From: Cozy7971@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:53:05 EST Subject: COZY: Landing Light I have been doing battle with the landing light recently and thought the following might be of help to others. The plans give a K-Mart part number for the light. I couldn't find the specific number but did discover that the light was simply the same type that people put under the bumpers on their cars. Kind of like a fog light but without the yellow filter. It took me a while to figure this out but then I am a bit dense. The position noted for the light is real close to the heat duct. The plans did not show the light housing being blocked by the thigh supports so I decided to move it sideways so as not to cut into the supports. I felt a side benefit would be that the light would not be quite as obstructed by the nose gear. I was wrong. Put the light where specified in the plans or you will have to develop a really strange extention linkage. I will be spending my weekend redoing it. If I had it to do over I think I would have put a plexiglass lense in the plywood mounting bracket with the light behind the lense. The plans call for a 1/8 inch thick aluminum extension handle with back to back 45 degree bends. After talking with several people in the EAA chapter and ruining several handles trying to make the bends I reached the conclusion that the plans were unrealistic on this point. I made a slightly longer handle with greater spacing between the bends. This allowed a larger bend radius. Dick Finn From: "Boykin, Ed (C)" Subject: COZY: Roll Trim? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:07:23 -0500 I've read about and heard about the electric pitch trim system that is available and recommended by Nat. I was wondering if there was a roll trim system being developed alond the same line? (Inexpensive, simple to retrofit, etc.) It seems that a pitch trim system could be build in much the same way as the pitch trim. Ed Boykin From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Roll Trim? (fwd) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 11:55:17 EST Ed Boykin wrote: >..... I was wondering if there was a roll trim system being developed >alond the same line? (Inexpensive, simple to retrofit, etc.) It seems >that a pitch trim system could be build in much the same way as the ^^^^^ roll? >pitch trim. Within the past 2 - 3 years there was an article in the CSA newsletter describing a roll trim system using the MAC servos. It was for a L.E., but could obviously be used in a COZY. The pitch trim systems I've seen would be difficult to adapt to the roll trim, as the actuating mechanisms are completely different. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: "Steve Campbell" Subject: RE: COZY: Roll Trim? (fwd) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:30:31 >Ed Boykin wrote: >>..... I was wondering if there was a roll trim system being developed >>alond the same line? (Inexpensive, simple to retrofit, etc.) It seems >>that a pitch trim system could be build in much the same way as the > ^^^^^ > roll? >>pitch trim. Marc wrote: >The pitch trim systems I've seen >would be difficult to adapt to the roll trim, as the actuating mechanisms >are completely different. > Actually I installed Vance's pitch trim system. It work beautifully (however the plane is still in my basement). I then applied same system to roll as well. The two torque tubes pass through oilite fittings on the firewall and are attached together through a pushrod. I drilled small holes through the large washers on both sides of this pushrod. On one side I simply attached a spring to a fixed position. On the other I attached the spring to the same linear actuator Vance used in his pitch trim system. Seems to work OK, but the motion is not as smooth as I would like. I plan to play around with different springs to improve it. Steve ************************************************ Stephen A. Campbell, Professor, ECE University of Minnesota 200 Union Street Minneapolis 55455 (612) 625-5876 phone / (612) 625-4583 fax Campbell@ece.umn.edu ************************************************* Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:04:13 -0500 From: bil kleb Subject: Re: COZY: Roll Trim? (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > > Within the past 2 - 3 years there was an article in the CSA newsletter > describing a roll trim system using the MAC servos. shameless plug: the rudementary search capability at the csa site (http://www.canard.com/csa/) reveals: Issue Page Subject Author Title Jan 95 10 trim actuator Atkinson Electric roll and pitch trim systems Jul 96 11 trim actuator Voss Electric trim system Jan 98 31 Electric trim Caldeiro Run away trim/switch failure -- bil From: "astrong" Subject: Re: COZY: Roll Trim? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:19:53 -0800 ---------- > From: Boykin, Ed (C) > To: 'Cozy' > Subject: COZY: Roll Trim? > Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 6:07 AM > > I've read about and heard about the electric pitch trim system that is > available and > recommended by Nat. I was wondering if there was a roll trim system > being developed > alond the same line? (Inexpensive, simple to retrofit, etc.) It seems > that a pitch trim system could be build in much the same way as the > pitch trim. > > Ed Boykin Ed, Yes the Strong Electric Pitch Trim can be adapted to the roll trim system, however based on my experience with my COZY III first flown Mar. 93` " You do not need an electric roll trim in COZY the plans roll trim is more than adequate" I have flown with varying fuel loads. with and with out co-pilot, heavy or light, and have yet to use the roll trim. Instead I would suggest investing in the "AP-1 Autopilot and S-2 Servo" by Navaid Devices. In both Wing leveler and tracking mode you can adjust for roll. AlexA.R.Strong Homepage "http://www.canard.com/trim" "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will long to return" `Leonardo DaVinci` Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:21:47 -0500 From: Paul Krasa Subject: Re: COZY: Roll Trim? (fwd) Roll Trim on the Cozy is simple using a MAC servo. A friend of mine mounted the servo on the firewall and connected a approximately 3" spring to the aileron bellhorn then mounted another spring on the other side to balance the spring force of the first spring. I understand that it was an adaptation from Vance's plans, and the change was using the mac servo. I helped him with the instalation, and we completed it in an afternoon. Paul At 11:55 2/19/98 EST, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: >Ed Boykin wrote: > >>..... I was wondering if there was a roll trim system being developed >>alond the same line? (Inexpensive, simple to retrofit, etc.) It seems >>that a pitch trim system could be build in much the same way as the > ^^^^^ > roll? >>pitch trim. > >Within the past 2 - 3 years there was an article in the CSA newsletter >describing a roll trim system using the MAC servos. It was for a L.E., >but could obviously be used in a COZY. The pitch trim systems I've seen >would be difficult to adapt to the roll trim, as the actuating mechanisms >are completely different. > >-- >Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com > > Subject: Re: COZY: Roll Trim? From: mbeduhn@juno.com (Mark W Beduhn) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:08:20 EST On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:07:23 -0500 "Boykin, Ed (C)" writes: >I've read about and heard about the electric pitch trim system that is >available and recommended by Nat. I was wondering if there was a roll trim >system being developed along the same line? (Inexpensive, simple to retrofit, >etc.) It seems that a pitch trim system could be build in much the same way as >the pitch trim. > >Ed Boykin > I installed an electric roll trim system in my plane when I built it. In hindsight (after 80 hours of flying) I wouldn't bother. It is used so infrequently that it is not worth the expense. The electric pitch trim on the otherhand (I have a Strong unit) is worth its weight in gold. I wouldn't have it any other way. Mark Beduhn Cozy IV N494CZ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From: COZYMK4 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:22:34 EST Subject: COZY: Landing Light Lever I have built the landing light as per the plans, but still I ahve a simple and stupid question.... Does the lever move foreward or backwards to actuate and extend the light? If it moves backwards, it is easier to reach, but the knob runs into to push rod and the push rod moves in a long slot, foreward and aft. If the knob moves foreward, the rod moves less fore and aft and more up and down only, requiring less of a slot, and the lever can move further. Which is the answer that everyone has used? Kevin CozyMK IV #90 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:40:06 +0100 From: Jean-Jacques CLAUS Subject: Re: COZY: Landing Light Lever COZYMK4 wrote: > > I have built the landing light as per the plans, but still I ahve a simple and > stupid question.... Does the lever move foreward or backwards to actuate and > extend the light? > > If it moves backwards, it is easier to reach, but the knob runs into to push > rod and the push rod moves in a long slot, foreward and aft. If the knob > moves foreward, the rod moves less fore and aft and more up and down only, > requiring less of a slot, and the lever can move further. > > Which is the answer that everyone has used? > > Kevin > CozyMK IV #90 Hi Kevin, I believe that the good answer is the respect of the ergonomic's rules of plane's controls. Here are some of these rules: - In a movement of control from the bottom, the top is considered as " on ". - From the rear toward the front, the front must be considered as " on ". - And from the left toward the right, it is the right that is "on ". The "on " can be an action of type all or nothing or a movement of the control going from the less toward the more. With the respect of these rules there isn't any doubt in any plane for any pilot. My .02 cts, Jean-Jacques CLAUS French Cosy Builder From: Iflycozy Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:46:28 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Landing Light Lever Landing light level should be pulled backwards toward pilot. It allows for more specific placement of the area to be lit. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:46:07 -0500 From: "Edmond A. Richards" Subject: COZY: Landing Light Lever >>Does the lever move foreward or backwards to actuate and extend the light?<< Kevin, This is one of those areas in the plans where you are really "on our own"= =2E = I built mine so the lever moves forward to deploy the light and trips a micro-switch when extended (to turn it on). I spent many hours trying to= get the whole thing to work properly and, quite frankly, I'm still not pleased with it. I'm sure there's a better way but I was trying to follo= w the plans and not redesign things. In retrospect perhaps putting the lig= ht in the nose the way some have done is a better solution. = My $.02. Good luck! Ed Richards Cozy Mark IV #088. Electrical and paint to go. From: Cozy7971 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:54:52 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Landing Light Lever In a message dated 98-03-22 00:29:53 EST, COZYMK4@aol.com writes: << Does the lever move foreward or backwards to actuate and extend the light? >> I had basically the same question. A few points that I ran into are worth noting. 1. I would not go so far as to say that the landing light handle cannot be built according to plans. I will, however, state that it cannot be built by me according to plans. I checked with several EAA members and was told that to bend the 1/8 inch aluminum you would need a far greater radius then specified. This throws the rest of the measurements way off. I made a longer handle and used a 1/4" bolt as a mandrel to bend the aluminum. This made it impossible to get full extention moving the lever forward (it hit the bottom of the kneehole before full extention). 2. The connecting rod needs to have a bend in it. I found this difficult to do without damaging the tube. I suggest placing hte bends prior to riveting the end pieces. If you ruin it you can easily cut another and try again. 3. Moving the handle backward resulted in full extention without hitting the knob. Unfortunately it crowds my right leg a bit. I noticed this while testing the cross country capabilities of the plane (I expect to be able to improve speed and distance once I get it out of the basement). From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:09:01 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant In a message dated 12/11/98 8:59:26 AM Central Standard Time, Fritzx2 writes: << Are you going to a veneer control? I had considered doing that so when I bought all my Brock stuff, I didn't purchase the throttle quadrant. >> Hi John I am using a push-pull system of my own design. This is a good question for the group. Where is the best place to purchase the system off the shelf? Phone# and part# please. Steve Wright Stagger EZ N700EZ From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:19:30 -0600 People, If you ever intend to do any formation flying (flying wing on a friend, or on a photo plane) you will rue the day you installed a push pull vernier control throttle. Nat ---------- > From: SWrightFLY@aol.com > To: Fritzx2@aol.com; canard-aviators@canard.com; CozyBldr@worldnet.att.net; cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant > Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 10:09 AM > > In a message dated 12/11/98 8:59:26 AM Central Standard Time, Fritzx2 writes: > > << Are you going to a veneer control? I had considered doing that so > when I bought all my Brock stuff, I didn't purchase the throttle quadrant. >> > Hi John > I am using a push-pull system of my own design. This is a good question for > the group. Where is the best place to purchase the system off the shelf? > Phone# and part# please. > Steve Wright > Stagger EZ > N700EZ From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:27:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant For Push-Pull controls: I went to the local truck equipment dealer, he handled cablecraft, don't tell them its for an airplane. I had the cables, more than long enough made up with one end installed, and other end pieces loose. Installed cable and determined actual length, and then had other end cut to length and pieces installed. There is a variety of end types and should determine what you need. Cablecraft makes aircraft cables to order, and I would seriously consider that the way to go. I have heard they give one or 2 day service. Remember if one of these breaks, its equal to an engine failure. From: "Nat Puffer" Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:57:39 -0600 John, I have many hours of formation flying in the Navy, both day and night, and many hours of flying wing on photo planes, and have been complimented many times on how well I keep the airplane in position. It's a matter of constantly moving the throttle, and depending on how skillful you are, it can require some pretty wide swings. Only the lead plane can keep a constant throttle setting. If you haven't had to do this, you will just have to take my word for it. Nat ---------- > From: Fritzx2@aol.com > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant > Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 3:16 PM > > Nat wrote: > > >If you ever intend to do any formation flying (flying wing on a friend, or > >on a photo plane) you will rue the day you installed a push pull vernier > >control throttle. > > Thanks for the tip Nat, but why? It would seem that fine adjustments > would be better handled by a true vernier control. I would > agree that a simple push/pull control without vernier might not > be as easy to use as the plans rotating lever. Also, on a > true vernier control I could see where larger control inputs > accomplished by squeezing the center vernier release button > might not be as precise as a rotating lever but if it is a large > throttle position change in the first place, you probably aren't > needing it to be that precise anyway. I have only ever used a > rotating lever in the planes I have flown (production). What experiences > has anyone else had - good or bad? Please include reasons > even if it is subjective. Thanks. > > John Fritz > Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:10:56 -0500 From: Jeff Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant > Cablecraft makes aircraft cables to order, and I would seriously consider that the way to go. I have > heard they give one or 2 day service. Cablecraft is what we used. Just dial in your settings and it's as smooth as it can get. Formation flying is no problem with a dial in cable :-) -- Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc. E-mail: Jeff@aerocad.com 2954 Curtis King Blvd. Ft. Pierce, FL. 34946 Shop# 561-460-8020 7:00am to 3:30pm Home# 561-334-6200 Website: http://www.Aerocad.com Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:06:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: throttle quadrant I use the Brock quadrant with cablecraft push/pull controls for trottle and mixture. The alternate air (injected) is still bowden. For the push/pull, I replaced the brock levers with ones with a tab extending down, with a hole that is vertical down with the lever mid travel position. The mixture cable makes a 180 turn in the engine compartment to provide correct travel. The system is very precise, smooth and light friction, but Doesn't meet Burt's criteria, throw it into the air, if it comes down its too heavy. Yes they are nice but heavy. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:20:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant Jeff Russell wrote Mine are not vernier, I use the Brock quadrant with modified levers. Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:06:41 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant Hunter, re "Is the lack of "formation flying" the only drawback on this??" No. I considered it for about 45 seconds and decided I did not need the cable doing a 180° turn somewhere forward of the instrument panel before heading back toward the engine. Also, I did not want my MKIV panel looking anything like a Cessna. Real airplanes use a lever throttle. dd From: NICEEZ@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:11:13 EST Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant In a message dated 12/11/98 3:52:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, cdenk@ix.netcom.com writes: << Cablecraft makes aircraft cables to order, and I would seriously consider that the way to go. I have heard they give one or 2 day service. Remember if one of these breaks, its equal to an engine failure. >> Unless you built in a system (spring loaded) to bring the throttle and mixture to there highest setting in the case of broken cable. I found out it works with the Morse cable used in the boat industry. Dale From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:12:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant Domeier writes The forward ends of my cables are straight connected directly to revised brock levers with tab sticking out bottom of quadrant. The mixture makes a 180 in the engine compartment to perserve the normal mixture, back is lean/cutoff. The trottle to the bendix injector is nearly arrow straight all the way. Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:20:37 -0800 From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant (Cablecraft) The "main" Cablecraft office is in Tacoma, WA and since this is close to where I live, that's where I got mine last summer. The Cozy plans call for a specific part number, but the minute they heard it was for a plane, they would not sell me the listed cable and instead substituted ones that were more fire resisitant. I don't remember the statistics, just that they cost more. After ordering them, they fax your order to their factory in South Carolina and it's two weeks until they ship - period. What I have found out since is that Cablecraft also sells their parts all over the country and that you can get them made locally in a day or so and decide for yourself if you want to pay for the "aircraft quality upgrade". I'm sure with a little digging, builders could find these close to home. The place I will buy from next time if I need to is Instrument Sales and Service, they are an authorized Cable Craft vendor. Clayton is the guy to talk with, they are located in Kent, WA. (1-800-444-7976) Eric Westland Mukilteo, WA (Closer to Kent than Tacoma as it turns out) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:08:51 -0800 From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant (Cablecraft) RoyN9869L@aol.com wrote: > Eric, > > What was the cost of the Cablecraft non aviation as oppose to the aviation > grade? you didn't say thanks I don't remember the cost difference if I ever knew it, like I said, they would not consider selling me the parts spelled out in the plans. However, it probably wasn't terribly higher, it was the three weeks it took to get them to my door that bugged me the most. What I got was a cable of about 7' with threaded ends for the throttle and I got a venier knobbed cable for the mixture, 12 feet or so. The first was about $80 and the second $120. None of these numbers are firm as I don't have the invoice in front of me, but it gives you some idea. The are very nice cables. Another possibility is ordering from Vans. Their catalog does not say they are Cablecraft, but the part numbers sure look like it and the prices are less. I have no idea what the time to get them is. Their cables are at http://209.52.184.209/sections/catalog/vac-pg33.pdf. Eric Westland Mukilteo, WA From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:27:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Throttle quadrant Jbullens wrote It was Universal Joint service of Cleveland Ohio. I couldn't find them quickly in the current phone yellow pages. Try, not the local auto parts, but that is exclusively in the heavy truck equipment, hydraulics, driveline and suspension, possible sell truck bodies and install. Ask you local truck repair garage, or heavy equipment (Cat, Deere, etc) dealer. As I said I would suggest checking out the aircraft cablecraft.