mounted these on the aft side of F22. Centered with the tabs up. I used fast-on connectors and did not solder the relay tabs. Has been some controversy about this but I don't see any problem if good workmanship practices are followed, proper crimp tools etc. I think the relays supplied are an overkill but that is good. John Epplin Mk4 #467 > -----Original Message----- > From: guy Terren [SMTP:guy.terren@wanadoo.fr] > Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:03 AM > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Location for relays > > Hi All, >   > I was wondering about a location for the relays for the nose landing gear. > Has anyone tried or has an opinion about positionning them against the > forward face of F22, above NG30, that's under the canard ? >   > Any comments due to water or dirts ..... >   > Thanks for your answer Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:13:23 -0800 From: marcna Subject: COZY: Wing Tip Light Covers Has anyone used the "Anthony's of Solvang " Wing Tip Light Covers. I installed the standard Whelen A600 light and strobe unit on my Cozy MKIV and powered the unit up. After about 15 minutes the light housing got so hot I thought it was going to melt the glass under the case. I was going to install the light cover but I'm concerned about the heat generated and a possible melt down. Has anyone had any luck with the covers? Marc Parmelee N425CZ From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Wing Tip Light Covers Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:37:14 -0600 Marc, Most of the builders who are flying are not active on this news group. I think you are asking the wrong people. Nat ---------- > From: marcna > To: Cozy Builders Group > Subject: COZY: Wing Tip Light Covers > Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 11:13 PM > > Has anyone used the "Anthony's of Solvang " Wing Tip Light Covers. I > installed the standard Whelen A600 light and strobe unit on my Cozy > MKIV and powered the unit up. After about 15 minutes the light > housing got so hot I thought it was going to melt the glass under the > case. I was going to install the light cover but I'm concerned about > the heat generated and a possible melt down. Has anyone had any luck > with the covers? > > Marc Parmelee > N425CZ > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:12:00 -0500 From: bil kleb Subject: Re: COZY: Wing Tip Light Covers Nat Puffer wrote [in response to marc p]: > > Most of the builders who are flying are not active on this news group. hmmm, maybe most, but not all ... according to the 20 nov 98 mailing list, # who are Done/Flying: 31 <---- ** # who are Building: 202 # who are Pre-Build: 118 # who are Other (L.E., E-racer, etc.): 32 also, you're flying and you're an active member, right? ;) > I think you are asking the wrong people. even if this is so, it is nice to be able to consider such an issue ... sharing info/results/conjecture is why this group is so wonderful. [thanks again marc z.] -- bil "i never did _like_ reading pravda, it was a requirement." -anonymous Date: Tue, 24 Nov 98 7:27:31 EST From: "Nick J Ugolini" Subject: COZY: Strobe Cover ---------- > From: marcna > To: Cozy Builders Group > Subject: COZY: Wing Tip Light Covers > Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 11:13 PM > > Has anyone used the "Anthony's of Solvang " Wing Tip Light Covers. I > installed the standard Whelen A600 light and strobe unit on my Cozy > MKIV...........< I purchase a set for my Cozy (not installed yet) Very light weight and somewhat flexible. It only plane I saw them installed on is a factory Velocity at Lakeland last year. You might what to contact Velocity directly and express your concerns. From: mbeduhn@juno.com Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:27:34 -0600 Subject: Re: COZY: Wing Tip Light Covers On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:13:23 -0800 marcna writes: >Has anyone used the "Anthony's of Solvang " Wing Tip Light Covers. I >installed the standard Whelen A600 light and strobe unit on my Cozy >MKIV and powered the unit up. After about 15 minutes the light >housing got so hot I thought it was going to melt the glass under the >case. I was going to install the light cover but I'm concerned about >the heat generated and a possible melt down. Has anyone had any luck >with the covers? > >Marc Parmelee >N425CZ > I made some light covers like the ones you have. Although they looked great, in use they were totally unacceptable. The entire light cover would glow bright white every time the strobe fired and was VERY distracting at night. It was so bad, my wife said she wouldn't fly with me at night unless they were removed. Off they went. BTW, I noticed no speed improvement with them on. With the covers off, the winglet blocks all of the flash, and there is no distraction. Another word of advice for those who have not installed their strobes yet. Mount them far enough aft so you can not see the strobe lens from the pilot's seat. You can temporarily mount them, then sit in the seat to confirm that they are hidden by the winglet. If you can see the lens at all, you will see a flash at night. I also tried an aluminum shield to block the flash, but moving the strobe back works and looks better. Mark Beduhn Cozy N494CZ (200+ hours) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:47:43 -0800 From: Tim Andres Subject: Re: COZY: Stick shaker Ernesto Sanchez wrote: > A friend (Long-Ez driver) recently had an alternator failure but failed to > notice the warning light and ran the battery down. Later, he discovered > the problem and fixed it. This all lead to a discussion on how easy it was > to over look the light. Someone in the discussion related that he had seen > a device (small motor with an offset weight and please do not ask me where > to get it because I don't know, vibrator??) that could fit in a control > stick and shake it warning the pilot that there was a problem. This sounded > like a good idea to me. > > Ernesto Sanchez > Long-Ez, mount the wings and strakes are next > es12043@utech.net You could get a very small vibrating motor from an old motorola pager with "silent mode". The trick would be regulating the voltage down to 1.5vdc the pager operates on......just thinking again :-) From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:34:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Stick shaker Bill Theeringer Many intercoms and audio panels have a place to input an alarm signal(buzzer) to aircraft speaker or headphones. The input is usually not marked for alarm, but your radio shop can guide you to one of the unused that will override everything else. I had the gear warning hooked this way for a short time. but it overrode everything including approach control. Its been disconnected for many years. Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:51:54 -0500 From: Bill Theeringer Subject: COZY: Stick shaker .......a device (small motor with an offset weight and please do not ask me where to get it because I don't know, vibrator??) that could fit in a control stick and shake it warning the pilot that there was a problem. This sounded like a good idea to me. Ernesto Sanchez -------------------- How about a Stick Shocker. Easy to build, light weight, gets your attention! A couple of thousand volts? Just kidding ;) How about a 555 timer that pulses at a fast rate to beep the canopy alarm? Bill Theeringer N29EZ From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:06:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: COZY: Re: Stick shaker Sanchez wrote 3 comments: 1: more complication. 2: Mount the warning lights right in front of the pilot, and make sure they are bright. 3: Make a reflex habit of checking things in flight. I lost my alternator belt in the race at Butler Flyin, with looking for grain elevators and stacks to turn about, I still had the reflex to check things, and probably was aware with 2 minutes of failure. Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:29:27 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Stick Shaker.... To all on this subject, A stick shaker in a Canard Airplane? What next? I think a low voltage (12.5) activated electric shocker hooked up to pilots seat pants might do it also....or how about developing a cockpit panel scan habit. Most of the time cruising along, there isn't much else to do, check your gages. I have a bright flashing yellow light hooked up to the linear regulator, it comes on at about 12.5 volts...so far the only time I've seen it on is before engine start. I've also got a gage that reads 14 when things are normal. Sure enough if I had a stick shaker go off, I'd first think I was having Mach buffet, a stall, or flutter going on. My brain would have to be reprogrammed to connect a shaking stick with an electical problem. dd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:44:54 -0500 From: Phillip Subject: COZY: Stick Shaker.... Ernesto Sanchez wrote: > A friend (Long-Ez driver) recently had an alternator failure but failed to > notice the warning light and ran the battery down. Later, he discovered > the problem and fixed it. This all lead to a discussion on how easy it was > to over look the light. Someone in the discussion related that he had seen > a device (small motor with an offset weight and please do not ask me where > to get it because I don't know, vibrator??) that could fit in a control > stick and shake it warning the pilot that there was a problem. This sounded > like a good idea to me. > > Ernesto Sanchez > Long-Ez, mount the wings and strakes are next > es12043@utech.net My experience with "Stick Shakers" has been with flying corporate jets. The purpose of the "Stick Shaker" is to warn the pilot of an impending stall. Some aircraft(Most Learjets) even have "Stick Pushers" that actually force the nose of the aircraft down should the pilot not take appropriate action. For Canards, this should not be an issue. As far as the warning of an alternator failure, I would suggest wiring it to a RED MASTER WARNING LIGHT.....located directly in front of the pilot. ....I believe this is what.....< CDenk 2: Mount the warning lights right in front of the pilot, and make sure they are bright.>......was suggesting. I would also consider wiring LOW OIL PRESSURE and LOW FUEL QUANTITY to this MASTER WARNING LIGHT. Phillip Sill, Cozy #707 Chapter 4 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:39:38 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: alternator pulley size >>There has been no problem with the high R.P.M. as the alternators were >>designed to take it. A 4 inch pulley would slow it down and still allow >>full ouput. They are available from Avery Tool in Texas or Aircraft >>Spruce. The alternators make full output at 7000 R.P.M and should be >>turned about 5000 R.P.M in cruise to work the best. Not true. The minimum speed for full output on a modern alternator is on the order of 4,000 rpm. Pulley size should be selected so that full output is available at ramp idle. After all, that's what we really liked about alternators in the first place . . . generators had to be ratioed for full ouput a minimum cruise RPM for brush life, alternators are happier turning fast . . . >The prime reason for going to a larger alternator pulley is to reduce the >amount of power used to drive the alternator at unnecessary high speed, >thereby allowing the saved power to be utilized elseware. >I'll leave it to one of the engineering types to try to describe dynamics of >and the amount of power wasteage above six or seven thousand rpm. The horse >power wasted is considerable. Again, an over fertilized myth. Power input is equal to power ouput less losses in the device. As RPM goes up, torque goes down. And except for increase in windage losses, input horsepower is a constant for constant ouput watts. When RPM goes up, field current goes down (lower heat output) and cooling goes up (fans turn faster). The faster you turn an alternator, the better it likes it. >I have not seen an example of overspeed destruction or damage to an >alternator yet. Though I'm sure it has happened. Not to my knowlege. Modern alternators don't self destruct below 15,000 rpm . . . a Lycoming ring gear pulley driving a stock N-D 2-3/4" pulley runs the alternator about 10,000 rpm in cruise. A very nice combination. >I think the large pulley swap is an old street racing trick. There were and >still are some eighty five hundered and higher rpm. small blocks out there >tearing up the tarmack. Oh My wasted youth! I think the larger pulley's were created to accomodate what was belived to be poor bearing life in some automotive conversions at the time . . . In observing nearly 10 years history and hundreds of thousands of flight hours experience with B&C belt driven alternators on Lycomings, the return rate is ZERO . . . I can confidently suggest that upsizing an alternator pulley is a waste of worry time. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:58:51 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: COZY: Re: alternator pulley size >My Delco CS-121 Alternator puts out around 70 amps, with a maximum rated speed of 12,000 RPM. >Originally I had a small (2.75"??) pulley to keep the charging rate up at low speeds - approaches >from high altitude and long taxi. I changed to a larger pulley (3.5 - 4") to improve belt wear >problems. Have had no problems with lack of electric power and I don't turn things off to conserve. >If items should be on, they are on. Gates Rubber Co. belts are recommended by B&C and supplied in all their kits . . . I'm not aware of any wear problems but I'll ask Bill about it when I see him this weekend. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:21:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: alternator pulley size Nuckolls writes agree gates are good quality, but this was a case of pulley diameter too small for the load. B&C alternators are fine, but when I bought 7 years ago, they didn't have something that would put out the 58+ amps I needed. The Delco CS121 was the lightest that would put out the amps. Being a Ford employee, I would have preferred Ford. Also the Delco is domestic made in Muncie, Indiana. Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:27:55 -0500 From: Bill Theeringer Subject: COZY: Altitude encoder woes Scott; An altitude offset as large as you reported probably is not a static leak as it would have to be a very large hole! One thing you might try is to get an altitude report while on the ground. If it is correct the problem then probably _is_ a static leak. (Also underline probably.) If it is way off you might have an open data line between the encoder and the transponder. This would cause the transponder to encode a fixed offset because it would interpret an open line as a data "0", or an active state. The data lines are inverted logic. The offset would remain fixed at various altitude ranges depending on the data line affected. You can verify a suspected open by pulling the connectors off the encoder and the transponder and buzzing the cable out. There are 9 data lines. They are called A1, A2, A4, B1, B2, B4, C1, C2, and C4. You can also measure the voltage of these data lines at the transponder with the system running and make a "truth table" matrix which should agree with the encoded altitude. The truth table should be in the encoder owners manual. Don't forget the logic is reversed. HTH Bill Theeringer N29EZ See our award winning Long EZ with Jim Newmans excellent retractable gear at http://www.flash.net/~infaero/infgear.htm Composite Aircraft Accessories HOME: 805-964-5454, SHOP: 805-964-5453 E Mail: Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@Compuserve.com PO Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 "Once you have tasted flight, you will walk with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been, and there you will long to be" Leonardo DaVinci (1452-1519) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:14:56 -0500 (EST) From: "C. W. Wright" Subject: Re: COZY: Altitude encoder digital code > transponder and buzzing the cable out. There are 9 data lines. They are > called A1, A2, A4, B1, B2, B4, C1, C2, and C4. You can also measure the > voltage of these data lines at the transponder with the system running and > make a "truth table" matrix which should agree with the encoded altitude. > The truth table should be in the encoder owners manual. Don't forget the > logic is reversed. You can get the altitude encoding pattern at: http://www.canard.com/ezi/modec/ in the file "modec.html" ;-> W. Wright Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:58:22 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: alternator pulley size > . . agree Gates [belts] are good quality, but this was a case >of pulley diameter too small for the load. B&C >alternators are fine, but when I bought 7 years ago, >they didn't have something that would put out >the 58+ amps I needed. The Delco CS121 was the lightest >that would put out the amps. Being a Ford >employee, I would have preferred Ford. Also the Delco is >domestic made in Muncie, Indiana. I'm confused. The B&C 60 amp have been available for at least that long and they've always used the 3/8 Gates belt on a 2-3/4" pulley. How did the Delco differ? Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 13:06:15 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: Master Relay >I have a 75 AA5 which will not disengage the master relay in flight when >the alternator is charging (you cannot turn off the master switch and >disconnect the buss during flight). It works ok on the ground when the >engine is not running. Without seeing wiring for the airplane, I'll have to make some assumptions. Many TC and amateur built airplanes have classic split rocker switch for battery and alternator control which is INTENDED to prevent battery disconnection any time the alternator is operating. A mechanical internconnect allows the alternator to be shut off with battery still on and shuts of battery any time the alternator is shut off. The reason for this is because most alternators do not run well with the battery off line. If you have two separate switches for altenrator and battery, it may be that the alternator switch is two-pole with one side used to switch alternator field, the other used to make sure the battery contactor stays closed any time the alternator is on. >There is a diode from the battery terminal to the >solenoid energize terminal. Do you suppose that this could be a factor if >it has failed? Or do oyou think that maybe somebody has done some wiring >changes such that the alternator is feeding voltage to the master relay >solenoid terminal so that it cannot be disengaged. Most diodes were added to battery contactors as a spike catcher for the little bit of engergy that's stored in the contactor's magnetic circuit. I cannot deduce from your words exactly how this diode is wired but I suspect you're speaking of a three-terminal contactor with a (+) or banded end of a diode attached to the big "BAT" terminal and the other end attached to the small coil terminal. This is a conventional use of a diode for spike catching. Failure of the diode (either open or shorted) would not produce the symptoms you describe. In any event, opening the battery contactor in flight without also shutting down the alternator is generally not a good idean. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 17:29:11 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Ground Power Article Update I've had several requests recently for alternate wiring of a 3-terminal ground power receptacle in a system having the same features as the article I did for the low-cost Piper receptacle. I've revised the article to include this information. Interested builders may download from Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:31:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: COZY: Electrical Load In a recent private message interchange, questioning my 70+ amp alternator size, was said by a well known electrical guru, as I interpet, size the alternator for a cruising load. Here is my reply: yes there's a heated pitot too. I don't believe in providing enough amperage only in cruise, but on the ground for long taxi and waiting for clearance. The batteries (I have one of B&C's) aren't that big. THe 58 amps is everything on, and with a 1000 rpm fast idle, the flow of current is to the battery. Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 11:10:55 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: Current / circuit breakers >>Some circuit breakers have AC or DC ratings....? >>How does this effect circuit breakers? >> >>My basics has gone out of the window. >>Got into an arguement without being perpared. >> >>C/B's I've seen have dual ratings: >>e.g. >> >>10A >>12-24VDC >>110-250VAC >>??????? Note that the 14 VDC rating and the 100 VAC are the same . . . 10 amps. This is generally true of all switching devices (See my article on switch ratings downloadable from our website). This rating has more to do with contact material and contact opening mechanisms than with the current carrying capacity of a closed switch. >>The guy who started the arguement states that an A/C C/B will trip >>later.? Not true. Amps DC is the same heating value as RMS Amps AC. The C/B is simply an educated switch. In addition to a calibrated trip point, it has to be rated for contact life assmuming X-number of trips in the laboratory. Hope this helps. > Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:28:24 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Testing Alternator Diodes >Saw your remark about testing for a shorted diode in an >alternator and wonder how you would do it. When an alternator's diodes are intact, the "ripple" voltage riding on the alternator's output is only about 5% peak-to-peak of the 14 volt nominal or something on the order of 700 millivolts. When a diode opens or shorts, the ripple voltage raises markedly. Over the years, several products have been offered as "alternator failure" lights that monitor ripple voltage on the system and illuminate a warning lamp if ripple voltage becomes markedly higher. If you own a digital mulimeter, you can set the device to read AC volts and connect it to the bus of your airplane. Turn on all the loads you can at cruise and note the AC volts value at some time when you're reasonably certain that all is well with your alternator. At some time in the future, you want to confirm the health of your altenator, repeat the load/rpm condition. A bad diode will more than triple the AC ripple voltage reading. My personal favorite for alternator health testing involves a portable load bank of fat power resistors or a combination of light bulbs and the necessary switches to add or remove load in usefully small steps. I've built a simple loadbank using halogen headlamp bulbs in an approx 5" rectangular tube made of plywood. With a 12VDC muffin fan in each end, there was plenty of air movement to keep things cool. Eight H4 (100W) halogen bulbs and an H3 (55W) lamp would allow me to create a load of over 60 amps in steps of about 4 amps. Suitable wires are used to attach this fixture right to the back of the alternator leaving the normal aircraft wiring in place. Oh yeah, I mounted a DC voltmeter and an ammeter on my little plywood box to watch what happend when I added load. The voltmeter had a switch that would let me go back and forth between looking at the alternator output voltage and alternator field voltage. Make the wires long enough that you don't have to stand right behind the prop during engine runup. Run the engine up and MINIMIZE aircraft systems loads. Increase the load in smallest steps noting when the voltage falls below 13.0 volts. The voltage should not sag this low until you've added a load very close to the alternator's rated output. If you have a bad diode, you generally can't get much more than 1/2 the alternator's rated output. This simple piece of test equipment is better than an alternator test stand examination of your hardware. You can do a complete diagnostic of the alternator system BEFORE putting a wrench to the airplane. Any mechanic who doesn't probe the field voltage of an alternator while sujecting it to some considered loads and RPMs does not understand how the thing works. He/she may make an educated guess as to the cause of your problem but for my money, I wouldn't let them get out the toolbox until they explain exactly what's wrong and why they think so. Far too many airplanes leave the shop with parts they didn't need. The equipment I've described above combined with techniques describe here and in the Appendix to our book (http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z.pdf) can make the task easier and effective. >Also would a decent dvm be ok or do you need an "iron vane" type meter? I prefer analog meters . . . but they don't need to be iron vane. Analog meters can offer a sense of dynamics you cannot see well with digital meters. Our ammeter/ voltmeter combo would be a good candidate for building diagnostic instrumentation right into a home made loadbank. Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:43:14 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: URL error and New Information A few days ago I cited a link to a downloadable copy of Appendix Z (power distribution diagrams with notes) to the aeroelectric connection. The link had a typo and the REAL link is: http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z8.pdf Over the past several weeks, I've had several requests from builders for installation of a very light, dual alternator system. I've modified one of hte power distribution diagrams from the book and published it separately at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/fig_z6.pdf BTW . . . the B&C spline drive alternator (about 10 years old) has received the benefits of modern materials and process upgrades. While officially listed as an 8 amp device, in reality it's now capable of over 10 amps output. I show the wiring for using an SD-8 in place of a vacuum pump for a totally electric panel. The diagram is also suited for pairing a belt driven add-on alernator paired with the built in alternator on the Rotax 912/914 series engines. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:39:22 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: COZY: Vacuum Line At 08:13 PM 12/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings to all; > >There was a discussion recently about using either copper or aluminum >tubing to serve the dual purpose of a vacuum line and battery return. >Copper Vs. Aluminum: >Copper is twice as good a conductor as aluminum, but is 3 times as heavy. >This clearly gives the edge to aluminum. Its big drawback is corrosion, >(garnet) which is an excellent insulator. There are anti corrosion pastes >on the market which will allay this problem. They are routinely used (and >required by BELCORE standards) in central office equipment installations. Aluminum conductors in electrical systems has been tried numerous times over the years with the most famous producing the great Piper Aluminum Battery Cable STC's. By now, I suspect all aircraft originally fitted with aluminum wire have been retrofitted back to copper. Aluminum isn't the problem as a conductor . . . it's the joints. Alum cannot be soldered easily. Yes, there are some improvements in joining techniques that make the task more secure . . . we're even going to have some alluminum conductors in some new airplane designs at RAC . . . I'll have to reserve final opinions until they've been in service about ten years. For my own part, a 2AWG copper battery cable with soldered or crimped connections is pretty hard to top for trouble-free service. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= From: "Tim" Subject: Re: COZY: Vacuum Line Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:21:16 -0600 Try a self etching paint availible at most automotive paint suppliers. I have used it on certified aircraft with good results. Make sure you follow the directions on the can. You should be able to find it in aerosol cans. I will try to remember the name of the product it worked very well on battery boxes on a couple of pipers I was fixing. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Bill Theeringer Cc: All Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 7:54 PM Subject: COZY: Vacuum Line >Greetings to all; > >There was a discussion recently about using either copper or aluminum >tubing to serve the dual purpose of a vacuum line and battery return. >Others voiced interest in using tubing for the return path while inserting >the starter cable inside, coax style. No information was available on the >relative copper tubing sizes Vs their electrical specifications. In order >to close this gap and allow fellow builders to make a more informed >decision, I have I have collected electrical data for the 6 most common >flexible copper tubing sizes. > >A=1/4”; 0.250 OD, 0.030 wall >B=3/8”; 0.375 OD, 0.032 wall >C=1/2”; 0.500 OD, 0.032 wall >D=1/2L; 0.625 OD, 0.040 wall >E=3/4L; 0.875 OD, 0.045 wall >F=1/1L; 1.250 OD, 0.050 wall > >The data columns below are: >D=Diameter, equivalent solid copper wire. >W=Wire size, nearest AWG. >#=Weight, pounds /10 foot length. >V=Voltage, drop /10 foot /100 amps. > >Results: >A = 0.173D; 5-6W; 0.9#; 0.33V >B = 0.219D; 3-4W; 1.5#; 0.21V >C = 0.253D; 2W; 2.0#; 0.15V >D = 0.316D; 1/0W; 3.0#; 0.10V >E = 0.397D; 3/0W; 5.0#; 0.06V >F = 0.474D; 4/0W; 6.6#; 0.04V > >Copper Vs. Aluminum: >Copper is twice as good a conductor as aluminum, but is 3 times as heavy. >This clearly gives the edge to aluminum. Its big drawback is corrosion, >(garnet) which is an excellent insulator. There are anti corrosion pastes >on the market which will allay this problem. They are routinely used (and >required by BELCORE standards) in central office equipment installations. >The vacuum line on N29EZ is a per plans 8 foot length of .625 OD X 0.040 >soft aluminum tubing. Suitable vacuum hoses on each end connect the >regulator and the vacuum pump. A couple of inches in on both ends a 1/4 >inch hole was drilled. An AN4-5A bolt was installed with one washer under >the head and the threads outside. The soft tubing formed nicely around the >washer. A suitable lug and #4 wire went from the tubing to the engine, and >likewise for the battery. The resistance of the aluminum tubing is >equivalent to #2 AWG copper and weighs 1.06 lb. Since the vacuum line is >already there, the additional #2 wire needed to do its electrical duties >would weigh an additional 1.6 lb. The voltage drop on the vacuum line >while cranking 100 amps is about 0.13 volts. > >Bill Theeringer >N29EZ > >See our award winning Long EZ with >Jim Newmans excellent retractable gear at >http://www.flash.net/~infaero/infgear.htm > >Composite Aircraft Accessories >HOME: 805-964-5454, SHOP: 805-964-5453 >E Mail: Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@Compuserve.com >PO Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 93121 > >"Once you have tasted flight, >you will walk with your eyes turned skywards, >for there you have been, >and there you will long to be" >Leonardo DaVinci (1452-1519) > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:11:36 -0800 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Vacuum Line > Aluminum conductors in electrical systems has been tried numerous > times over the years with the most famous producing the great Piper > Aluminum Battery Cable STC's. By now, I suspect all aircraft > originally fitted with aluminum wire have been retrofitted back > to copper. Aluminum isn't the problem as a conductor . . . it's the > joints. Alum cannot be soldered easily. Yes, there are some improvements > in joining techniques that make the task more secure . . . we're > even going to have some alluminum conductors in some new airplane > designs at RAC . . . I'll have to reserve final opinions until they've > been in service about ten years. For my own part, a 2AWG copper > battery cable with soldered or crimped connections is pretty hard > to top for trouble-free service. > > > > Bob . . . Bob, I totally agree. I had a Cherokee with the aluminum cable mess. I do like the idea, though, on a canard airplane with long runs, of using a copper tube as a conductor and as a vacuum line. I would envision a custom machined copper lug that would clamp around the copper tube (kinda like an Adel clamp), and be silver soldered to it, to attatch the 2AWG wire lug to, without putting any stress on the copper tube. As long as the tube and wire were well supported to prevent vibration stress cracks, I can't see anything wrong with this. Can you? Howard Rogers Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:10:51 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Vacuum Line Howard, re "I do like the idea, though, on a canard airplane with long runs, of using a copper tube as a conductor and as a vacuum line.....As long as the tube and wire were well supported to prevent vibration stress cracks, I can't see anything wrong with this. Can you?" Vacuum lines do tend to accumulate fuel in some installations due to being hooked up to the intake pipe or the intake side of the cylinder. In fact, I believe Cessna has a sump bottle to keep the fuel from finding its way to vacuum driven devices. I do not feel comfortable using a line with the potential for having fuel or fuel vapors present as the negative half of an electric system... dd MKIV #155 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:12:05 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: RV-List: Wire terminals >Is there such a thing as "aircraft quality" electrical >terminals or are the ones I buy at Radio Shack the >same as those sold by Vans or Aircraft Spruce? First, I'll suggest the term "aircraft quality" is without definition but in answer to your question, there's a major difference between auto-parts-store versus environmentally qualified terminals recommended for use on airplanes. The major feature of a solderless terminal for single wire termination is the inclusion of a metal liner inside the plastic sleeve that is supposed to support the insulation of a crimped wire. The premier terminal maker (AMP Incorporated) offers both pre-insulated, diamond grip (PIDG) and all plastic (PlastiGrip) terminals. Virtually all major terminal manufacturers offer equivalent parts. Anyone who goes to the trouble to include this sleeve has probably taken the time and effort to become a qualified supplier under one or more of the military specifications describing the better terminals. When in doubt, look inside the wire end of the un-crimped terminal . . . you should see two pieces of metal inside the plastic insulator. One is the butt end of the terminal where the stripped end of the wire will go . . . the other is a thin metal liner inside the insulator that will extend almost to the open end of the plastic. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:25:01 -0800 From: hrogers@slac.stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Vacuum Line David, re: > Vacuum lines do tend to accumulate fuel in some installations due to >being hooked up to the intake pipe or the intake side of the cylinder. >In fact, I believe Cessna has a sump bottle to keep the fuel from >finding its way to vacuum driven devices. > > I do not feel comfortable using a line with the potential for having >fuel or fuel vapors present as the negative half of an electric >system... > >dd >MKIV #155 I was only referring here to a vacuum line from a VACUUM PUMP, not from manifold vacuum. Howard Rogers --Howard Rogers 650-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu pager: 650-997-1089 New! email directly to my pager (approximately 50 word limit). Try it!: 6509971089@alphapage.airtouch.com From: "William Wade" Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Floscan Transducer? Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:34:27 -0500 I'm not sure what you might have for instructions already and some of this might be redundant. JPI uses a Flowscan FXT-201 transducer with the EGT-701 monitor. Here's what they recommend: 1. All gravity flow installations WITHOUT fuel pump. Must use FXT-231: Between fuel tank and carburetor. 2. All fuel injected engines WITH vapor return lines to fuel tank, all Continental and certain Lycoming engines: Betwen throttle body and fuel flow divider. 3. All pump fed carbureted and fuel injected engines WITHOUT vapor return lines: Between engine driven pump and servo/throttle body or carburetor. 4. Pressure carbureted engines with vapor return lines: One transducer in carb inlet line and one transducer in outlet line. Notes: If there is a fuel return line from the carb you would need two transducers and an Electronic International FFDM-1 fuel flow differential module. The transducer output port should be mounted lower or even with the carb or fuel servo intlet. If not possible you're supposed to put a loop in the hose between them. Use steel fittings with the transducer, not aluminum which will gall. Flexible hoses at both ends. Flow should be straight through the transducer. They require a piece of firesleeve (Aeroquip AE102/62-24) to cover the transducer. Hope this is of help- Bill prototype 'Super' Chipmunk N18EF Velocity Classic RG N6098S in the works Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:32 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Pollock Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Floscan Transducer? Graham Singleton wrote: >Bubbles!? I think it's the intermittent flow that causes the inaccuracy. >Any bubbles and you got problems. I guess the word bubbles is inaccurate. Probably turblence in the lines from the boost pump or the intermittent flow as you describe would have been a better discription. In any case, moving the fuel flow sensor before the boost pump (which also allowed more straight fuel line to be added prior to the sensor) corrected the inaccuracy. From: "Reid Siebert" Subject: Re: COZY: Vacuum Line Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:49:49 -0600 Howard, I'm using a 7/8" soft copper water pipe from the hell-hole to my nose battery compartment. It does reduce down to 1/2" forward of the instrument panel. I'm running a #2 Teflon coated battery cable that is also encased in a PVC water pipe that easily fits it's diameter. In the pipe that is forward of the instr. panel the PVC pipe converts to a plastic hose that just fits the inside diameter of the smaller pipe. Being an A&P mechanic myself I added this extra internal protection after reading about the A.D. notes generated on Boeings that had wires running through aluminum pipes in the center fuel tank area. Many of the wires had chafed through their insulation and were shorting on the inside of the pipes. Some wires actually burned through the pipe walls. This might have caused the TWA 800 explosion. To add the copper pipe to your vacuum system I would recommend using an even larger diameter pipe up to the instrument panel, otherwise your pump will be struggling hard to move enough air. This causes premature failures. Reid Siebert Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:08:38 -0500 From: Bill Theeringer Subject: COZY: More vacuum stuff Greetings once more; I recently posted a chart that showed the relationship between various copper tubing sizes and their copper wire equivalent. Several voiced their concerns over the drawbacks of using aluminum as an electrical conductor. Noted were AD’s against aluminum wiring in certificated metal planes. Aluminum is a suitable conductor of electricity as long as certain requirements are met. The biggest problem for the composite home builder is making the electrical connection in a manner that is safe, reliable, and corrosion free. I will not address these issues as they are up to the individual builder and are large in scope. In response to many requests I have expanded the data to include the equivalent copper rod and copper AWG wire sizes for aluminum tubing. Also of note is the fact that paralleling 2 wires changes the wire gauge by 3 units, not 2 as one might assume. 2 #8 AWG wires are equal to a single #5, 4 #8 AWG wires are equal to a single # 2. The data columns below are: Size = tubing size OD - outside diameter wall = tubing wall thickness rod = equivalent copper rod diameter AWG = nearest wire size, copper Lb = weight, 10 foot length drop = voltage drop, 10 foot, 100 amps R = resistance, Milliohms, 10 foot length Copper Tubing Size OD wall rod AWG Lb drop R 1/4”; .250 .030 .173 5-6 0.9 .33 3.3 3/8”; .375 .032 .219 3-4 1.5 .21 2.1 1/2”; .500 .032 .253 2 2.0 .15 1.5 1/2L; .625 .040 .316 1/0 3.0 .10 1.0 3/4L; .875 .045 .397 3/0 5.0 .06 0.6 1/1L; 1.25 .050 .474 4/0 6.6 .04 0.4 Aluminum Tubing Size OD wall rod AWG Lb drop R 1/4”; .250 .030 .122 8-9 0.3 .66 6.6 3/8”; .375 .032 .155 6-7 0.5 .42 4.2 1/2”; .500 .032 .179 5 0.7 .30 3.0 1/2L; .625 .040 .223 3-4 1.0 .20 2.0 3/4L; .875 .045 .281 1-2 1.7 .12 1.2 1/1L; 1.25 .050 .335 00-0 2.2 .08 0.8 Bill Theeringer N29EZ See our award winning Long EZ with Jim Newmans excellent retractable gear at http://www.flash.net/~infaero/infgear.htm Composite Aircraft Accessories HOME: 805-964-5454, SHOP: 805-964-5453 E Mail: Composite_Aircraft_Accessories@Compuserve.com PO Box 21645 Santa Barbara, CA 9312 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:52:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: COZY: New Compass Check out for a new compass, looks really neat.