Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:02:11 -0800 From: berkut@loop.com Subject: COZY: Canard insurance? Has anyone renewed their insurance lately, esp. hull? If so, who'd you use and how much did it cost? -- Czech Sikhs! Richard Riley "Heavier than air flying machines are impossible." Lord Kelvin, President, Royal Society, c 1895 See the Berkut at http://www.berkut.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:11:49 -0500 (EST) From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Canard insurance? In a message dated 3/26/97 9:01:52 PM, berkut@loop.com wrote: >Has anyone renewed their insurance lately, esp. hull? If so, who'd you use >and how much did it cost? I do not have anything to insure yet as I am not flying and covered by homeowners, but maybe you saw the same post on RAH that I did. I wrote the originator asking why he was having trouble getting hull insurance for lis EZ and what follows is what he wrote back to me (eric) : The problem appears to be how easy it is to total an EZ in a minor accident. The only way that they will renew my policy for the next year is to change the policy so that each component of the plane has a limited percent value of 100 percent of the hull coverage. For example, if your total hull coverage is say 40K and you needed to replace a wing, they would pay a maximum amount of 20% of the total hull coverage for the wing ($8,000). The same for the engine 20% and so on. The problem for them is that it is easier to just total the plane if much damage is done. They say this is mainly due to the limited number of people that can repair the planes outside of the original builder. If you have any suggestions, they would be appreciated. Thanks, Geryl Mortensen Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:47:40 -0500 From: Mahan Subject: Re: COZY: Canard insurance? I've never considered hull insurance, reasoning that if something gets broken, I have to fix it anyway. If you have hull insurance and, say, break a canard, who's going to build a new canard? You. My labor is "free" and the cost of the raw materials isn't that high, anyway. Fred in Florida Lonf-EZ N86LE berkut@loop.com wrote: > > Has anyone renewed their insurance lately, esp. hull? If so, who'd you use > and how much did it cost? > -- > Czech Sikhs! > > Richard Riley > > "Heavier than air flying machines are impossible." > Lord Kelvin, President, Royal Society, c 1895 > > See the Berkut at > http://www.berkut.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:56:13 -0800 From: berkut@loop.com Subject: Re: COZY: Canard insurance? One of my employees is trying to buy a flying Vari-EZ, and in order to finance it she has to have hull insurance. >I've never considered hull insurance, reasoning that if something gets >broken, I have to fix it anyway. If you have hull insurance and, say, >break a canard, who's going to build a new canard? You. My labor is >"free" and the cost of the raw materials isn't that high, anyway. > >Fred in Florida >Lonf-EZ N86LE by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-7 #17060) with SMTP id <01IKMEBDVNUK9EXD5F@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:15:44 EST Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:15:44 -0500 (EST) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net From: Nick Ugolini Subject: COZY: Insurance I finally have to purchase insurance for my plane (FBO requires it) and have a general question for the group. Q. Does anyone have a insurance company they can recommend? Thanks Nick Ugolini unick@mail.charleston.net Varieze N89RS LongEZ N29TM Cozy Mark IV #0264 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 13:48:17 -0400 (EDT) From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Insurance I highly recommend AVEMCO they were one of the first to cover canard aircraft and I found them to be very reasonable and provided good service. My EZE was covered for 10 years with them. Steve Wright Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:38:31 -0400 From: wilhelmson@scra.org Subject: Re: COZY: Insurance Nick: Over the years I have found the best way to get insurance on a airplane is to use a specialized broker. They know all the tricks of how to get the insurance for the least cost by shopping the market for you. I use Wenk Ins. in Chicago. Another point is that local insurance people (SC) are all in the pockets of the state goverment. The report every transaction to the state (for tax purposes) even if they are not equired to. I learned this the hard way when I first moved to SC. I promptly cancelled and went back to my out of state sources. Insurance in SC sucks! Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 08:17:59 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Insurance Nick Ugolinin asked: "Q. Does anyone have a insurance company they can recommend?" While I can't recommend any company, my recent search came up with only two companies willing to write policies on experimental aircraft. Avemco and Southern Aviation Bob Misterka N342RM Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 07:49:21 +0000 From: ROBERT BOUNDS Subject: Re: Q-LIST: insurance I carry liability insurance through an outfit called AON Risk Services on my Vari-Eze. I have 100 hours on the plane. $1,000,000 limit each occurance. Costs me $350 a year. They beat Avemco by a fair amount. AON phone # 800 835 2677 Bounds From: "Ian Martin" Subject: RE: COZY: Insurance Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:55:36 -0700 Hello Fellow Builders, Thought I pass this along. Last night was at the chapter 286 monthly meeting, our guest speaker was from Avemco Insurance. This was an informative and enjoyable presentation. The questions concerning cost and insurability seem worth passing on. First: Cozy aircraft have a good reputation with Avemco/National as do the LE,VE. If you are building a Cozy or modified Cozy they still put it in the Cozy category (looks like one, smells like one Hmmm, was the impression) So I guess we can keep Nat happy by not calling our mods a Cozy without seriously impacting our wallets. Avemco resists insuring one-offs (i.e. new designs) but documented modifications to existing designs are not considered one-offs even though they really are. Two: As mentioned in Nat's letter and EAA publications a 10% discount is applied to the premium if you are an "active" member of both a local chapter AND the national EAA org. Plus you get another 10% off if you have at least Three reviews and log entries by a tech counselor during the building process. Sorry no "after the fact" discounts ( EAA is trying to get the tech counselors more involved). If you do both of these things (active member & tech reviews) then Avemco will insure you for your first flight and beyond. If you do not then they will not insure you till after you have 10 hours on the plane. Three: Once you build your plane. Fly, fly, fly. For every 108 hours in your plane your premiums are reduced approximately 8%. Also during the building process try to get as many hours in a "friend's" cozy as possible. The method for determining your proficiency is Total time + time in type. There was a third addition but I was not able to get the relationship to a Cozy. So if you have 200 hrs total time but 100 hours of it was in a Cozy then Avemco considers you a 300 hr pilot for insurance reasons. Four: While waiting to talk with Mike (Avemco rep speaker) I happened to look in his book. The area of interest was a list of categories of risk and insurability. Some aircraft are prohibited from being insured about 25 I think( ie. White Lighting, Petrel) Others were considered very high risk. In this category there were about 10 aircraft listed. Of Note was that the Cozy was listed three times. All of the entries though only said that if you used Infinity gear you had to have the "modification". (JD what is the "modification" ?) Otherwise the Cozy aircraft is considered one of the better risks. This was a very pertinent presentation and I recommend that other chapters invite Avemco or other insurance folks to talk about this issue so near and dear to our wallets. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J. Ian Martin GreyStone Technology, Inc. Phone: (619) 874 - 7000 x184 4950 Murphy Canyon Rd. San Diego, CA. 92123 email: imartin@gstone.com Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 03:59:07 -0700 From: "LCDR James D. Newman" Organization: INFINITY Aerospace - http://www.flash.net/~infaero Subject: COZY: Re: Insurance Hi Ian and All, OBTW, excellent briefing and re-briefing on the insurance. >Four: ...In this category there were about 10 aircraft listed. Of Note was that the Cozy was listed three times. All of the entries though only said that if you used Infinity gear you had to have the "modification". (JD what is the "modification"?) Otherwise the Cozy aircraft is considered one of the better risks.< Thanks for giving me the opportunity to correct this misconception. I, in fact, just learned yesterday of this "modification" Avemco thinks has to be done to my Retractable Main Landing Gear. I already knew Avemco REALLY liked the gear and blessed it for almost 2 years now (actually longer than this), stating how 'substantial' it is, and that Avemco told their underwriters to make sure this safety roll pin was installed and safetied (which I'm very glad they do), but I never realized they thought the 2 - 1/8" roll pins and safety wire, already required for the builder to do in the installation plans before first flight, through the 'L' bracket and upper side brace pin, was a MOD! This is original in the installation plans!! I will call AND write Avemco and make sure they understand this is NOT a MOD!!! Thanks loads to those for bringing this to my attention! This installation of the 2 - 1/8" x 1" safety roll pin and safety wire is ONLY germane to the first 30 sets of Retractable Main Landing Gear already out there. These builders are all well aware of it and is very minor for them to do. I've changed all the gear I make and design since, so the builder isn't required to do ANY work on the gear itself - just bolt it in. Thanks loads for your interest. Infinity's Forever, JD by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-8 #23426) with SMTP id <01IOHC4PF4C291OPQ8@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:13:12 EDT Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 09:13:04 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Insurance Organization: AEROCAD INC. Ian Martin wrote: > The questions concerning cost and insurability seem worth passing on. > If you are building a Cozy or modified Cozy they still put it in the > Cozy category (looks like one, smells like one Hmmm, was the impression) > Avemco resists insuring one-offs (i.e. new designs) but documented > modifications to existing designs are not considered one-offs even though > they really are. My Cozy 3 was insured by Avemco as is my new airplane the AeroCanard. I told Avemco that it was but this was a spin-off from a Long-EZ and was a prototype for a new kit. The same person that insured my Cozy said there would be no new added charge or rider because of this. New is New. You still have to prove it works. I pay a little over $1000 per year for coverage on the ground but not in the air only liability. All these types of airplanes are one-offs even if it's a kit. -- Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc. E-mail: Jeff@aerocad.com P.O. Box 7307 Port St. Lucie, Fl 34985-7307 Phone/ fax (call first): 910-961-2238 after Oct 31 561-460-8020 AeroCad: http://www.aerocad.com Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com