From: Cozy7971@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:12:22 EST Subject: COZY: Landing Light and antenna placement In the interest of preventing someone else from making the same mistake I did, I advise taking care in the placement of the vee shaped foil antenna in the botton of the fuselage. I never considered the location of the landing light when I built the bottom of the fuselage. I suggest reading ahead and noting the position of the landing light. I had to locate mine about .5 inch outboard of the desired location to avoid cutting my antenna. It came out OK but it would have been better if I had located the antenna an inch or two further forward. As an idle thought, you might consider making the cutour for the light at the same time that you are laying up the bottom. I think it might result in an easier and neater job. Dick Finn From: "Steve Campbell" Subject: RE: COZY: Landing Light and antenna placement Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:58:16 On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:12:22 EST, Cozy7971@aol.com wrote... >In the interest of preventing someone else from making the same mistake I >did, ... >Dick Finn I had the same experience just last week. I didn't flip the fuse over before I cut (major mistake, BTW) and I came right to the edge of the copper tape. I was extremely lucky that I didn't cut through it. Be careful at this step. Steve ************************************************ Stephen A. Campbell, Professor, ECE University of Minnesota 200 Union Street Minneapolis 55455 (612) 625-5876 phone / (612) 625-4583 fax Campbell@ece.umn.edu ************************************************* Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:07:43 -0500 From: Tom Brusehaver Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 6: My experience with the fuselage bottom >Incidentally, sitting on a stool with the work at a pleasant height (the >fuselage was on sawhorses) wasn't bad; in fact, I think it's nicer than >bending over the side to do them as I had for the bulkheads to the sides. >My wife handed me the pre-wetted out strips as I needed them, so no >constant crawling out to get the next one. All ya need is a worklight. I didn't get to taping right away, mostly on purpose, I didn't like the idea of sitting under the tub with epoxy dripping down on me. I started taping the inside, but ran out of BID (like you :-). I flipped the tub over while waiting for the stuff to arrive from Wicks, and while I was waiting I started shaping. I got into chapter 7 and did the whole bottom. I started on the sides and learned something really handy. You can reach most of the airplane while the airplane is on it's side. Even under the seat back! Getting into the littlest places is easy with the tub on its side. No bending required, if you have the tub at a pleasant height. Sure you will probably have to rotate it do do the "other side", but you have to anyway. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:09:41 -0500 From: Darren DeLoach Subject: COZY: Chap 7 Question The plans say to micro a 1" urethane piece on the outside of the plywood braces in the area around the LG bulkheads. For the four triangular pieces of plywood, does that mean I cut four triangular pieces of foam of the same dimension, or should it be two rectangular pieces which span all the way from one LG bulkhead to the other? -- Darren DeLoach Sales & Software http://www.deloach.com From: Don Bowen Subject: RE: COZY: Chap 7 Question Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:56:16 -0700 When I did this step, I micro'd in 1 piece (rectangular shape) of urethane foam between the LG bulkheads. Actually, this involves 2 rectangular pieces (one on the left and one on the right). This foam will protrude beyond the fuselage contour. Later on you will sand this down to match the contour of the LG bulkheads. Not saying that triangular shapes wouldn't work, I just put in retangular pieces because it seemed to be the simplest way to go. My two cents worth, Don Bowen Cozy Mk IV s/n 440 Chapter 9 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Chap 7 Question Date: Tue, 2 Jun 98 14:04:53 EDT Darren DeLoach asks; >The plans say to micro a 1" urethane piece on the outside of the plywood >braces in the area around the LG bulkheads. For the four triangular pieces >of plywood, does that mean I cut four triangular pieces of foam of the same >dimension, or should it be two rectangular pieces which span all the way >from one LG bulkhead to the other? Doesn't matter much. You're going to cut most of them away later on when you carve your fuselage shape and fit your landing gear strut - as long as there's enough foam there so that you don't have a large gap between the strut and the fuselage, you'll be fine. I actually found that I had to cut away a bit of the plywood pieces to get the strut to fit in place. So, I'd recommend either two or four oversize pieces. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Fritzx2@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:47:32 EDT Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 7 Question In a message Darren Deloach writes: > The plans say to micro a 1" urethane piece on the outside of the plywood > braces in the area around the LG bulkheads. For the four triangular pieces > of plywood, does that mean I cut four triangular pieces of foam of the same > dimension, or should it be two rectangular pieces which span all the way > from one LG bulkhead to the other? I microed 4 triangular pieces of foam slightly larger than the triangular plywood that prodruded out further than a straight edge that traced the gap between the front and aft LGB. I had about an inch gap between the triangular pieces of plywood/foam when finished. John Fritz fritzx2@aol.com From: "Chorley, Will" Subject: NACA Scoop Design Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:11:42 -0500 Marc, I cannot get to the mailing list at the moment and I wondered if you would post this query for me please. (I am a member of the mailing list!) Does anyone have design information on NACA air Scoops? I would like to know the co-ordinates for the curved intake, and the recommended height/width ratio. Also, what's the best transition from the rectangular "outlet" to a round section hose connection? Please reply to anneandwill@worldnet.att.net Thanks, Will From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: COZY: Chapter 7 Inquisitive How-to's Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:11:41 -0400 Okay, my turn in the barrel... I'm getting ready to forge ahead with Chapter 7. There are a lot of good suggestions and I want to ensure I understand their intents: 1. Use NACA scoop dimensions and trim bulkheads to fit. (okay, understand that). 2. On NACA scoop, the "flox shoulders" must be square. Okay, understand that, but what about the corners formed at the junction of the urethane foam and the PVC foam at the ramp section on the fuselage bottom... square or radiused with micro? If radiused, at what dimension? 3. NAV antenna on the bottom facing Cessna (aft) or Mooney (fwd). Avoid the landing brake, landing light, and nose gear cut-out. Jim Wier (?) says to put marker beacon antenna on bottom and put NAV antenna elsewhere. Where? In the underside of the wing? If I follow the plans and put NAV antenna in the bottom, where do the marker beacon and glideslope antennas go? 4. Landing gear cover and joggles extend to the little A & B birch triangles, which are very near where the middle of the landing gear strut will be. Everything else gets cosmetically covered later. (okay, understand that) 5. Need to fwd taper the sides of F22 to be flush with fuselage sides. As you sand out the 1/16th depressions you should make corresponding depressions in F22. (okay, understand that.) 6. Think about sanding in a slight depression along the sides to "hide" the overlaps formed when the side glass is layed up over the bottom glass. If I don't do this, how much of a bump is there, and how much micro fill-n-sand will there be? 7. As per plans, I micro'd in the 2-inch and 1-inch urethane foam for the NACA scoop, but when sanded down, I was slightly disappointed not to get the continuous, smooth transition from the landing brake area to the NACA foam that I was looking for. Grant it, the forward edge of the scoop foam feathered in great with the PVC foam, but if I lay a straight-edge across the area from just behind the landing brake onto the scoop foam, there is a gap about 8 inches long starting from 2 inches behind the landing brake to about halfway back on the scoop foam. Max height is about 1/4 inch located at the front edge of the scoop foam. Did your scoop do this? (The 10%-er in me says that this is perfectly acceptable and will still be cosmetically appealing. The other 90%-er in me wants the smoothest-possible, continuously-curving line from pitot tube to spinner...) If I go with the 90%-er's opinion, I'd like to add some more urethane foam forward of the scoop foam, then re-sand. I'd rather do this 30-minute job than apply gobs of micro during finishing. Opinions? Am I wasting my time? 8. I also don't have a good appreciation for the flow of cosmetic lines from the brake to the spinner because I've not gotten past staring at Chris Scida's instrument panel :-) . And the canard.com fly-in won't happen soon enough for me to look at other Cozy's to see for myself. It seems to me that to sand down the urethane blocks to that mythical continuously-curving, appealing look, you'd have to sand all the blocks with a flexible board taking into account the lower cowl. What did ya'll do? 9. What is a NACA Scoop extension? 10. Any other Chapter 7 tricks of the trade? (thanx, bil kleb :-) ) __________________________________________ L. Wayne Hicks SpaceTec, Inc. Sr. Engineer 3221 North Armistead Ave 757-865-0900 phone Hampton, VA 23666 757-865-8960 fax http://www.spacetec-inc.com Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:48:55 -0500 From: Tom Brusehaver Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 7 Inquisitive How-to's >3. NAV antenna on the bottom facing Cessna (aft) or Mooney (fwd). Avoid >the landing brake, landing light, and nose gear cut-out. Jim Wier (?) says >to put marker beacon antenna on bottom and put NAV antenna elsewhere. > Where? In the underside of the wing? If I follow the plans and put NAV >antenna in the bottom, where do the marker beacon and glideslope antennas >go? I don't think you want to put nav and marker beacon antenna in fuse. There is LOTS of room for antenna in wings. You could put MB in wings or strake. I put mine in the fuselage, and will put 2 NAV antenna in wings. >6. Think about sanding in a slight depression along the sides to "hide" >the overlaps formed when the side glass is layed up over the bottom glass. > If I don't do this, how much of a bump is there, and how much micro >fill-n-sand will there be? If you do a good overlap on the sides (like it says, 1inch/1inch) you shouldn't have any bump. Easier said than done. I was thinking about this the other day while worring about weight. I used to not think that making the 1in overlaps bigger would hurt anything. But then something clicked, if I put more than what the plans say, I am making the plane heavier. Never do less, and probably don't ever do more. >7. As per plans, I micro'd in the 2-inch and 1-inch urethane foam for the >NACA scoop, but when sanded down, I was slightly disappointed not to get >the continuous, smooth transition from the landing brake area to the NACA > .. >at the front edge of the scoop foam. Did your scoop do this? yes >10. Any other Chapter 7 tricks of the trade? When you glass the sides, have the tub as low as you can have it. Use the clamp jig similiar to what is in the plans. Do all the inside taping (ch 6) while the tub is on it's side, you can actually reach inside! Draw your 30/45degree lines on the foam to help align the fibers. From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: RE: COZY: RE: Drawing Accuracy Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:46:34 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Don Bowen [SMTP:DonBow@symix.com] Sent: Friday, September 18, 1998 12:41 PM To: 'cozy_builders@canard.com' Subject: COZY: RE: Drawing Accuracy I think this group has spent too much time bashing Nat and not enough time working on their airplanes. Don Bowen Cozy Mk IV s/n 440 [L. Wayne Hicks] I also think we don't spend enough time studying the plans. After submitting my Chapter 7 questions to the group this morning, I re-read Chapter 7 during lunch (Thai food, yum, yum). Lo' and behold, right there was a sketch of the NACA scoop showing to ramp corners rounded with micro. Humbling to say the least. Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:33:23 -0400 From: Rob Cherney Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 7 Inquisitive How-to's At 09:48 AM 9/18/98 -0500, Tom Brusehaver wrote: >I don't think you want to put nav and marker beacon antenna in fuse. >There is LOTS of room for antenna in wings. You could put MB in wings >or strake. I put mine in the fuselage, and will put 2 NAV antenna in >wings. The optimum orientation for the marker beacon antenna is with the radiating elements parallel to the roll axis of the airplane. This usually means in the fuselage. Rob- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Robert Cherney Home Phone: (410)465-5598 | |Ellicott City, Maryland e-mail: cherney@home.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:46:13 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 7 Inquisitive How-to's Wayne, re "The other 90%-er in me wants the smoothest-possible, continuously-curving line from pitot tube to spinner...) If I go with the 90%-er's opinion, I'd like to add some more urethane foam forward of the scoop foam, then re-sand. I'd rather do this 30-minute job than apply gobs of micro during finishing. Opinions? Am I wasting my time? .... I also don't have a good appreciation for the flow of cosmetic lines from the brake to the spinner because I've not gotten past staring at Chris Scida's instrument panel :-)" Just my 2 cents worth, I'm sure you'll be more satisfied with your airplane if you follow the "other 90%", but quite frankly, I did not see anyone on their back at OSH under an airplane checking the flow from the brake to the spinner. Mine is not as smooth as it could be, but at 10,000' and 175k TAS, who can tell? I wish I had the patience to build the "cosmeticly perfect airplane", but I know me, I don't. I'd much rather be flying than building forever.... Are you wasting your time? It's your time, I think not. You won't be satisfied if you do not build it to your very high standards. (engineers are that way - I have one living next door and he built a deck that looks like a piece of furniture - I built a deck also at the same time and mine looks like a deck) Perhaps one thing you could think about - only 15% of the people who start a plans built project ever finish it. One reason it doesn't get finished, I think, is the perfectionist in some of us. It's never quite good enough and ends up stashed away gathering dust or sold rather than logging time in the air. I think the reason I have gotten 2 of these machines flying was the obsession of not being one the 85% who did not. That, in my opinion, is a better ending than having the "perfect" unfinished project. I never criticize anyone's airplane at OSH or Sun'n'Fun....just to have flown the thing there is an accomplishment even though it may look like a sow's ear. No doubt there is a feeling, "I'd rather not be there in such a machine...". but then that's a personal choice. There are perfectionsists and there are grass roots pilots who care not about cosmetics. I think many of us are somewhere between these extremes and do get these machines flying successfully as a result. If your instrument panel is off .2", flox it in tape it, and forget about it. Once your start flying, you'll never think about it again. dd From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:05:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 7 Inquisitive How-to's Domeier writes One needs to make some judgements, many times the cosmetic imperfection hurts performance. i.e. a paint thickness jog in the prop leading edge causes loss of 8 knots! From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: COZY: Best How-to for Fuselage Layups? Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:16:01 -0400 I'm ready to do the 2-UND bottom fuselage layups (Chapter 7). It is suggested to end the cloth at the corners and to overlap the layers by 1 inch to alleviate the "bump". I understand all this, but I'm having trouble envisioning a slick way to lay/wet out the cloth, then trimming at the corners real nice and neat: A. How does one achieve the straight line at the corners? B. Do you overlap the second layer one inch past the first, or visa versa? C. What defines "the corner"?. Do the bottom layups stop before, up to, or past the lower longerons (and if so, how far onto the sides)? D. How do you trim out the area at the birch A & B triangles between the LG bulkheads? Please, I'm not asking for theory, I'm asking for tricks of the trade. Left to my own demise, this would be my plan: 1. Apply a strip of duct tape longitudinally straight onto the fuselage sides about one inch past the lower longerons. Use these as guides. 2. Apply the first layer and wet out to within one inch on the duct tape guides. 3. Apply masking tape onto the non-wetted area of the glass using the duct tape as a guide. 4. Wet out the cloth up to the masking tape. 5. Scissor-trim at the masking tape -- should leave a nice straight edge? 6. Apply new strips of duct tape one inch lower than the first layer of glass, then slurry this new area. 7. Apply second layer and repeat 2-6. See you at the Canard.Com fly-in! __________________________________________ L. Wayne Hicks SpaceTec, Inc. Sr. Engineer 3221 North Armistead Ave 757-865-0900 phone Hampton, VA 23666 757-865-8960 fax http://www.spacetec-inc.com Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:56:57 -0500 From: Tom Brusehaver Subject: Re: COZY: Best How-to for Fuselage Layups? >A. How does one achieve the straight line at the corners? I didn't worry about perfectly straight. I really like your duct tape idea. >B. Do you overlap the second layer one inch past the first, or visa >versa? I did it with the first layer 1 inch past the first. I thought this way when I did the sides, there would be more to grab on to. >C. What defines "the corner"?. Do the bottom layups stop before, up to, >or past the lower longerons (and if so, how far onto the sides)? I guessed on this too I think I read somewhere that the lower longerons were where to measure from. It is where the bottom ends and the sides start. It gets kinda obscure towards the rear with all the NACA duct and LG stuff. >D. How do you trim out the area at the birch A & B triangles between the >LG bulkheads? Don't worry about it. Between CH 7 side layups, and CH 9 reinforcement layups, it'll get taken care of. I put some foam in there and carved it, but I think there will be a fairing covering this up anyhow. >1. Apply a strip of duct tape longitudinally straight onto the fuselage >sides about one inch past the lower longerons. Use these as guides. I really like this idea. From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: COZY: Step Reinforcement Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:58:58 -0400 For the retractable step, do you still have to install the wood reinforcement block under the lower port longeron as for the brock step (Chapter 7)? __________________________________________ L. Wayne Hicks SpaceTec, Inc. Sr. Engineer 3221 North Armistead Ave 757-865-0900 phone Hampton, VA 23666 757-865-8960 fax http://www.spacetec-inc.com From: hillmanj@wavefront.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:49:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Step Reinforcement [The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] To all "retractable step" interested parties, I have pic's of mine at http://www.wavefront.com/~hillmanj/long.html At 08:42 PM 10/21/98 -0400, Vance Atkinson wrote: >[The Canard Aviators's Mailing list] > >To all "retractable step" interested parties, I have had a retractable >step on my COZY 12 years ago, that works well and is simple to make. > >It is a tube within a tube. It mounts on to the bottom of the instrument >panel with bid and some flox, no other mod is required. Its simple to >make and sturdy. Some have modified this to open and close with the >canopy. The biggest problem I find is, after landing I find out its >still hanging out, I forgot to retract it !! If you want a set of free >one page plans you can send me a self-addressed envelope and I will send >you a copy back. > >Vance Atkinson 3604 Willomet Ct Bedford TX, >76021 > >"L. Wayne Hicks" wrote: >> >> For the retractable step, do you still have to install the wood >> reinforcement block under the lower port longeron as for the brock step >> (Chapter 7)? >> >> __________________________________________ >> L. Wayne Hicks SpaceTec, Inc. > > > \ >->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-|- > / >For details on sponsors of this list, copyrights, and how to remove >yourself from this list, please visit: > >http://www.canard.com/ca-ending.html > >(c) 1997,1998 Canard Aviators. support@canard.com > / > -|-<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > \ > > From: ERacerVinn@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 05:21:46 EDT Subject: Re: [canard-aviators] Re: COZY: Step Reinforcement Canardians, A few years ago I slobbered and gawked all over Vance's beautiful Cozy at Jackpot. Vance showed me his nifty step, I really liked it so I had to copy it, or at least as well as my memory would allow. I made a drawing of my installation. It works well and was tested by my 260 pound brother-in-law. If memory serves, Vance located his on the forward side of the instrument panel. But the E-Racer has a forward hinged canopy so I located my step farther aft. My installation will need a notch in the seat to allow the handle to operate. Thanks to Vance for a really neat idea. The drawing is in JPeG form and is available at http://www.eracer.org/hangar_html/Graphics/step11.jpg And now for the disclaimer: The drawing and design is not fully tested for all safety aspects, use at your own risk. Yours truly, Bruce Vinnola From: "L. Wayne Hicks" Subject: COZY: Moving on to Chapter 8 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:16:12 -0500 Cozyites: Sat in my fuselage and made the obligatory varoom noises last night. I have the following lessons learned: 1. I sized the urethane foam blocks for the NACA scoop to the plans dimensions, but fell a few inches short of being perfectly flush with the rest of the fuselage bottom. I was unhappy with this, so I added two small blocks and resanded flush. There's no way to atone for this in the plans as I'm sure everyone's bottom curvature is slightly different. 2. I should have paid more attention to how the birch triangle pieces (C and D) fit together. I ended up with a gap at the rear corner that I filled and feathered with micro. 3. I lost 5 days worrying about whether to put the VOR or marker beacon antenna in the fuselage. I should have just followed the plans and saved myself the time. If marker beacons are still around in 4 years, I'll just put one on the strake or in the wing. 4. I wanted to put a retractable step in, so I lost more days wondering about whether or not to install the wood reinforcement piece. The reason I wanted a retract step has nothing to do with the 0.001% aerodynamic drag of the brock step as much as it was that it bit a chunk out of my shin the first time I walked up to a Cozy on the flight line. In retrospect, the brock step is indeed a very simple solution, so I ended up glassing in the wood reinforcement. One note: from the drawing in the plans, I was expecting that piece to be fairly substantial in thickness. After carving out the foam, I realized that the piece for my plane would be rather thin. It almost wasn't worth the effort and might have been easier just to fill the space with flox. Again, the thickness will vary from plane to plane. 5. Carving the fuselage bottom and sides was fun, but tough and challenging! The challenge comes in trying to get good curves in the transitions between the PVC foam and the urethane foam. The urethane foam is sooooo soft that just looking at it too long would take it down an eighth of an inch! After roughing in the corners with the belt sander, I used a three-foot poplar sanding plank to finish up. I highly suggest this. The length gives you excellent control. I always focused on shaping the PVC part first. For final shaping of the urethane foam, I used a belt sander belt recently suggested by one of our brilliant builders. I bought a 3x24 inch, 100 grit belt sanding belt, cut it crosswise, then used a gentle buffing motion until I got the curved shape I wanted in the urethane foam. Buffing straight up and down would cut deep; buffing at small angles to the longerons resulted in good, rounded curves. Anyway, I really want to thank that guy who posted the note about using the belt sander belt. I also want to thank Marc for his Chapter 7 web pictures. I was able to double-check my carving work. Now I know why his fuselage looks so blue! Total Chapter 7 time was 58 hours. On to Chapter 8! Wayne Hicks Cozy IV #678 Chapter 7 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:08:56 -0800 From: "LCDR James D. Newman" Subject: COZY: Re: Ok Fine Hi Jeb and All, > I am going to glass the outside of one of my (the planes') sides this weekend. Now would be the time to install the rudder cable tubing and brake lines in tube conduits in the wall, and vacuum line tubing and 1" conduits in the floor for electrical, and any other tubing in the walls and floor (like hydraulics, extra wiring, etc.) before glassing the outside of the fuselage. Infinity's Forever, JD From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:36:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Ok Fine Jeb Butler wrote The Thursday before the Saturday that I did my fuselage outside was our Eaa chapter meeting, I mentioned if anyone wanted to come over, watch, help, or whatever, they were welcome. Had at 8:30am 8 people, 2 regular helpers and 6 new. Taught how to mix epoxy, micro and flox. Was neat with so many hands to stretch the glass and lay it down in exactly the right location with all fibers straight. THe fuselage was on a spit, with a C-clamp to keep from rolling. We did one side and half bottom, broke for lunch, did the rest of bottom and other side. Done by 2:30PM. That was with on 2 people that had come near fiberglass and epoxy before.