Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:27:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Gunrider@aol.com Subject: COZY: RELIEF tube Hi Guys, Just thought since there hasn't been any mail recently, I'd tap the minds of you cranially gifted homebuilders to see if anyone has incorporated a ... relief system into their aircraft that wouldn't perfume their prop. You don't have to admit this, just say a "friend of mine did it." No jokes about suction etc... OK I'll sign this. Hugh Farrior - Tampa Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:11:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: COZY: RELIEF tube At 11:27 97/4/19 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Guys, > Just thought since there hasn't been any mail recently, I'd tap the minds of >you cranially gifted homebuilders to see if anyone has incorporated a ... >relief system into their aircraft that wouldn't perfume their prop. You >don't have to admit this, just say a "friend of mine did it." No jokes >about suction etc... >OK I'll sign this. >Hugh Farrior - Tampa > This does not ANSWER your question directly. I considered putting a nylon tube that ran down the back gear leg. However, actual use would seem to be awkward and raises the questions of totally flushing the tube after using it (could be done on the ground). I decided that since I prefer to stop and stretch anyway, I did not put the tube in. Will take some sort of large mouth open jar just in case I suppose and not drink cokes prior to flight. I will sign this: Another guy with a small bladder Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:04:04 -0700 From: berkut@loop.com Subject: Re: COZY: RELIEF tube One Long EZ I know has a relief tube that goes all the way down the gear leg and exits the TE of the wheel pant. Advantage - it won't splash the prop. Disadvantage - if it's cold enough, the material in question will freeze solid in the tube, leaving you with a funnel full in the front seat. More likely with an aluminum tube, as it was in this case. I use a Pampers in a ziplock bag. >Hi Guys, > Just thought since there hasn't been any mail recently, I'd tap the minds of >you cranially gifted homebuilders to see if anyone has incorporated a ... >relief system into their aircraft that wouldn't perfume their prop. You >don't have to admit this, just say a "friend of mine did it." No jokes >about suction etc... >OK I'll sign this. >Hugh Farrior - Tampa > > -- Richard Riley Renaissance Composites, Inc. 3025 Airport Ave Santa Monica CA 90405 310.391.1943 "Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" Jack Warner, 1928 See the Berkut at http://www.berkut.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 02:10:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SMilesCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: RELIEF tube In a message dated 97-04-19 11:32:03 EDT, you write: > I'd tap the minds of > you cranially gifted homebuilders to see if anyone has incorporated a ... > relief system into their aircraft Hugh, If ever I get started on my airplane, aarghh, I plan to incorporate a 3/8 plastic hose, run down the length of the fuselage, through the aft bulkhead, and down the trailing edge of the gear, terminating out the bottom of the wheel pants. I'll leave about two feet extra coiled under each seat with a funnel, in a zip lock bag, to fit into the hose. After using I'll rinse it out with vinegar and water. This setup together with long range fuel tanks, ala Mike Melvill, should make for some extremely long legs, and interesting journeys. These are not original, "cranially gifted" ideas, they are taken from my incomplete collection entitled "it looked like a good idea at the time" :^) A most valuable tool, I'm sure everyone has something similar. Hope this helps, let us know what you do, and if it works the way you intended. Sincerely, Steve Miles Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 08:34:23 -0700 From: Mahan Subject: COZY: RELIEF tube A friend flys a Long-EZ in Scotland. He installed a relief tube, but gave up on it and carries a bottle instead. Seems that the relief tube, which runs down the gear leg, exits out the bottom of the wheel pant, and has the bottom of the tube cut at an angle facing backwards, won't drain while flying! The "funnel" just fills up. It doesn't "back up," but it doesn't drain either, even though it works fine on the ground. Stange! Fred in Florida Long-EZ N86LE Defiant project berkut@loop.com wrote: > > One Long EZ I know has a relief tube that goes all the way down the gear leg > and exits the TE of the wheel pant. Advantage - it won't splash the prop. > Disadvantage - if it's cold enough, the material in question will freeze > solid in the tube, leaving you with a funnel full in the front seat. More > likely with an aluminum tube, as it was in this case. > > I use a Pampers in a ziplock bag. > > >Hi Guys, > > Just thought since there hasn't been any mail recently, I'd tap the minds of > >you cranially gifted homebuilders to see if anyone has incorporated a ... > >relief system into their aircraft that wouldn't perfume their prop. You > >don't have to admit this, just say a "friend of mine did it." No jokes > >about suction etc... > >OK I'll sign this. > >Hugh Farrior - Tampa Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:51:56 -0400 (EDT) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: RELIEF tube Hello all, It seems to me that the idea of a relief tube might be a case of over engineering. While I haven't got mine up yet (the plane that is), I plan to use a urinal with a cap. Dick Finn Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:29:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Pmsunset@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: RELIEF tube Dear Group, There was a builder from TN at Sun 'N Fun who was in a red and white MkIII. His name escapes me at the moment, but he was working on an altitude hold system in conjunction with his Navaid wing-leveler. It was a small wing surface under the RH side of the canard. Anyway, we got into a discussion on relief tubes, he said that he had just finished running one to the trailing edge of his wheel pant (RH) and curiously enough the end result wound up on the canopy in flight. Don't ask me how.... Eddie in AL Cozy MKIV No. 610 by SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-8 #16063) with SMTP id <01IHYTQZH5MM002TR1@SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:22:12 PDT Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:23:15 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: RELIEF tube >Dear Group, >There was a builder from TN at Sun 'N Fun who was in a red and white MkIII. > His name escapes me at the moment, but he was working on an altitude hold >system in conjunction with his Navaid wing-leveler. It was a small wing >surface under the RH side of the canard. Anyway, we got into a discussion on >relief tubes, he said that he had just finished running one to the trailing >edge of his wheel pant (RH) and curiously enough the end result wound up on >the canopy in flight. Don't ask me how.... > > >Eddie in AL >Cozy MKIV No. 610 I think this certainly speaks well of testing with water! I ran 1/4 polyflow down the gearleg with the intention of venting it out the wheel pant TE, also. I remember a beautiful grand champ EZ with unique wheel pants that were extraordinarily low drag, owner designed. Their most notable feature was incorporated to allow for good chimney cooling of the brakes on the ground. They were simply open tubes, at the trailing edge. The hole size was perhaps more than a couple of square inches. They worked great. I wonder if positioning the relief tube to exit in the center of these "holes" would result in a venturi effect. Perhaps the most sensible way to learn the truth would be to place the exit point in several locations on the pant, and check the pressure with a sensitive vacuum gage. If anyone has a setup that works really well, I'd like to hear about it. I have always wondered if my 1/4 inch line would drain fast enough, and how much pressure drop was really required. --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-5 #17060) with SMTP id <01IHZ2W4A7N6AH4AA7@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:43:36 EST Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:44:33 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: Re: COZY: RELIEF tube Organization: AEROCAD INC. Pmsunset@aol.com wrote: the canopy in flight. Don't ask me how....> I have that problem when I do a reverse loop and then a split-S. Other than that I just use a bottle sitting sideways??? -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:21:37 -0400 (EDT) From: RGCardinal@aol.com Subject: COZY: Relief tubes and things A few thoughts from a mind that should be idle--but isn't. It occurs to me that the basic idea of venting a relief tube through a wheel pant has merit. Two problems that appear to stand in the way of relief; Negative pressure to assure evacuation of the device Insuring that the device's contents doesn't freeze at higher altitudes--ie: longer flights when needed the most Anyone given any thought to installing a small venturi inside the aft end of the wheel pant--inlet on top and exhaust to the rear--to generate the required suction. doesnt need to be too big. one could either heat the line that goes down the gear leg or install a holding tank somewhere in the aircraft so that nothing is vented overboard at all, but negative pressure is applied to the tank while the aircraft is in flight. Once back on the ground, and nessesities taken care of, the tank could be emptied in an aceptable manner. Food for thought folks. thanks for your time. You'll excuse me now but I've got to go. Robert Kittler SN # 589 Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 10:17:31 +0200 From: Tim Smith Subject: COZY: Relief tubes and things -Reply Mail from Robert Kittler ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Anyone given any thought to installing a small venturi inside the aft end of the wheel pant--inlet on top and exhaust to the rear--to generate the required suction. doesn't need to be too big. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The cargo version of the DC-3 / C-47 Dakota has a venturi mounted under the fuselage behind the tail-wheel for that purpose, This might be an idea worth looking into :-) Tim Smith smithtm@telkom.co.za