From: Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 6 Jan 97 09:59:08 CST Subject: COZY: Fuel and Oil Lines Hello Group, Need info on type of lines to use for fuel and oil. 303 or 666 or ___? Thank You, Ken Reiter From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Fuel and Oil Lines (fwd) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 97 11:16:06 EST Ken Reiter; >Need info on type of lines to use for fuel and oil. > >303 or 666 or ___? I remember reading in the Newsletter that some people had some problems with the 303 tubing (synthetic rubber based) after a period of some years - they will eventually deteriorate and leak. The 606 hose (I think what Ken meant - I don't know that I'd use a hose with the # 666 in it :-) ) is teflon and stainless steel. It's impervious to everything and will not deteriorate. It's good for hydraulics, fuel, oil, or anything else. Of course, it costs more. I believe it's what Nat's got on his plane, and it's what I'm planning on using. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:17:28 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: [Fwd: Re: COZY: Fuel and Oil Lines] Message-ID: <32D186B4.2AE4@iop.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:11:48 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ken Reiter Subject: Re: COZY: Fuel and Oil Lines References: <9701061559.AA17682@falcon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Reiter wrote: > > Hello Group, > > Need info on type of lines to use for fuel and oil. > > 303 or 666 or ___? > > Thank You, > Ken Reiter At oshkosh this year I saw the Berkut had fuel and oil lines that were brown, I inquired about it and finally found the table at oshkosh. You order it to length and the type of fittings you need(45,90 etc.) Its actually cheaper than the 666 stuff for shorter lengths, but the 666 stuff may be cheaper for long lenghts. I recall wicks fittings were around 23.00? for a straight fittings. Ok I went into the garage and found the company name for those intrested Herber Airccraft310-322-9575 I paid 51.58 and 47.08 for a 12" and 10.5 " piece. That was with straight fittings ( the cheapest ), for my oil cooler. I still have to figure out the fuel line lenghts yet. They make the stuff in blue also, but its more expensive and its the same thing. Its teflon line by the way. and has an integral fire sleeve. Paul Burkhardt Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 19:34:55 -0500 From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Re: Fuel and Oil Lines Hi Ken and All, >Ken Reiter wrote:< >Need info on type of lines to use for fuel and oil. 303 or 666 or ___?< Page 146 of Firewall Forward states 'the best tubing to use for fuel and oil lines is the readily available 5052-0. It is soft enough to be easily flared and formed for routing. You can use 5052-0 aluminum tubing for all your metal lines including pitot/static, vacuum, primer, fuel, oil and low and medium pressure hydraulic lines.' A few common sizes are listed. I talked to Alcoa Aluminum long ago to get a chart of Bursting Pressures of aluminum tubing. 5052-0 burst pressure is 6937 PSI. I've mentioned this before in previous posts, but never hurts to repeat some things. My A & P Mechanics General Handbook recommends that 'a double flare should be used on 5052-0 and 6061-T aluminum alloy tubing for all sizes from 1/8" to 3/8" outside diameter. This is necessary to prevent cutting off the flare and failure of the tube assembly under operating pressures. The double flare is smoother and more concentric than the single flare and, therefore, seals better. It is also more resistant to the shearing effect of torque.' A 37 degree Double Flaring Tool Kit is $509+ (Aircraft Spruce '95-'96, page 345), so I use aluminum two-ferrule Swagelok tube fittings. All the action in the Swagelok fitting moves along the tube axially instead of with a rotary motion. Since no torque is transmitted from the fitting to the tubing, there is no initial strain which might weaken the tubing. Swagelok fittings are less expensive than AN fittings, and they claim to have the lowest leak rate in the industry. If you need AN fittings, of which I use from pipe fittings to hoses, you can get the same AN fittings from Earl's Performance Product's, usually for less money. To locate your local Swagelok dealer, call the home office in Solon, OH. To locate your local Earl's dealer, call (310) 609-1602. Other references and info: (A) FAA Airframe and Powerplant MECHANICS General Handbook EA-AC 65-9A, pages 99 thru 119 (B) Alcoa Aluminum Tubular Bursting Pressures - Section ETD 911, TABLE I & II 1) The 0.25" OD x 0.035" wall 5052-0 aluminum tubing has a bursting pressure of 6937 PSI minimum (REF B). A suitable Factor of Safety for design should be applied, which is up to you. A Factor of Safety of 4 is often used, which relates to a working pressure of 1734 PSI. A Factor of Safety of 2.31 relates to a working pressure of 3000 PSI, which is more than acceptable (REF A, pg. 100). The maximum distance (if anyone cares to know) between supports for rigid fluids under pressure in aluminum tubing is 13.5 inches (REF A, pg. 119). 2) The maximum pressures you will probably see is from your brake system, which will probably never get over 500 to 1000 PSI. 3) A hose with a working pressure of 1500 PSI equates to a bursting pressure of about 6000+ PSI. The Aeroquip 303-4 hose (3000 PSI working pressure), the Teflon StratoFlex P/N 124001-4CR (1500 PSI - minimum), or equivalent, is needed (REF A, Rubber and Teflon Hose, pg. 100 & 102). Earl's has the same type hoses for less cost, and are pressure tested before shipment. 4) The blue aluminum AN/MS fittings (good for about 4000+ PSI working pressures) should all be torqued to 40 to 65 inch pounds by using a crows foot to get on the fitting with a torque wrench and held in place by another wrench (REF A, pg. 117). HTH. Infinity's Forever, EAA Member EAA Technical Counselor JD EAA Flight Advisor AOPA Member Test Pilot James D. Newman, President LCDR F-14 USNR INFINITY Aerospace Mailing Address: P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 Shipping Address: 1750 Joe Crosson Drive, D-2 El Cajon, CA 92020 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX 72124.347@compuserve.com OR INFINITY_Aerospace@compuserve.com Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 19:57:34 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: COZY: Re: Fuel and Oil Lines You can use 5052-0 aluminum tubing for all your metal lines including pitot/static, vacuum, primer, fuel, oil and low and medium pressure hydraulic lines. JD, it was my impression that you could not use rigid aluminium tubing between the engine and the firewall, due to the vibration which will eventually cause the tubing to fail. Paul Burkhardt Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:22:28 -0500 From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Re: Re: Fuel and Oil Lines Hi Paul and All, >it was my impression that you could not use rigid aluminium tubing between the engine and the firewall, due to the vibration which will eventually cause the tubing to fail.< True. I didn't say, or mean to imply, to use hard lines from the firewall to the engine, and Firewall Foreward doesn't say to do that either. Ken's post talked about 303 lines. I first thought he was asking about using 3003 aluminum tubing and he just had a typo, dropping a zero, of which the 0.025" OD tube only has a working pressure of 795 PSI, so I started typing away about aluminum tubing. I had already spent all that time writing the beginning of my post (I type sooo slow), which is still good, applicable information, when I realized he was talking about hoses, not tubing. That's why I also have the section on hoses and pressures. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for pointing it out. HTH. Infinity's Forever, JD Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:55:52 -0800 From: berkut@loop.com Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Fuel and Oil Lines Paul Burkhardt wrote: >JD, it was my impression that you could not use rigid aluminium tubing >between the engine and the firewall, due to the vibration which will >eventually cause the tubing to fail. Paul Burkhardt Absolutely right. You also have to be careful of long, unsupported lengths going from point to point ON THE ENGINE or on the airframe itself, since vibrations along the length of the tube itself can cause fatigue and failure. Also, aluminum tube can burn away in an engine compartment fire We don't use aluminum tube in the engine compartment for fuel or pressurized oil at all - either flex with integral teflon or stainless. Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:16:58 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: COZY: cowl flange For those of you who are flying I'd like to know the following concerning the rear cowl flange where it meets the wing root. It seems the cowl flange(between the exhaust and the wing) and the flange on the wing interfere with each other. My question is which one should be trimmed, the wing root flange, or the cowl flange? Thanks in advance. Paul Burkhardt Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:56:46 -0800 From: Eric Westland Subject: COZY: NAS1291-7 Nuts??? In the engine installation parts list, Nat specified MS21042-7 nuts, but then changed it to NAS1291-7 in the newsletter. I can't find these for sale to save my life. Any idea what the differences are and where they can be found? Thanks, Eric Westland Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:47:50 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: Re: COZY: NAS1291-7 Nuts??? Eric Westland wrote: > > In the engine installation parts list, Nat specified MS21042-7 nuts, but > then changed it to NAS1291-7 in the newsletter. I can't find these for > sale to save my life. Any idea what the differences are and where they > can be found? > > Thanks, > > Eric Westland If you look in wicks cataog under the same area where the ms21042-x nuts are found you will see them there. ( at 3.50 a pop no less) Paul Burkhardt Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:20:19 -0500 (EST) From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: NAS1291-7 Nuts??? In a message dated 1/29/97 6:54:13 PM, you wrote: >If you look in wicks cataog under the same area where the ms21042-x nuts >are found you will see them there. ( at 3.50 a pop no less) Paul >Burkhardt Thanks Paul, I had looked over both catalogs carefully and looked right past this because in the descrition, it has a (NAS679) under it. Do you know what brought about the change? Is a MS21042-7 the same as a NAS1291x7 and if so, why the different numbers? All the smaller sizes are less than a buck, is there some special treatment in making it that jumps the price up to $3.50 each or is it just because that's the size I need :-)? Thanks again, Eric Subject: COZY: Prop Extension From: mbeduhn@juno.com (Mark W Beduhn) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 12:11:45 EST I am getting ready to purchase a prop extension ( I am planning on using a 3 blade performance prop). Here is the question: Should I order threaded or unthreaded drive lugs? The flywheel on my engine has 3/4" drive lugs tapped for a 1/2" bolt. I assume that I should order an extension with basically the same thing (3/4" tapped lugs). Why do they offer unthreaded lugs anyway? Mark Beduhn Cozy MK IV #494 Subject: COZY: Motor mount From: mbeduhn@juno.com (Mark W Beduhn) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 12:11:45 EST Hi everyone. About a month ago I asked for a recommended manufacturer of a motor mount for my O-360. Several people responded by recommending Weldtech Aero. I then ordered one from Weldtech and received it last week. I also found that their quality is excellent, the price is good, and delivery time to be reasonable. The motor mount cost $455 plus $15 for crating, plus the actual shipping charges ($16 to ship to my home in Arkansas). P.S. I installed the engine last weekend and everyting fit perfectly. Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:50:55 -0500 (EST) From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: COZY: IO-360 Installation? Well, after an extensive search that yielded the Holy Grail, the Northwest Passage and the Fountain of Youth before it yielded an engine, my IO-360-A1A showed up yesterday at the freight terminal in Seattle. They had no way to put the 500# box in the back of a pick up, but that's a story for a different day. There are pros and cons to selecting any engine, but with this particular engine, the pros outweighed the cons. However, one of the cons is how to make it all fit in a standard cowling (I bought my cowling before I discovered Jeff made them :-(). I know I will need to modify the cowl no matter what, but what other mods to the engine itself may or may not be necessary? I spoke over the phone with Frank Bibbee who is now flying his Mark IV with an IO-360 and he was very helpful. What I am wondering is if there are other instructional resources available that may help me to do the installation correctly. Perhaps Velocity or Aerocad? I would like to avoid re-inventing the wheel. Thanks, Eric Westland Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:08:07 -0500 (EST) From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: COZY: LA Builder?? I was speaking with the Velocity West folks yesterday and they told me they had just sold an IO-360 cooling plenum for a Cozy builder in the Southern California area. They did not have his name handy. Might one of you know who he is? TIA, Eric Westland Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 22:46:39 -0800 From: Stan Magill Subject: COZY: Plenum response Eric, in response to your email, I am the Cozy Mark IV builder who has ordered, received, and currently installing a plenum from velocity on my IO360C1C engine. The plenum replaces the baffle system and cools the engine from the top down. I am using two four inch diameter hoses to direct air from the naca scoop inlet upward to the top of the engine where they attach to the plenum. I had to reshape the top cowling to allow room for these hoses and the plenum. If you would like to see how its progressing, contact me at my email address. Stan Magill, Long Beach, Calif. (sjm1@worldnet.att.net) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:22:24 -0500 From: "Jeff S. Russell" Organization: AEROCAD INC. Subject: Re: COZY: Exhaust springs Krasa, Paul wrote: > > Does anyone know where to get replacment exhaust springs for the two > into one exhaust system? > Paul, Try a motorcycle shop. That is what I did for my last airplane. -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 phone/ call first for fax 910-961-2238 NEW E-mail: JRAEROCAD@yadtel.net NEW homepage address: http://www.binary.net/aerocad Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:57:47 -0500 From: wilhelmson@scra.org Subject: Re: COZY: Exhaust springs The exhaust springs should be SS. I replaced mine three times because they were not. I was using Yamaha parts. If you contact the approved supplier for the exhaust system as listed in the Cozy newsletter he will sell you a set of SS springs. He makes them. Hope this helps. Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: COZY: Cowling Odds and Ends The cowling on my Mark IV is going on easier than I imagined. While it's not all done yet, I'd thought I would pass on a couple of observations/tips while I wait for my kids to fall asleep. The plans have you start by laying up a five ply flange along the top of the turtleback and the lower firewall. This is helpful to have in place, but I just did two plies along the top and then two under the flange and onto the firewall for support (so I did not pull it off). This means I had to go back later and add more plies, but the thinner flange allowed me to "fine tune" the flange with my heat gun with the cowling in place for a much better fit. I doubt I could have done it completely right from the start by just following the fuselage contour while sanding the urethane foam that you lay the flange up over. I do not have my prop extension yet, so I had to figure a way to get the rear opening centered. Before I started I thought I could just eyeball it, but with the #1 cylinder being closer to the opening than the #2, there is an optical illusion for my dyslexic eyes. I know this because I spent two hours plumb-bobing everything just in case. After some time looking around the house for something that might work as a prop extension replacement, I came across an old 6 gallon plastic garbage can. It fit on the flywheel perfectly, made the job easy and did not cost $400 (for now). The IO-360 angle valve engine is fitting fine in the cowling along the top. No trimming will be needed, but the bottom cowl is going to need a little work. Changing sumps so I can change tubes will help the most. Right now I have the A1A sump with the servo on the prop side of the sump, so the intake tubes have a joggle in them towards the prop (the wrong way for us). I think a C1C sump will help as the servo is on the accessory case side and the tubes need to "stretch" to the servo to get there compared to what I have now. That's the theory anyway. Even with that help, it's going to have a couple of extra bumps for the intake tubes, but I can live with that. I do have one question that Marc can index under "Bonehead" in the archives - since this is the only part on the plane that has come out of a mold (it's smooth w/o sanding for days!), how should it be prepared for primer? Should it be scuffed up first or left smooth? Eric Westland Subject: COZY: Cozy III Eng. Mount From: gmellen@juno.com (George J Mellen Jr.) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:38:42 EST I know I am a late bloomer here and that most of the people on this list are building Mark IV's, but I would like to pose a question on mounting 0-320's on 3 place cozies. I have re-read my back issues of the newsletters several times and Nat never did sanction this modification ( though it sounds like most builders did it anyway!) He did mention that if you were to do this you needed a heavier AL angle were the engine mount bolts to the longerons ie: 1/4 " vs. 1/8" angle. Also mentioned was possibly adding additional plies of glass under the angle . I can't find this heavier angle in the Wicks or AS&SC catalogs. I have already purchased the 0-320 mount from Weldtech. I would like to here from builders who have already done this. How is it Done on the Mark IV ? Thanks, George Mellen From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Cozy III Eng. Mount (fwd) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 11:54:10 EST George Mellen wrote: >I can't find this heavier angle in the Wicks or AS&SC catalogs. I have >already purchased the 0-320 mount from Weldtech. Any metal supply house will have scraps of 1/4" angle lying around - they might even give them to you free. I do see 1/4" aluminum angle in the Wicks catalog (pg 185 of the 1996 catalog) for both 2024-T3 and 6061-T6. They're pretty big, 3.5"x3.5" and 2"x2" or larger, but you could easily band saw the legs smaller, and then file the edges smooth. >How is it Done on the Mark IV ? The MKIV does not use these angle brackets - it has metal pads glassed into the firewall that the engine mount bolts onto. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Computer user Subject: RE: COZY: Cozy III Eng. Mount Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:15:59 -0600 I have the 0-320 in my cozy 3 place. I used the 1/4" thick 2x2 angle and = cut it down to size. My engine mount is for the heavy installations. I = had to send it back to them for adjustment as the mounting points will = be spread further than if you were to use the 1/8" angle. Brock did this = adjustment at no charge. Before you send your engine mount, bolt it to = the engine to check the clearance. Also use a heavy ground strap in case = the engine should fall off :) :( Doug Does your city need a good visitor guide Solinger Doug@visitor-guide.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:37:59 -0800 From: berkut@loop.com Subject: RE: COZY: Cozy III Eng. Mount Does the 3 pl Cozy mount have one tube or 2 going from the upper extrusions to the upper isolator cups? We've been doing a 2 tube mod on Long EZ mounts for many years, when we go to a 320 engine - with one upper tube per side we got _very_ consistant cracking of those tubes. >I have the 0-320 in my cozy 3 place. I used the 1/4" thick 2x2 angle and cut it down to size. My engine mount is for the heavy installations. I had to send it back to them for adjustment as the mounting points will be spread further than if you were to use the 1/8" angle. Brock did this adjustment at no charge. Before you send your engine mount, bolt it to the engine to check the clearance. Also use a heavy ground strap in case the engine should fall off :) :( > >Doug Does your city need a good visitor guide Solinger >Doug@visitor-guide.com > > -- Czech Sikhs! Richard Riley "Heavier than air flying machines are impossible." Lord Kelvin, President, Royal Society, c 1895 See the Berkut at http://www.berkut.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:12:45 -0500 From: Computer user Subject: COZY: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:27:10 -0600 If I remember correctly it has two tubes welded onto one tube just before where it mounts to the extrusions. Doug > Does the 3 pl Cozy mount have one tube or 2 going from the upper extrusions >to the upper isolator cups? We've been doing a 2 tube mod on Long EZ mounts >for many years, when we go to a 320 engine - with one upper tube per side we >got _very_ consistant cracking of those tubes. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 05:00:12 -0500 (EST) From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Cozy III Eng. Mount In a message dated 97-02-27 12:48:08 EST, George Mellon writes: > I have re-read my back issues of the newsletters several times and Nat > never did sanction this modification ( though it sounds like most > builders did it anyway!) He did mention that if you were to do this you > needed a heavier AL angle were the engine mount bolts to the longerons > ie: 1/4 " vs. 1/8" angle. Also mentioned was possibly adding additional > plies of glass under the angle . I put an O-320 in my Long-EZ. As recommended by Dave Ronneberg (Berkut designer and canard expert extraordinaire), I stayed with 1/8" aluminum extrusions, but instead of the 1" x 1" angle I used 1 1/2" x 1", with the longer side of the angle mounted vertically. This apparently gives the extra strength margin desired (although there are many O-320's out there mounted to the original 1" extrusions). Staying with 1/8" thick extrusions eliminates the need for engine mount spreading that would have to be done if thicker extrusions are used. To my knowledge, there has only been one instance of an extrusion cracking in a VariEze or Long-EZ, so even the 1" x 1" extrusions have a pretty good service history, much better than the steel mount. I also had the sobering experience of looking over the remains of a Long-EZ involved in a fatal crash. The engine mount was severely bent, but although 3 of the 4 extrusions were ripped off the spar they showed no deformation that I could see. Amazing. Although I haven't verified the numbers myself, someone once said that the weight of an O-320 with a lightweight starter and alternator is very close to an O-235 with the certified starter and alternator. If that's true, and assuming one uses the lighter accessories on an O-320, the original extrusions might be sufficient. And in a message dated 97-02-27 14:40:15 EST, Richard Riley writes: > Does the 3 pl Cozy mount have one tube or 2 going from the upper extrusions > to the upper isolator cups? We've been doing a 2 tube mod on Long EZ mounts > for many years, when we go to a 320 engine - with one upper tube per side we > got _very_ consistant cracking of those tubes. I had this modification done on my Weldtec mount by Experimental Aviation and am very pleased with the result. Their workmanship is superb. Stet Elliott stetsone@aol.com Perpetual Long-EZ builder (With luck, first flight in under a month!) by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-5 #17060) with SMTP id <01IFYECXI9W095FAPZ@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:03:55 EST Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:03:14 -0500 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: COZY: engine baffle? Organization: AEROCAD INC. I thought someone posted . This was done with a Velocity with the Franklin with great cooling. Someone tell me more about this 4 cylinder mod ??? Is Velocity selling this? and for how much? If any of you have bent aluminum baffling. What a pain in the butt. -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell phone/ call first for fax 910-961-2238 NEW E-mail: JRAEROCAD@yadtel.net NEW web site under construction: http://www.binary.net/aerocad Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:40:17 -0500 From: wilhelmson@scra.org Subject: Re: COZY: engine baffle? JEFF: THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT DOWN DRAFT COOLING IS BETTER BECAUSE THE EXHAUST PIPE HEAT IS NOT PUMPED THROUGH THE CYLINDER HEADS. HOWEVER THE WAY VELOCITY DID IT IS GRUESOME. IN ANY CASE DOWN DRAFT COOLING DOES NOT MEAN THAT CYLINDER BAFFELING IS ELIMINATED. AIR WILL NOT FLOW THROUGH THE FINS UNLESS IT IS FORCED TO. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: engine baffle? Author: Jeff S Russell at Internet_gateway Date: 2/28/97 4:03 PM I thought someone posted . This was done with a Velocity with the Franklin with great cooling. Someone tell me more about this 4 cylinder mod ??? Is Velocity selling this? and for how much? If any of you have bent aluminum baffling. What a pain in the butt. -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell phone/ call first for fax 910-961-2238 NEW E-mail: JRAEROCAD@yadtel.net NEW web site under construction: http://www.binary.net/aerocad Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com From: Ken Reiter Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 16:33:32 CST Subject: Re: COZY: engine baffle? Hello Group, I am still working on baffling. For some reason WORK keeps getting in the way. For us Fiberglass people, it is a change and something new to LEARN. It is enjoyable. Just more or less follow Nat's plans and you will be there. ps Buy extra aluminum you will want/have to redo some of your errors. I do not think anybody did a great first layup; I know, I do better ones now. Ken Subject: COZY: Cozy III Eng.mount From: gmellen@juno.com (George J Mellen Jr.) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:56:10 EST Richard Riley Asked: Does the 3 pl Cozy mount have one tube or 2 going from the upper extrusions to the upper isolator cups? I'm not quite sure what you mean. My Weldtech mount has two and on one location three tubes connecting the isolator cups to a common ring. But there is only one tube that connects to each of the four extrusions ???? Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:31:53 -0800 From: berkut@loop.com Subject: Re: COZY: Cozy III Eng.mount > >Richard Riley Asked: >Does the 3 pl Cozy mount have one tube or 2 going from the upper >extrusions >to the upper isolator cups? > >I'm not quite sure what you mean. My Weldtech mount has two and on one >location three tubes connecting the isolator cups to a common ring. But >there is only one tube that connects to each of the four extrusions ???? > > I just looked in the Brock catalog and it doesn't list a separate mount for the Cozy (3 pl) so I assume it uses the standard O-235 Long EZ dynafocal mount. (if I'm wrong, ignore this) On the standard O-235 Long EZ mount, the upper isolator cups are part of the dynafocal ring (naturally) and the _lower_ cups each attach to the firewall with 2 tubes. There's also a diagonal brace that attaches the lower right firewall point to the lower left isolator cup. The top firewall points each attach to their respective cups with one tube, to the ring just below the cup. We add another tube to each side, attaching the firewall points to the ring just _above_ the cups. That stopped the upper tubes cracking with 320's. -- Czech Sikhs! Richard Riley "Heavier than air flying machines are impossible." Lord Kelvin, President, Royal Society, c 1895 See the Berkut at http://www.berkut.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 09:00:35 -0500 (EST) From: CCady@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Cozy III Eng.mount Weldtech makes the E-Racer MKII Lycoming engine mount which attaches to the firewall with round pads and thru bolts. The mounting points are reinforced inside with glass layups to the spar and small webs either side of the mounting point from the firewall to the spar. It is pretty easy to install this way as you just have thru bolts to install and remove the engine mount. There is a extra mounting point to the firewall in the center down low. This mount supposed to be good for O-350's the recommended engine, which may account for the extra support at the bottom. You might want to ask Weldtech if they can make you a similar mount that instead has the 4 mounting point dimensions that the Cozy uses. The bottom mouting point is attaced to the lower isolator dognuts by two extra tubes that are not really in the way. I check how far down you can go to be on the firewall just above your NACA scoop if you have one. It might be another option. Cliff Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 10:53:51 -0800 From: Stanley Magill Subject: COZY: Engine Plenum Hello Jeff, I am the one who has purchased a Plenum from Velocity and am installing it on my cozy mark IV in place of the metal baffle design. I will keep you and the cozy group informed of my progress. Stan Magill sjm1@worldnet.att.net Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:32:53 -0400 (EDT) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Weldtech Corp In a message dated 97-04-24 18:31:58 EDT, RGCardinal@aol.com writes: << We can make a difference. If you're in need of a mount, now or in the future and are anything but totally satisfied with alternative scources, Weldtech is a company deserving of your support. But time is short. The phone number for Weldtech is 509 946-3269. >> I agree with Bob and would be happy to put in an order for my mount tomorrow. My only concern is that I haven't the foggies idea what to order. While I'm getting closer to having to buy an engine I am still not up to speed on the various model numbers. I guess I'll be ordering something that has the numbers 360 in the model number. Do all the model numbers (O, IO, etc.) use the same mount or would I have to know the exact engine I'll be hanging. Hate to appear ignorant but....... Dick Finn Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:41:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Weldtech Corp In a message dated 4/25/97 4:40:35 AM, you wrote: >My only concern is that I haven't the foggies idea what to order. While I'm >getting closer to having to buy an engine I am still not up to speed on the >various model numbers. I guess I'll be ordering something that has the >numbers 360 in the model number. Do all the model numbers (O, IO, etc.) use >the same mount or would I have to know the exact engine I'll be hanging. The Weldtech mount will work for just about any O/IO 360. It may not work for all, but I doubt any mount would. If you ended up with a rarer model of Lycoming that had an obstruction of some sort, it would probably be easier to change the engine (sump/accessory case) than the mount. But even if you did not want to do that, I doubt you would have trouble selling it later as his prices are less, and quality is better than the alternative (Brock). If you do know your engine model number, Richard does have all the info to make sure it fits. He is very nice to deal with, I'd suggest giving him a call. He has 320 mounts available as well. Eric Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 07:24:40 -0700 From: rfisher@spacetech.com Subject: COZY: Crank Plug?? Westlande@aol.com wrote: >My IO-360 was formerly set up for a CS prop. To convert it to fixed, I >need >to remove an allenhead plug at the inside end of the hollow portion of the >crank. It is really, really stuck and I don't want to mess it up trying to >remove it. Any suggestions on getting to sucker loosened? Eric, Sorry for the delay in replying to your message, schedule prevented me from getting online for a while. I spoke with our EAA Tech Counselor who is an A&P whose first comment was, "I hardly ever hear of someone wanting to convert from a CS to fixed, it's usually the other way around!" He checked his engine manuals and could find no reference to the allenhead plug you refer to. He said that there is a 1-1/4" plug in the crank that Lycoming recommends to be removed by the factory only. His final recommendation for your particular engine was to call a Lycoming tech rep for the answer. He gave me the name of Bob Ohnmeiss at (800) 258-3279 as being a particularly helpful guy. Hope this helps. See ya, Russ Fisher Finally about to start chapter 4. Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:09:19 -0400 From: GLENN Murray Subject: COZY: Engine Cowling Does anyone know how to make engine cowlings for a cozy 3 or are there drawings available? Does anyone supply them pre-moulded in the states? from Glenn Murray (UK) 28/4/97 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:54:00 -0400 (EDT) From: RonKidd@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Engine Cowling You can get them from Featherlite. Ron Kidd Cozy N417CZ Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:41:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: COZY: NTSB Accident Reports At 10:11 97/5/02, you wrote: 3) the incredibly ingeneous ways that >Murphy comes up with keeping the fuel away from the engine. Getting the >fuel system correct, using some sort of fuel low inidicator, and flying >responsibly would have prevented most of the fatalities. Someone mentioned that teflon tape prevented fuel from getting to the engine. At the risk of asking a dumb question (my forte), is teflon tape a no-no or was it just improper use of the tape? A related question may be what is the proper method of ensuring no leaks? Ron Lee Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:37:48 -0500 From: "David R. Kuechenmeister" Subject: Re: COZY: NTSB Accident Reports After having taped countless fittings with teflon tape in a wind tunnel, I asked an A&P about using teflon tape in aircraft. He prefered the liquid stuff to seal fittings, but said teflon was okay as long as I only put one wrap on the threads. That and made sure I wrapped it in the correct direction. Dave At 10:41 AM -0500 5/2/97, Ron Lee wrote: >At 10:11 97/5/02, you wrote: > 3) the incredibly ingeneous ways that >>Murphy comes up with keeping the fuel away from the engine. Getting the >>fuel system correct, using some sort of fuel low inidicator, and flying >>responsibly would have prevented most of the fatalities. > >Someone mentioned that teflon tape prevented fuel from getting to the >engine. At the risk of asking a dumb question (my forte), is teflon >tape a no-no or was it just improper use of the tape? A related >question may be what is the proper method of ensuring no leaks? > >Ron Lee -- David R. Kuechenmeister Long-EZ #779 (770)528-7738 Atlanta, Georgia Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:41:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: COZY: Teflon Tape At 14:06 97/5/02 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:36 PM -0500 5/2/97, Randy Smith wrote: >>> >>> After having taped countless fittings with teflon tape in a wind tunnel, I >>> asked an A&P about using teflon tape in aircraft. He prefered the liquid >>> stuff to seal fittings, but said teflon was okay as long as I only put one >>> wrap on the threads. That and made sure I wrapped it in the correct >>> direction. >> >>Ok, what is the correct direction? >> > >Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to be cute; I just didn't want to talk >down to anyone. Just wrap the tape so that the free end is smoothed down by >whatever you're screwing over the threads. > >Dave > In other words, you tape the male fitting and wrap the tape in the same direction that the female fitting will screw on over it. That has the effect on screwing in the same direction as the tape so it does not unravel. Frankly, I prefer sometimes too much info. There are so many minor details like that in all stages of construction that we have to learn sometime. That is why I asked about teflon tape in the first place. I did not know if it was proper. Ron Lee Kuechenmeister" at May 2, 97 12:37:48 pm Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:06:46 -0500 From: "David R. Kuechenmeister" Subject: Re: COZY: NTSB Accident Reports At 12:36 PM -0500 5/2/97, Randy Smith wrote: >> >> After having taped countless fittings with teflon tape in a wind tunnel, I >> asked an A&P about using teflon tape in aircraft. He prefered the liquid >> stuff to seal fittings, but said teflon was okay as long as I only put one >> wrap on the threads. That and made sure I wrapped it in the correct >> direction. > >Ok, what is the correct direction? > Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to be cute; I just didn't want to talk down to anyone. Just wrap the tape so that the free end is smoothed down by whatever you're screwing over the threads. Dave -- David R. Kuechenmeister Georgia Tech Research Institute Atlanta,GA 30332 mailto:David.Kuechenmeister@gtri.gatech.edu Voice: (770)528-7738 From: Epplin_John_A@hpmail1.90.deere.com Date: Fri, 2 May 97 14:28:53 -0500 Subject: Re: COZY: Teflon Tape I will add my .02 cents to the Teflon tape discussion. As for as I am concerned, put the Teflon tape on your water pipes in the house. There is two things that I would worry about using it for fuel line sealing. First is the fact that is very difficult to make sure that it does not shed small pieces into the carb. The next is the fact that it is a very good lubricant. Makes it easy to over torque pipe threads and crack fittings. There is a product available for fuel line sealing. Wicks has it as well as most other suppliers. It is called "Fuelube". I am not sure what it is today but used to be made from beeswax years ago. Use sparingly and you will not have any problems. John Epplin Mk4 $467 A&P From: "James E. Marker" Subject: Re: COZY: NTSB Accident Reports Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:07:03 -0400 > From: Ron Lee > To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com > Subject: Re: COZY: NTSB Accident Reports > Date: Friday, May 02, 1997 11:41 AM <> > At the risk of asking a dumb question (my forte), is teflon > tape a no-no or was it just improper use of the tape? > > Ron Lee We pretty much outlawed teflon tape in all of our process support and safety related systems at work due to numerous problems with it. Installation is often not up to par and failure due to everything but chemical attack seems to have occured at one time or another. This bad installation is with professional mechanics and QA inspectors verifying/witnessing work in many cases. It is just not easy to guarentee the teflon tape is only in the threads and not in the system. Jim.. =========================================================================== Jim Marker Email: jemstone@csra.net Web: http://www.csra.net/jemstone/ Cozy Mark IV #0581 Cozy Web Page: http://www.csra.net/jemstone/cozy.htm by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-7 #16063) with SMTP id <01III6RYB7DI000731@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 08:59:52 PST Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 09:01:31 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Teflon Tape >I will add my .02 cents to the Teflon tape discussion. As for as I am >concerned, put the Teflon tape on your water pipes in the house. There is >two things that I would worry about using it for fuel line sealing. First >is the fact that is very difficult to make sure that it does not shed small >pieces into the carb. The next is the fact that it is a very good >lubricant. Makes it easy to over torque pipe threads and crack fittings. > >There is a product available for fuel line sealing. Wicks has it as well as >most other suppliers. It is called "Fuelube". I am not sure what it is >today but used to be made from beeswax years ago. Use sparingly and you >will not have any problems. > >John Epplin Mk4 $467 A&P John, and the group, I will add my .02 here, also. I have been using teflon tape for over 20 years, at work, on extremely critical high purity water systems, as well as on my own aircraft. I agree that its use is somewhat controversial, but I also believe that, properly used, it is just fine. Most of the points have been covered, here, but I will add just a bit. The correct direction of wrap is important, so that the tightening of the joint wraps the tape tighter, not the other way around. This is no more difficult than learning the correct direction to go with safety wire. I use exactly two layers of tape (the thin stuff), no more, no less. But perhaps the most important part (and I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, so far), is to leave the last two threads, at the end of the male part, completely naked of tape. The seal point between pipe threads occurs somehwat farther up the tapered section anyway, so there is no need for teflon at the tip of the fitting. This is where the tape gets nipped off, and falls inside of your system. You have a good point about the librication qualities. All I can say is that other types of pipe compounds also lubricate to varying degrees, and any one of them requires some "wrist-calibration" to not over-tighten them. When I have seen cracked fittings from over-zealous tightening, it is usually a result of trying to get a fitting to "line up", pointing in a particular direction (benn there; done that). I don't think it is any more difficult for the newcomer to calibrate the wrist to teflon tape than any other system. I like it, myself, but I will stop just short of reccomending it. There are other good products on the market. One more for your consideration is made by Locktite, and is specifically made for fuel and petroleum products. Howard Rogers A&P 2005148 Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:33:23 -0700 From: Eric Westland Subject: COZY: Oil filter part # I know it's been mentioed before, but I can't find it anywhere. What is the part number for the NAPA stubby oil filter for the Lycoming that gives firewall clearance needed when using the standard Lycoming adapter. Thanks, -eric Eric Westland Cozy Mark IV - Still sanding Mukilteo, Washington From: "Chuck Wolcott" Subject: Re: COZY: Oil filter part # Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:23:38 -0700 Hi Eric - I am at work right now, but think the one I use is the Fram PH-16. I have always liked Fram...think I read, years ago, some consumer report that they were good quality. On sale they run about $2. (I use a large hose clamp around the outside to safety wire to.) Have run them for 180 hrs squawk free. Chuck Wolcott MarkIV # 0154 chuckw@qnet.com ---- From: Eric Westland To: Cozy Builders Date: Thursday, May 08, 1997 2:38 PM Subject: COZY: Oil filter part # >I know it's been mentioed before, but I can't find it anywhere. > >What is the part number for the NAPA stubby oil filter for the Lycoming >that gives firewall clearance needed when using the standard Lycoming >adapter. > >Thanks, > >-eric > >Eric Westland >Cozy Mark IV - Still sanding >Mukilteo, Washington > > by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-5 #17060) with SMTP id <01IIN48NGUAM973T5I@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Thu, 8 May 1997 21:40:59 EST Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 21:38:27 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Oil filter part # Organization: AEROCAD INC. Eric Westland wrote: > > I know it's been mentioed before, but I can't find it anywhere. > > What is the part number for the NAPA stubby oil filter for the Lycoming > that gives firewall clearance needed when using the standard Lycoming It is #1335 from NAPA -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:57:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: COZY: Cooling inlet I screwed up my email and lost message I intended to post earlier. Just wanted to say thanks to Bill Kreb and others regarding adding air inlet to leading edge. I will mod my original plan to reduce inlet size by 1/2 and keep it on lower half of edge. I recognize any mod to any canard airfoil should be seriously questioned. Think I have method that will effectively have no effect. effectively speaking. effectively yours -al "place favorite quote here" Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:55:28 -0400 From: wilhelmson@scra.org Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Fuel Boost Pumps REID: With reference to the fuel pump plumbing subject, I was not aware that the Piper Cherokee bypassed the engine pump with the boost pump. I learned something and I thank you for the info. I have a few questions, because I am considering replumbing my airplane this way. 1. Does the Piper use any check valves in their setup? 2. What type of boost pump do they use (vane, centrifugal, diaphragm)? Since I have had one engine failure do to problems with fuel systems, I am always looking for a more fail safe setup. I am presently running a Ellison TBI but I have a port injection system that is used as a fixed power backup and primer. If there is sufficient interest I will share the details with anyone who asks? Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:22:07 +0000 From: Robert Eeg Subject: Re: COZY: Engine Mount DFinn7971@aol.com wrote: > > Hello All, > > I received my engine mount from Weldtech yesterday (about three or four weeks > delivery). To my rather inexperienced eye it looks to be quite well done. > > Now for the question. It will be a year or two before I hang the engine. Do > I need to do anything to protect the mount in the meantime. What I'm > thinking of is to apply a coat of paint. If this is a good idea, what type > of paint would you recommend. > > Thanks, > Dick FinnDick.. I would get the engine mount "powder coated" Bob Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:28:38 -0400 (EDT) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: COZY: Engine Mount Hello All, I received my engine mount from Weldtech yesterday (about three or four weeks delivery). To my rather inexperienced eye it looks to be quite well done. Now for the question. It will be a year or two before I hang the engine. Do I need to do anything to protect the mount in the meantime. What I'm thinking of is to apply a coat of paint. If this is a good idea, what type of paint would you recommend. Thanks, Dick Finn Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:26:43 -0400 From: "David R. Kuechenmeister" Subject: Re: COZY: Engine Mount What I've read concerning engine mounts is to paint them a light color so that cracks can be seen easily. I plan to just use some white epoxy spray paint that the local hardware/auto paint store sells. Another thing that the tube and fabric crowd will do for corrosion protection is coat the inside of the structure with linseed oil. My engine mount is open on the ends, so I don't know how well something like that would work. Regards, Dave At 1:28 PM -0400 5/29/97, DFinn7971@aol.com wrote: >Hello All, > >I received my engine mount from Weldtech yesterday (about three or four weeks >delivery). To my rather inexperienced eye it looks to be quite well done. > >Now for the question. It will be a year or two before I hang the engine. Do >I need to do anything to protect the mount in the meantime. What I'm >thinking of is to apply a coat of paint. If this is a good idea, what type >of paint would you recommend. > >Thanks, >Dick Finn -- David R. Kuechenmeister Long-EZ #779 (770)528-7738 Atlanta, Georgia Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:40:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Engine Mount In a message dated 5/30/97 12:06:51 AM, you wrote: << Another thing that the tube and fabric crowd will do for corrosion protection is coat the inside of the structure with linseed oil. My engine mount is open on the ends, so I don't know how well something like that would work.>> Linseed oil works great. Boil the oil and pour in the tube allow to cool then pour it out. It will leave a protective coating inside. Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: COZY: Engine Mount Hello All, Many thanks for the great suggestions on how to prepare/store my engine mount. The suggestions boil down into a couple of major items: 1. Powder coat the mount 2. Paint it white (or some light color) to ease finding any cracks, 3. Pour boiled linseed oil inside the tubes to coat the inside of the mount. 4. Wrap the mount (with some desicant) in plastic wrap (Saran Wrap). In looking at the mount from Weldtech I noted a hole in each tube that has been plugged. I suspect that this hole was used for oil to coat the inside of the tube but I plan to follow up with Weldtech to confirm this. I'll let you all know the results. My plans are to powder coat the mount in some light color (white??) and wrap it in Saran Wrap with some desicant. Now the problem -- I have made calls to several automotive dealerships and one paint shop but no one knows anything about powder coating. Even though this seems to be a specialty process I'm sure someone in a city the size of Chicago must do the work. Can anyone give me a hint as to how to find a vendor. What would I look under in the Yellow Pages (I've tried Painting Contractors). Is there some industry that would use the process? Any help would be appreciated. Many Thanks, Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:56:48 -0700 From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: COZY: Engine Mount > >In looking at the mount from Weldtech I noted a hole in each tube that has >been plugged. I suspect that this hole was used for oil to coat the inside >of the tube but I plan to follow up with Weldtech to confirm this. Dick, I talked with Richard about this and the holes are for venting while he welds the main joints. Afterwards, he just welds the vent holes closed. He does not put any type of rust inhibitors inside the tubes as they are sealed. I painted mine with MarHyde self-etching primer. The RV crowd does this with good results. Auto stores sell it in spray cans and one will do it. It cost me about $13. Eric Westland * Cozy Mark IV - Still sanding * Mukilteo, Washington From: McGrath Alice R Subject: COZY: Engine Tach Drive Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:10:12 -0500 We have a Lycoming L0-235-L2C engine for our Cozy 3. This engine has a tach drive. Our mechanic is removing the pin drive internal to the engine on the tach drive. What kind of a cover (cap) do we need to plug this area after removing it? Is there an SAE cap? Do you know of any specifications? What have you builders done? Thanks. Alice and Ron McGrath Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 11:41:02 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Engine Tach Drive Alice & Ron McGrath wrote: "Our mechanic is removing the pin drive internal to the engine on the tach drive. What kind of a cover (cap) do we need to plug this area after removing it?" I'm curious as to why your mechanic is removing the drive. If you leave it in you could just cover it with a plastic cap. I used the drive on my O320 together with a Westac 303-DGT sender to run my digital tachometer. Works fine. Bob Misterka N342RM Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:29:50 -0400 From: glenn murray Subject: COZY: Engine mounts Does anyone out there know the part No's of engine mountings required for the dynafocal mount supplied by ken brock? I'm fitting a Lycoming 0320 E2A engine (x piper cherokee) I was given two complete mountings with the cherokee engine,and wondered wether or not I could use them and get away with just buying 2 more? Can anyone also explain how I could check the ignition timing on the mags= to make sure they are correct before I install the engine.I recon it woul= d be quite tricky to alter it later one given the lack of clearance between ma= gs and firewall Finally ,does anyone have the E-Mail address for Wicks A/C supplies Thanks in advance Glenn Murray (UK) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:41:22 -0400 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: COZY: Re: Cozy engine mounts I believe the Wicks catalog has the part numbers listed. They are the heavy duty ones. As a side note I had to use engine bolts that were two sizes smaller than called out in the plans in order to get the correct "squeeze" on the mounts. Paul Burkhardt From: MISTER@neesnet.com Date: Tue, 09 Sep 97 07:40:36 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Cozy engine mounts Paul Burkhardt said: "I had to use engine bolts that were two sizes smaller than called out in the plans in order to get the correct "squeeze" on the mounts." Paul, how do you determine when you have the correct amount of "squeeze"? Bob Misterka N342RM ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ From: MISTER@neesnet.com Date: Tue, 09 Sep 97 08:48:58 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Engine mounts Glen: When you look at the prices of new Lord mountings you'll probably be quite shocked. Wicks sells some Dynafocal mounts for homebuilts (their cat # EM-100-005). That's what I used with my O320-E3D. They're not cheap either! As for setting the mags up, the best device I've found is the mag synchronizer sold by Aircraft Tool Supply (I think US Tool sells it too as a dual magneto timing light). If you have Slick mags like I do, all you need do is hook up the synchronizer, find top dead center of #1 cyl, back off to your timing mark and insert the mags with the timing pin installed. Then remove the pins and adjust each mag so the points just open. I suppose you can use a drill bit instead of the timing pin but I bopught one from El Reno Aviation. Make sure that your impulse coupling isn't advancing the timing on you when you do this setup! Hope this helps, Bob Misterka Cozy 3 N342RM You'll have to shop around for sources in the UK. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: Engine mounts Author: glenn murray at INTERNET Date: 9/8/97 2:37 PM Does anyone out there know the part No's of engine mountings required for the dynafocal mount supplied by ken brock? I'm fitting a Lycoming 0320 E2A engine (x piper cherokee) I was given two complete mountings with the cherokee engine,and wondered wether or not I could use them and get away with just buying 2 more? Can anyone also explain how I could check the ignition timing on the mags= to make sure they are correct before I install the engine.I recon it woul= d be quite tricky to alter it later one given the lack of clearance between ma= gs and firewall Finally ,does anyone have the E-Mail address for Wicks A/C supplies Thanks in advance Glenn Murray (UK) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:51:46 -0400 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Cozy engine mounts MISTER@neesnet.com wrote: > > Paul Burkhardt said: "I had to use engine bolts that were two sizes > smaller than called out in the plans in order to get the correct > "squeeze" on the mounts." > > Paul, how do you determine when you have the correct amount of > "squeeze"? > > > Bob Misterka N342RM > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Bob, I just found your response buried in ever increasing volume of e-mail... However, as I recall when I used the stock (plans) bolt, I noticed that there was way too much thread hanging out and I was actually at the ends of the thread(bottomed out). I then purchased another bolt set one size smaller and again the same result. On the final set I got what I felt was the correct squeeze, the black rubber portion of the mount was just bulging out a little. I could also tell that the metal spacer which is inside the mount had touched the washers on the mount ends. The nut this time was about half way down the threads which is about right I figured. Hope this helps. Paul Burkhardt Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:18:51 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: Thrust - line Does anyone have the exact WL position for the engine thrust-line with respect to the top of the longerons please? (Or any other reference ) Rego Burger CZ4#139 RSA by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-8 #23426) with SMTP id <01INPB3Q8XKS90XMC4@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:41:59 EDT Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:39:09 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Thrust - line Organization: AEROCAD INC. Rego Burger wrote: > Does anyone have the exact WL position for the engine thrust-line with > respect to the top of the longerons please? (Or any other reference ) Rego, The MKIV is at thrust-line 21. All the rest of the EZ's ar at 20. This was covered in a news letter way back when the cowlings were made from Nat and he found that the spinner was too low in his cowl. He opted to change the engine mount to change the engine hight. -- Jeff Russell/AeroCad Inc. E-mail: Jeff@aerocad.com Phone/ fax (call first): 910-961-2238 AeroCad: http://www.aerocad.com Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-8 #23426) with SMTP id <01INPR1B78QC90S4Y4@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:18:10 EDT Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:15:27 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Thrust - line -Reply Organization: AEROCAD INC. Rego Burger wrote: > Is that WL 21? Rego, The top of the longeron is at WL (water line) 23", the center of the engine where the prop bolts up is 21". This TL 21" is at a angle of about 1-2 degrees so to give nose up push with power from the prop. > Rego Burger wrote: > > > Does anyone have the exact WL position for the engine thrust-line with > > respect to the top of the longerons please? (Or any other reference ) > Rego, The MKIV is at thrust-line 21. All the rest of the EZ's ar at > 20. This was covered in a news letter way back when the cowlings were > made from Nat and he found that the spinner was too low in his cowl. > He opted to change the engine mount to change the engine hight. -- Jeff From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: COZY: Thrust Line Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:48:05 -0400 Jeff Russell writes: > Rego, The top of the longeron is at WL (water line) 23", the center of the > engine where the prop bolts up is 21". This TL 21" is at a angle of about > 1-2 degrees so to give nose up push with power from the prop. When I was making my engine mounts for my Subaru SVX (EG33) installation. I used the plans for the Lycoming mount as a guide. I estimated that the crankshaft intercepted the firewall at WL 21.5 which is close to Jeff's numbers. I also detected a 1.5 degree thrust line angle with the prop being higher than the front of the engine. I attributed this to account for sag of the engine mount rubbers when stressed with a 350 LB engine. My guess is that the overall tilt is approximately zero which puts the prop at WL 21.5. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------- Phillip Johnson Ottawa Ontario Canada Cozy MKIV RG Subaru EG33 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:23:49 -0700 From: "James J. Cullen, Ph.D." Subject: COZY: WeldTech Engine Mounts Hi Again: I just received my WeldTech engine mount from Richard. Needless to say, the workmanship is quite excellent and the timing may have been a record -- about three weeks -- especially in light of the fact that he and his wife were moving at the time! I have two questions for the group. First, I noticed that every tube on the mount has a small what-appears-to-be-a spot weld. I assume that this weld fills in a breather hole in each tube that was left open while the joints were being welded. However, I seem to remember, somewhere back in antiquity, reading that we are supposed to drill a small hole in each tube, add a few drops of linseed oil, and then plug the holes with a small self-tapping screw and perhaps a rubber washer. Does anyone know if Richard adds linseed oil to the tubes before welding the breather holes shut? If not, is anyone drilling and adding the oil to his mount? If so, how are you going about it? What size hole, screw, washer, etc. Second Question: I was thinking of having the mount sandblasted and powder coated. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? I seem to recall someone mentioning that powder coating the mount makes it harder to locate cracks. Is this true? If so, can anyone recommend a source for high-tempreature paints that might be suitable for use on the mounts? Thanks again... Jim Cullen From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:03:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: WeldTech Engine Mounts 1: As long as any hollow (tubular) structure of steel is sealed, so no additional air interchange, or water (oxygen) can enter, the oxygen sealed in will in short time be combined to form a small amount rust on the interior, which is not harmful. As long as the unit is sealed, no further rusting will occur. I did not break the seals, and do not recommend, as more harm will be done. Incidently this process applies to all size of structures, including large bridges, which is more my professional turf. 2: My mount is powder coated. White color is best because rust and cracks will be more visible. Any good coating i.e. urethane or epoxy will probably OK also. High temperature is not required since the mount shouldn't see more than 250 degrees F, unless you have a major fire, and in that case if low temperature paint is blistered, the mount should be scrapped, since you really don't know the hidden (temper or hardness, or heat induced stresses Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:48:54 -0400 From: glenn murray Subject: COZY: Rev Counter Can anyone recommend and advise me on how to install an electronic rev counter for my 0320-E2A.(ex piper cherokee) The manual drive mechanism I feel would be too far from the firewall to t= he instrument panel. Anyone got any ideas? Glenn Murray P>S My tuppence worth regarding the electronic nose lift. is to always keep KISS to the forefront. From: MISTER@neesnet.com Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 07:40:15 EST Subject: Re: COZY: Rev Counter Glen Murray asked:"Can anyone recommend and advise me on how to install an electronic rev counter for my 0320-E2A.(ex piper cherokee)" Glen: Depending on the tach you have, a P lead connection might work. I personally prefer using a Westach 303-DGT sender unit to drive an electronic tach. Bob Misterka N342RM From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: COZY: Rev Counter Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 14:56:02 MDT > Can anyone recommend and advise me on how to install an electronic > rev counter for my 0320-E2A.(ex piper cherokee) > The manual drive mechanism I feel would be too far from the firewall to the > instrument panel. > Anyone got any ideas? Jeff Rose at Electroair has a nice digital tach that is a modified automotive unit that will work with a combination of electronic ignition and/or mags or both. You can connect it to the p-leads which need to be up in the cockpit anyway for the mag switches. There is a fuse to prevent it from unintentionally cutting off the mags through an internal short. Believe it or not, that has been the cause of several accidents using p-lead tachs. It costs around $125 and will fit in a 2 1/2 instrument hole. I replaced my analog tach with one and it works much better and is a lot more accurate. Lee Devlin Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:28:26 -0400 From: "Edmond A. Richards" Subject: COZY: Oil Drain Problem HELP HELP! = Do any of the engine gurus out there know the secret to removing the "quick" oil drain fitting from the oil sump of an O-360. The fitting has= to move out of the way of the Ellison TBI and I cant budge it. I presume= that some form of Loctite or other thread lock was used but I dont know h= ow to release it. The real problem is the fitting is aluminum and the wrenc= h shears off the material rather than turn the thread. At this point the fitting is junk but I still cant get it out not even with a pipe wrench. = Ive tried a heat gun to warn the area but Im reluctant to use a torch as = am afraid I might crack the sump or some other part of the engine. Any idea= s? Thanks in advance for your input. = Ed Richards Cozy #088 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:21:05 -0500 From: glenn murray Subject: COZY: Oil filter housing Can anyone tell me where I can buy an Oil filter housing (90 Deg) for my 0320 engine? the oil-filter fitted to the engine wont fit between the engine and firewall!! I know there is a replacement housing but I dont know who supplies them or a part No to go by> Your help appreciated Glenn Murray = Cozy 3 nearly there!!! Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:07:26 -0500 From: Rob Cherney Subject: Re: COZY: Oil filter housing At 03:21 PM 11/22/97 -0500, glenn murray wrote: >Can anyone tell me where I can buy an Oil filter housing (90 Deg) for my >0320 engine? Try: B&C Specialty Products 123 E. 4th Street, P.O. Box B Newton, KS 67114 316-283-8000 Rob- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Robert Cherney Home Phone: (410)465-5598 | |Ellicott City, Maryland e-mail: cherney@home.com | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:42:55 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: COZY: Re: Oil filter housing update Have you folk seen the new oil filter adapter that B&C has developed? They're just finishing their STC work but it's been available for about a year to experimental a/c. The part is 100% hogged-out aluminum. It's been flow tested to comare with Lycoming's straight out adapter and found to produce less back pressure at the same flow. This adapter turns the filter at right angles to the crankshaft axis . . . uses NO extra pumbing and provides filter installations in airplanes too crowded to accomodate the conventional adapter. Contact B&C directly at 316-283-8000 Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= | | | Go ahead, make my day . . . . | | Show me where I'm wrong. | ================================= Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:31:35 -0500 From: glenn murray Subject: COZY: Oil filter housing update Hi, I've had a good response to my request for a 90 deg housing as usual from= you guys. One was interesting in so much as he said that a screw on type auto filte= r without the current housing would do the trick. Does it have to be any particular filter or just anyone that would fit th= e threads and have a good seal.I would also like to be able to wire-lock it in plac= e for extra security. Once again your help appreciated(A Champion spin on part no would be good= ) regards Glenn Murray. From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 17:53:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Oil filter housing update On 11/23/97 15:42:55 you wrote: > >Have you folk seen the new oil filter adapter that B&C >has developed? They're just finishing their STC work but >it's been available for about a year to experimental >a/c. > >The part is 100% hogged-out aluminum. It's been flow >tested to comare with Lycoming's straight out adapter >and found to produce less back pressure at the same >flow. This adapter turns the filter at right angles to >the crankshaft axis . . . uses NO extra pumbing and >provides filter installations in airplanes too >crowded to accomodate the conventional adapter. > >Contact B&C directly at 316-283-8000 > > Bob . . . > AeroElectric Connection > > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= > | | > | Go ahead, make my day . . . . | > | Show me where I'm wrong. | > ================================= > > > The Lycoming unit yields much more clearance to other accessories in the area when the firewall is close in. This makes maintenance an inspection much easier, resulting in better safety. Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:07:28 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: Oil filter housing update Glenn, re "Does it have to be any particular filter or just anyone that would fit the threads and have a good seal.I would also like to be able to wire-lock it in place for extra security." I found that there are many auto filters that will fit...some very small, some bigger...go to an Auto Zone or simular parts store and check it out. The problem that brought me to a dead stop on this issue was figuring out a way to safety wire the filter. I know some guys are using a large hose clamp, but I'd rather not do that...nothing personal, it simply does not meet my standards for safetying a filter. I found that the side wall construction of auto filters is not as thick as certified airplane units...I don't know what a hose clamp squeezing that skinny wall will do whatwith all the vibration, and high temperatures and pressures. It may be OK, but I don't know for sure, and I don't feel like testing it. The consequences could be kind of messy. Finally, I settled on an ADC screen filter system. There's some controversy over just how effective they are, but they do provide about 20 to 30 degrees extra cooling, so there is some benefit even if the filtration is not as good as a paper filter. If one changes oil ever 25 hours, the filtration issue isn't that big a deal anyhow. ADC does provide for a chip detector and a bypass lights which is rather comforting. dd From: "norm & monda" Subject: Re: COZY: Oil filter housing update Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:21:42 -0500 go to a speed shop and order an K&N oil filter they have a hub on the bottom and it has a lockwire hole in it, this is what i use on the ford norm Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 19:19:55 -0600 (CST) From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Subject: Fwd: Re: COZY: Re: Oil filter housing update ------Begin forward message------------------------- From: cdenk To: nuckolls@aeroelectric.com To: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: 11/24/97 20:17:42 Message-Id: <19971124201742226500@> Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Oil filter housing update X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.25, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. On 11/24/97 01:10:40 you wrote: > >At 05:53 PM 11/23/97 -0600, you wrote: > >> >>The Lycoming unit yields much more clearance to other accessories in the >area when the >>firewall is close in. This makes maintenance an inspection much easier, >resulting in >>better safety. >> > I'm confused . . . if the Lycoming filter installation > rises further off the accessory case because the filter > is parallel to the crankshaft, how is it that rotating > the filter axis 90 degrees gives more clearance? If > there's enough clearance to allow installation and > removal of the stock spin-on filter from Lycoming, then > obviously, no right angle adapter is needed but I'm > having trouble visualizing your statement. > > Bob . . . > AeroElectric Connection > > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= > | | > | Go ahead, make my day . . . . | > | Show me where I'm wrong. | > ================================= > > > The Lycoming adapter I talk of is a remote mount (on the end of flexible tubing). The tubing (rubber or prefered teflon) is connected to the engine at the usual oil cooler ports. The oil cooler gets plumbed to the remote mount also, wher the vernatherm valve is also located. Now throw away the filter adapter that usually resides near the top forward (for a pusher) side of the accessory case. The flat surface left receives a flat (roughly) cover plate that has 2 tapped holes for temperature sensors. I use them for my JPI slimline oil temp gauge, and also the ultimate scanner thermocouple. With the flate plate cover, the space between the vacuum pump and right (pusher) magneto is clear, and it is easy to get your hand and wrist down to other items aft of the firewall. Lycoming also makes another remote adapter that has hoses attached to it and wouldn't fit along with others on the market 5 years ago. I don't think B & C unit will fit with my close clearances. ------End forward message--------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:42:15 -0800 From: Stetson Elliott Subject: Re: COZY: Oil filter housing update glenn murray wrote: > Hi, > I've had a good response to my request for a 90 deg housing as usual > from > you > guys. > One was interesting in so much as he said that a screw on type auto > filter > without the current housing would do the trick. > Does it have to be any particular filter or just anyone that would fit > the > threads > and have a good seal.I would also like to be able to wire-lock it in > place > for extra security. > Once again your help appreciated(A Champion spin on part no would be > good) > regards > Glenn Murray. As it happens, I was going through back issues of Central States just last night, and came across an article by Gary Hertzler on the subject of automotive filters. I'd strongly suggest you read it before using just any old filter. Something about the filter having to have an internal bypass, or otherwise, it might rupture under certain situations. I'm no expert in this area - so read the article. It was published within the last two years. -- Stet Elliott flyez@earthlink.net Long-EZ N321EF Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:27:01 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: COZY: primer nozzles while finshing my engine installation i came across a problem with the fuel primer nozzles. It seems that they have a differnt type of compression fitting than the typical 37 deg flare. I have some of the original primer tubing with the fittings attached, however I need to extend and/or shorten the lenghts of these tubes. I was planning on just ordering aluminum tubing and installing flared fittings, until I noticed the difference in the type of fittings. Help me out here boys. Paul Burkhardt From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:45:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: primer nozzles On 12/17/97 10:37:03 you wrote: > > You need a special flaring tool. Not only is the angle > different, all aircraft flares should be double flair. > The tool folds the material twice. This is supposed to > eliminate failures from metal fatigue > > Is that still a 37 degree flare on the primer? Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:45:16 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: primer nozzles Paul, I am using AN4022 Primer Nozzles from Wicks (page 241) and I'm rather certain they are 37=B0 fittings. I used my 37=B0 flaring tool on 1/8' copper tubing and they went together OK and do not leak. dd Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:51:14 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: primer nozzles re "Is that still a 37 degree flare on the primer?" I hope it is, cause that's what I used on my tubing. I've not ever heard of anything but 37=B0 on airplanes, but there's a lot I don't know about this business. dd From: NICEEZ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:03:12 EST Subject: COZY: Re: [canard-aviators] primer nozzles Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) In a message dated 97-12-17 10:29:48 EST, pburkha238@monmouth.com writes: << I was planning on just ordering aluminum tubing and installing flared fittings, until I noticed the difference in the type of fittings. Help me out here boys. Paul Burkhardt >> Paul, Primer line is Steel ........ not aluminum........aluminum will not stand up to the resonance of the engine. My suggestion is to get the proper primer parts of steel & brass. dale From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:37:24 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: COZY: primer nozzles I think the flare angle is 37 deg. The differrence is the double flare requirement. Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:50:20 -0500 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: primer nozzles Paul, I need to clarify a post I made on this subject yesterday. You probably are aware of this, but for the benefit of those who are not, Lycoming uses a fitting, AN4022, that screws into the cylinder head. It will fit into the either port, one is for prime and the other is for injection, and either will work. (Either of these ports will also work for a vacuum pick up) I said I thought the fitting had a 37=B0 flare. It does not. It will only accomodate a AN800 code union which is soldier into the copper tubing and then held in place with a nut. (Ken Miller straightened me out on this one and he is absolutely correct) I did in fact soldier the union into my fittings (4) but completely forgot doing it until Ken mentioned that a flare fitting will evenually leak. (I've been working on this airplane so long I'm beginning to forget what I did and what I didn't do.) dd From: wilhelmson@scra.org Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:28:53 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: COZY: primer nozzles Guys, You guys are correct. Primer tubing does not use flare fittings. For the record, I looked up the recommended use of flared tubing in the A&P bible last night and found that 37 deg single flare on copper is ok however, 37 deg double flare is recommended on aluminum tubing. by m5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id TVU20843; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:19:28 EST Subject: COZY: Exhaust Pipes From: mbeduhn@juno.com (Mark W Beduhn) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:19:28 EST Hi everyone, I was talking to a VE owner a couple of days ago (discussing speed modifications) and he mentioned that some people have relocated their exhaust pipes closer to the spinner. He said that the end of the pipes is actually inside of the cowl about 8" from the centerline of the engine. Has anyone done this? If so, did you see any performance inprovement? Thanks, Mark Beduhn Cozy IV N494CZ