Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:39:47 -0600 (CST) From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Subject: COZY: Cosy operating Costs Prehaps I should clarify. But I assume that after building a project, one is going to use it for the intended use: Fly! The several hundred dollars for some Brock parts is insignificant compared to construction costs over some years, but if that is an issue, here are actual operating costs based on 150 hours per year: Hanger Rent 12 Months $ 160.00 $ 1,920.00 Fuel 150 Hours $2 $ 300.00 Tires & Brakes 1 Annual $ 100.00 $ 100.00 Annual Inspection (Misc.) 1 Annual $200 $ 200.00 Repairs (Budget) 1 Annual $1,500 $ 1,500.00 Engine Oil 42 quarts $3 $ 126.00 Oil Filters 3 Each $11 $ 33.00 Static/altimeter inspection 120 Biannual $1 $ 60.00 IFR Charts (Sky prints) 1 Annual $ 350.00 $ 350.00 Airport Directory (Airguide) 3 Annual $25 $ 75.00 Sectional Charts 20 Annual $7.50 $ 150.00 Landing/parking fees 1 Annual $50.00 $ 50.00 Insurance 1 Annual $1,400 $ 1,400.00 Subtotal - Actual annual costs $ 6,264.00 Reserve for Engine Overhaul 150 hours $ 5.00 $ 750.00 Reserve for Propeller replacement150 hours $ 2.33 $ 350.00 Grand Total operating costs including reserve $ 7,364.00 The budget repairs for this year include: Skysports fuel gage unit $75, Vacuum Pump $500 (Sunday in Atlanta), Replace cracked cylinder $800 for a total of $1375. The hanger is the going rate close to home. Its a community (25 planes including a King Air and a Citation) hanger, heated, compressed air, water, and able to keep a tool box and bench directly behind airplane. The airport has ILS and 5000 ft. runway. Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 12:47:49 -0500 From: Ian Douglas Organization: WTC Subject: Re: COZY: Cosy operating Costs Re costs: > Hanger Rent 12 Months $ 160.00 $ 1,920.00 Who needs a hanger? Tie down is 30.00 per month. > Fuel 150 Hours $2 $ 300.00 Good deal wish I could get it so cheap. > Tires & Brakes 1 Annual $ 100.00 $ 100.00 Not if you are flying off a grass strip! > Annual Inspection (Misc.) 1 Annual $200 $ 200.00 Since you do it yourself, where does this cost come from? My Seneca went through two inspections and required no parts. > Repairs (Budget) 1 Annual $1,500 $ 1,500.00 Gawd your togh on an airplane. > Engine Oil 42 quarts $3 $ 126.00 Sounds right > Oil Filters 3 Each $11 $ 33.00 Good deal > Static/altimeter inspection 120 Biannual $1 $ 60.00 Yup > IFR Charts (Sky prints) 1 Annual $ 350.00 $ 350.00 Who needs them for fairweather flying? I get the maps required for the flight when needed (6.50 per map). I would never purposely fly single engine in IMC. > Airport Directory (Airguide) 3 Annual $25 $ 75.00 Buy it when needed. A current issue is not required if you phone ahead (incl alternate). Frequencies and runways don't change that often. If your flying to the same known places all the time again it is not required. A photo copy or hand written information from a current copy will do. > Sectional Charts 20 Annual $7.50 $ 150.00 Buy as needed > Landing/parking fees 1 Annual $50.00 $ 50.00 You are using expensive airports. Almost all airports I use have no fees. > Insurance 1 Annual $1,400 $ 1,400.00 Only if you are insuring the hull. Liability is the only REQUIRED form. > Reserve for Engine Overhaul 150 hours $ 5.00 $ 750.00 Do it yourself and save $12,000 or have your local AME do it (we can do this in Canada for private registered Aircraft) and save $8,000. If the pistons, con rods, crank, jugs, etc. all measure and weigh within tollerances use them again! I have built over 20 car race engines over the years and have never had an old part (factory origional) fail. Majority of part failures are in the new (with planned obsolesance built in) parts. Of course almost all failures are due to operator error. I have seen high performance pistons get melted or holes blown in them but never a stock one. Valve guides get cooked when the engine is operated above approved temps, valves have got bent etc. If you realise that most enginges will continue to run with an internal failure (as long as oil is not puking out a gaping hole), you can get to a landing area safely without further damage to the engine than was already incurred during the initial failure. As an example, a Franklin 220 HP engine can have a top overhaul done for under 2000 dollars (I know, I saw one done by my AME) The privately registered Stinson Aircraft is flying and the engine runs like a top. You can overhaul an IO360 for as little as $5400.00 depending on the internals and this gives you a 0 time engine for a private aircraft in Canada (again my AME can do this). Since I feel quite at home working on engines I would not hesitate to rebuild one myself with the occasional supervision of my AME. Nigel uses the Subaru engines and I am sure that he would argue your numbers as well. > Reserve for Propeller replacement150 hours $ 2.33 $ 350.00 Carve your own. Nigel does, ask him what a prop costs. It sounds to me like you are running a flight school or commercial operation and not doing recreational flying. I will be flying my Cozy a max of about 50 hours a year, take it home during the winter months and most flying is for enjoyment which means mostly local area. I realise that the Cozy is designed for long cross country flying and that is one of the reasons I am building it. The other is because I love to fly (even in a 50 mile radius). I can go up for .5 of an hour just to zoom around and land at the same place. Did I require maps, charts or other info? Nope, hell I didn't even talk to a tower or get a transponder code. I have been in the expensive realm of flying with the charts, maps subscriptions, landing fees, annuals that cost a ton of cash, you want to spend money, buy a twin! The reason I sold the twin was it was extreemly expensive for fun flying and I only used it 6 to 7 times a year for business. For those flights I could have just bought the required documents as needed and saved $1000s. I can tell you that flying in IMC on a single engine would send the "pucker factor" sky rocketing esp. if I know I'm close to minimums. I think that flying ,for me any way, is something to be enjoyed. I will never fly on a "required" schedule again (If I HAVE to be there, I'll hop on a comercial flight first). Just my 0.02 worth. -- Ian D.S. Douglas MK0069 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:03:10 -0500 (EST) From: Nigel Field Subject: Re: COZY: Cosy operating Costs At 08:39 PM 11/22/97 -0600, Carl Dink wrote: ........ here are actual operating costs based >on 150 hours per year: Carl, You are spending _way_ too much to fly a Cozy. I think you got the wrong airplane. I fly about the same hours for one twentieth of that. You should look at a Mooney, a loaded one with all the do-dads, or no, I think a war bird would be better, yes a P-51, and you can join the Confederate airforce. They make everyone a Colonel. That should help you spend (waste) all that cash. Cheers, Nigel From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:29:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Cosy operating Costs NIGEL fIELD WRITES Stick to facts, Nigel, what are you costs itemized in similar format?? The only variables are insurance and hanger, other costs should be similar unless you need to buy only 2 sectionals for you home airport per year (who wants to do that). Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 19:01:22 -0800 From: "LCDR James D. Newman" Organization: INFINITY Aerospace http://www.flash.net/~infaero Subject: COZY: Re: Cosy operating Costs Hi Carl, Ian and All, >>Fuel 150 Hours $2 $300.00<< >Good deal wish I could get it so cheap.< This may be a case of engineering data not honest, but I think you are missing a zero. >>Tires & Brakes 1 Annual $100.00 $100.00<< >Not if you are flying off a grass strip!< And/or if you use MATCO brakes, Michelin tires that last 4+ times longer and have main gear that track straight ahead with no toe in or cant. Infinity's Forever, JD