Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:21:10 -0500 From: Rick Roberts <102503.1561@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: COZY: Spraylat I just bought a real neat little book called "Working with Acrylics" from craftics, inc., I'm looking for any and all info on canopy forming. Anyway, on the subject of spraylat, they suggest applying a new coat over the old and trying to remove it after it dries. And if that doesn't work, they suggest applying even more and putting cheesecloth into it to hold it together, then try to remove. Gee, a new composite material spraylat and cheesecloth, hey Chris van Hoof, can you develop some quick numbers on this stuff? I haven't tried this but the rest of the book is pretty good. Rick Roberts -------------Forwarded Message----------------- >Bear Phillip's admonition to TEST if you use alcohol, I seem to remember that >Methyl Alcohol will cause 'crazing' on PMMA (poly-methyl-methacrylate) >[commonly called Acrylic]. > >Bill Schertz Absolutely true. We use a lot of Acrylic around the lab, here at work, and alcohol is a definite no-no. This is a relevant question, for me, as well, as the spray lat has been on my Long EZ canopy for longer than I am willing to admit. I was told that it just peels off, clean, but I only have experience with APPLYING it, so far. I don't know if any solvent is appropriate, but I do know that an approved one for Acrylic is kerosene. Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 from Herbert Rodgers Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 12:57:50 EST From: "KEN SARGENT" Subject: Re: COZY: canopy - spraylat Replied before, but not to the group. You can use masking or other tape to peel of latex or PVA coatings. Ken Sargent #555 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: canopy - spraylat Author: Chris van Hoof at disney-wdw-internet Date: 1/8/97 10:54 AM hi to all, Our local acrylic window manufacturer feels for those with the spraylat problem and they convey the following info:- Removal of spraylat can also be attempted using latex application (also latex/cheesecloth) Also more spraylat.... Could also try normal Avgas if all else fails. Also try domestic window cleaner without detergent? (is this a contradiction?) my .02c chris #219 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:04:01 -0800 From: Chris van Hoof Organization: C van Hoof - Architect Subject: COZY: Canopy Hi there, my 0.02c. Acrylic's are such fantastic materials. During installation of the rear window of my Partenavia P64B, I learned not to use a Jig Saw (Sabre Saw in the US I think) never mind what wizzardry is described on the blade packaging. I've now ordered a new window... it takes a fraction of a millisecond for the crack to appear. In the meantime its fixed using Methylene Chloride - put pieces together, apply some M C with brush & let capillary action feed the liquid in. (but the crack stays there for all to see) They (manufacturer) suggested the use of a beltsander or bandsaw...anyway the beltsander works great, it takes 1/2" away in no time at all... drilling... don't forget to blunt the cutting edge of the drillbit or you could drill using the reverse action on the machine. hope this helps someone. chris #219 in chapter 08 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:09:51 -0800 From: Chris van Hoof Organization: C van Hoof - Architect Subject: COZY: canopy - spraylat hi to all, Our local acrylic window manufacturer feels for those with the spraylat problem and they convey the following info:- Removal of spraylat can also be attempted using latex application (also latex/cheesecloth) Also more spraylat.... Could also try normal Avgas if all else fails. Also try domestic window cleaner without detergent? (is this a contradiction?) my .02c chris #219 From: Roger & Cindy Shell Subject: COZY: Canopy mechanism Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:01:23 -0700 Pat Young mentioned he installed his canopy to open forward ala Cozy = Classic. Will someone please explain how this setup works, and how the = rear canopy is attached? Roger Shell N357CZ Chapter 14 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:56:29 -0500 From: Phillip.Johnson@kan.lmcda.lmco.com (Phillip Johnson) Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy mechanism Roger Shell Writes: > Pat Young mentioned he installed his canopy to open forward ala > Cozy Classic. Wil l someone please explain how this setup works, > and how the rear canopy is attache d? I guess that I have a similar system except that my canopy finishes just behind the pilots head and I incorporate a gull wing door for the rear seats. In the case of the Cosy Classic the whole canopy, that would normally roll sideways, is now hinged forwards. I installed a bronze bearing one each side alongside the front longeron and doubler. The bronze bearing was installed in a scrap of spruce and secured with a couple of plies of BID and flox. I made some composite 'C' shaped hinges to allow the canopy to hinge around the structure above the pivot and attached a 1/2" 4130 tube to the 'C' form such that it locates in the bronze bearing. The 1/2" 4130 tube is a weldment that attaches to a plate that is then attached to the C form thereby making the system removable. There are a number of fiddly lay-ups that are necessary to attach the C form to the canopy so that it is good and secure. Sorry that this post is not very clear but it really requires a drawing to explain it correctly. Phillip Johnson by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-4 #16063) with SMTP id <01IDXFWG1AE20019RD@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:40:52 PST Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:41:33 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: Spraylat >Bear Phillip's admonition to TEST if you use alcohol, I seem to remember that >Methyl Alcohol will cause 'crazing' on PMMA (poly-methyl-methacrylate) >[commonly called Acrylic]. > >Bill Schertz Absolutely true. We use a lot of Acrylic around the lab, here at work, and alcohol is a definite no-no. This is a relevant question, for me, as well, as the spray lat has been on my Long EZ canopy for longer than I am willing to admit. I was told that it just peels off, clean, but I only have experience with APPLYING it, so far. I don't know if any solvent is appropriate, but I do know that an approved one for Acrylic is kerosene. Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-4 #16063) with SMTP id <01IDYWR2LNY40018NX@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:53:42 PST Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:54:26 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: canopy - spraylat > >Also try domestic window cleaner without detergent? (is this a >contradiction?) > >my .02c > >chris #219 Just make sure that there is no ALCOHOL in the cleaner. --Howard Rogers, 415-926-4052 hrogers@slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:24:04 -0600 From: Paul Comte Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 18: TB1 bulkhead question Brian DeFord wrote: > > Folks, > I would like some advice advice on the TB1 bulkhead which is the > bulkhead at the forward end of the turtleback. I would like to eliminate > this piece if possible and still provide support for the turtleback. The What affect to turnover protection by making these modifications? One thought I had on a turtleback "rib" is that if you were able to layup a number of low profile webs over a wider area you could gain stiffness and perhaps provide a mount for a center hand hold. Paul Comte Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 11:18:00 PST From: Brian DeFord Subject: COZY: Chapter 18: TB1 bulkhead question Folks, I would like some advice advice on the TB1 bulkhead which is the bulkhead at the forward end of the turtleback. I would like to eliminate this piece if possible and still provide support for the turtleback. The bulkhead appears to isolate the rear seat passengers from the front seats with the exception of the small cutout areas (which is what I want to eliminate). From my observation, the bulkhead also provides the following: 1) support for the canopy structure I would like to build a solid fiberglass "hoop" in the same area that the bulkhead would be attached by removing the 1/4 inch foam a couple of inches wide and laying up UNI glass plies until I have a 1/4 inch hoop (sort of like a 1/4 inch thick spar cap in the shape of the canopy outline). I haven't done any analysis of this yet, so I don't know if the strength will be adequate. Definitely more homework to do before I proceed. 2) a place to attach the canopy gas spring I will relocate the attach point - not an issue for me 3) a place to mount the pilot's head rest I have already modified my head rests - not an issue for me Sooo...Please send me some feedback on your collective thoughts. Am I all wet, am I missing something, etc, etc. Thanks. Brian DeFord From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Chapter 18: TB1 bulkhead question (fwd) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 9:47:53 EST Brian DeFord wrote (3 times, no less :-) ): > I would like to build a solid fiberglass "hoop" in the same area > that the bulkhead would be attached by removing the 1/4 inch > foam a couple of inches wide and laying up UNI glass plies until > I have a 1/4 inch hoop (sort of like a 1/4 inch thick spar cap > in the shape of the canopy outline). I haven't done any analysis > of this yet, so I don't know if the strength will be adequate. I believe the issue is one of stiffness, not strength. The idea is to brace the canopy across the bottom, as well as stiffen in around the circumference. In looking at the plans last night, I would guess that the width of the "rib" could be lessened to allow for more "air space", but I can guarantee that when you do the analysis, you will find that it will be impossible to achieve the stiffness of the TB-1 with only 1/4" of glass in a hoop, especially without a cross member at the bottom. Stiffness scales as the cube of the thickness, but only linearly with the width. You'd need about a 27 inch width of glass 1/4" thick to match the stiffness of a 2" thick (rib height) foam rib with 2 layers of glass on either side. You don't want to ask what this will weigh :-). You could make the cross piece at the bottom smaller as well, especially if you make it a "T" section like: | | | | | | ------------- ------------- This will give you the stiffness without blocking as much viewing area. Closing that section (turning the reinforcement into an "O" instead of a "C") increases the stiffness by a huge amount. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: KSPREUER@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 18 - TB1 bulkhead questions In a message dated 97-02-04 10:33:08 EST, you write: << Subj: COZY: Chap 18 - TB1 bulkhead questions >> I would like to eliminate the need for the TB1 bulkhead which goes at the forward end of the turtleback/canopy shell and replace it with a solid 1/4 inch thick fiberglass "hoop". I would do this by removing the foam at the forward edge of the bulkhead and lay in 2-3 inch wide strips of UNI cloth to get the desired thickness. I am fielding the question to see if there is any wisdom in why this could or should not be done before I do any analysis on how strong it would be. Maybe someone has seen this or some other solution. I am aware that the canopy gas spring is mounted to this bulkhead and I would have to mount it differently. I am also aware that the passenger seat headrest is usually mounted on the bulkhead, but I chose another headrest scheme and this will not affect me. Any inputs???>>>> >>> Yes. I did somthing very similar. I wanted to not block the rear seat view so much with head rests and bulkhead. I escentially left the part of the bulkhead that attaches to the turttleback and cut off everything else. I then reinforced the remaining aprox 2" hoop with several plies of uni and some bid. I'd have to look up the schedule. I then put a pin in the bottom of both sides of the hoop and mated bushings in the seat back. The pins seat in the bushings when the canopy is closed thus tying the hoop into the seat back so it can't spread if loaded as a roll bar. If your interested I can get more details. Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:43:38 -0500 (EST) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 18 - TB1 bulkhead questions In a message dated 97-02-06 01:46:22 EST, KSPREUER@aol.com writes: << The pins seat in the bushings when the canopy is closed thus tying the hoop into the seat back so it can't spread if loaded as a roll bar. If your interested I can get more details. >> There has been some discussion related to the inability of the canopy/turtleback to act as a roll bar in a crash. In fact, I seem to remember that this was a contributing cause of the death of our EAA Chapter President in a crash of his VE a year or two ago. It seems to me that the use of the pins is a good idea. I can't help but wonder if they might add enough strength to prevent the canopy from spreading and collapsing in a flip over. I have finished the turtleback but am waiting till the plane is out of the basement before attaching it. What do you guys think about adding a steel tube bent to shape along perimeter and bottom of the TB1 bulkhead. Combine this with the pins and I'd think you would have a pretty good roll bar with only minimal added weight.. God forbid it would ever get tested! Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 11:24:38 -0500 From: "Jeff S. Russell" Organization: AEROCAD INC. Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 18 - TB1 bulkhead questions DFinn7971@aol.com wrote: > I have finished the turtleback but am waiting till the plane is out of the > basement before attaching it. What do you guys think about adding a steel > tube bent to shape along perimeter and bottom of the TB1 bulkhead. Combine > this with the pins and I'd think you would have a pretty good roll bar with > only minimal added weight.. Bruce has that type of arangement in his airplane, a roll bar was installed instead of the headrest. You can reach him at: FLYING MARCH 96 310-725-7004 H BRUCE ELKIND Cozy MkIV converted 310-644-9090 W 13414 S.PRAIRE HAWTHORNE, CA. 90250 -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell 1445 Crater Lane Yadkinville, NC. 27055 phone/ call first for fax 910-961-2238 NEW E-mail: JRAEROCAD@yadtel.net NEW homepage address: http://www.binary.net/aerocad Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:58:24 -0500 (EST) From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 18 - TB1 bulkhead questions >>What do you guys think about adding a steel tube bent to shape along perimeter and bottom of the TB1 bulkhead. Combine this with the pins and I'd think you would have a pretty good roll bar with only minimal added weight..<<<<< I might suggest another option--On my highly modified 3 seat ( seats are staggered) Long-EZ (I call it the Wright Flyer) I have a similar bulkhead which is almost directly above the right seat passengers head and about 17" behind the pilots head. I have a 5 lb. foam U section 1-1/2" high 3/4" thick wrapped with 3 plys of S2 glass (same as spar cap material) and 2 plys of BID 716 Carbon fiber @45 degrees on top of that. I can stand on top and nothing will move. I considered a steel bar but wanted to avoid drastically dissimiliar material. I felt the load transfer would be better using composits. Will it hold up if I go upside down during a landing? Who knows! I needed the strength for the canopy attach points. The canopy swings up and back. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:42:41 -0500 (EST) From: JQUESTCOZY@aol.com Subject: COZY: Misc. turtleback question Hi all!, Just a minor question that most likely doesn't matter much either way. In chapter 18 page 3 figure 16 for the turtleback drip rail, the plans call for 2 plies BID and one ply Uni. Anyhow I was wondering if the uni major fibers should run fwd and aft or side to side along the drip rail. The BID I would just cut at the standard 45 bias. Thanks, John Wilemski #227 "Gravity takes no prisoners" Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 16:04:07 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: Re: COZY: Misc. turtleback question JQUESTCOZY@aol.com wrote: Anyhow I was wondering if the uni major fibers > should run fwd and aft or side to side along the drip rail. The BID I would > just cut at the standard 45 bias. > > Thanks, John Wilemski #227 > "Gravity takes no prisoners" I believe the fibers run the length of the rail(uni). You also might want to consider how you will finish the end where it runs into the longeron. I had to later make a flat on the bottom of the rail to let the water out of the plane. you might want to consider doing it while its upsidedown (': Paul Burkhardt Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:22:43 -0500 From: ponciroli@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Subject: COZY: Canopy: clear or smoke? I called the canopy folks and was ready to order when the person asked if I wanted a clear or smoke colored canopy. I remember seeing Vance Atkinsons plane at Oshkosh with a smoke colored canopy, it looked very nice. My question to the group is, does the smoke colored canopy inhibit night vision? I suppose that there is some visual accuity lost due to the limited light passing through, but I haven't a clue how much. Does anyone out there have any idea of what is lost due to the tinting process? If I put a tinted canopy on the plane will I be limited to day operations only? Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:46:31 -0500 From: william l kleb Organization: NASA Langley Research Center Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy: clear or smoke? ponciroli@postoffice.worldnet.att.net wrote: > > My question to the group is, does the smoke colored canopy > inhibit night vision? we have a "smoke" windshield, a green-tinted greenhouse, and clear side windows on our citabria (it's a long story). IMHO: unless you are trying to land at unlit airports during a new moon, you won't notice any night-vision degradation. the ability to see points of light or strobes is virtually uneffected. however, to keep things sufficiently uncertain: the degree of tinting varies from batch-to-batch and manufacturer-to-manufacturer. -- bil Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:04:54 -0600 From: timothy@directcon.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy: clear or smoke? > My question to the group is, does the smoke colored canopy inhibit night > vision? I suppose that there is some visual accuity lost due to the limited > light passing through, but I haven't a clue how much. Does anyone out >there have any idea of what is lost due to the tinting process? If I put a >tinted canopy on the plane will I be limited to day operations only? Sure it will... but lets compare the pros and cons. I lived down in Nat(ville) *phoenix* where 90F+ was spring through fall not to mention very bright. A smoked canopy or a smoked (cooked) cockpit is the choice at hand there. It did not take much sun light to really make things rather hot in Nats plane. I have flown in both canopy "versions", and noticed a significant temp difference when on the ground where your plane will spend most of its traveling time unless you have a hanger available where your going. Compare the vision aspect with tinted car windows. Drive around in a car with lightly tinted windows (close to the tinting in the smoked canopy) at night. You probably won't find yourself straining through side windows to see out (well there is the exception of limo tent). Two other points to consider 1)How is your night vision and 2)How much night flying are you really going to do? Just my $0.02 (equal to tax on a stick of gum ;{) Tim Sullivan (timothy@directcon.net) <-------New address Placerville CA | * | Cozy MK IV Builder #470 |-----(/)-----| The journey begins 8/10/95 / \ Current Status: Ch 9 o o Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:49:31 -0500 (EST) From: astrong@dvsdghse.com Subject: COZY: Smoke or clear? As an alternative consider this option,I am on a private dry lake bed airstrip in the Calico area(near Barstow Ca.)We get probobly 300 days of sunshine. On our first long flight we had to do something about the clear canopy that we have on our 3plc.Our head felt like it was being bar-b-qued.I went to the local Wal Mart and bought some window tinting film,not the kind that is permanently attached to car windows but a heavier type that you can peel off and reattach.We just covered the top of the canopy and left the side clear.Now I feel like I have the best of both choices head protection and visibility.Incidentally this material is flexible and will follow the curvature of the canopy with no wrinkles. Alex A.Strong Cozy III N306AN astrong@dvsdghse.com Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 12:14:18 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Smoke or clear? A. Strong wrote: "I went to the local Wal Mart and bought some window tinting film,not the kind that is permanently attached to car windows but a heavier type that you can peel off and reattach" This is probably a good idea even if you have the smoke tint canopy. Mr. Strong, for reference, please tell us the brand name of the stuff you used? Bob Misterka N342RM From: "Chuck Wolcott" Subject: Re: COZY: Smoke or clear? Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 20:56:52 -0800 I got mine several years ago at "Camping World." Think they have a catalog, and outlets nation wide. It is _much_ cheaper from them than an aviation $upply. Chuck Wolcott chuckw@qnet.com ---------- > From: MISTER@neesnet.com > To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com > Subject: Re: COZY: Smoke or clear? > Date: Friday, March 21, 1997 9:14 AM > > A. Strong wrote: > > "I went to the local Wal Mart and bought some window tinting > film,not the kind that is permanently attached to car windows but > a heavier type that you can peel off and reattach" > > This is probably a good idea even if you have the smoke tint > canopy. > > Mr. Strong, for reference, please tell us the brand name of the > stuff you used? > > Bob Misterka N342RM > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:08:58 -0500 From: ponciroli@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Subject: COZY: Canopy: Clear or Smoked I posed the subject question last week and appreciate the response. I recently visited Nat Puffer to photograph his Franklin engine installation and subsequently was fortunate to get a ride in Nat's Cozy. As a matter of fact I was the 225 lb test fixture that Nat used to test his nose lift device. Its nice to be good for something :-}. I didn't realize at the time that that I was looking through a smoked canopy. I called Nat yesterday and asked him what he thought about the subject question and he recommended using the smoke tinted canopy. Thought I'd pass this on to the group. Don Ponciroli - ponciroli@worldnet.att.net - (860) 464-1158 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 16:20:23 -0500 (EST) From: SMilesCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY In a message dated 97-04-05 12:26:33 EST, you write: > My Problem is I don't like the matching problem on the right > side where the hinge lines are proud of the fuselage... Rego, I have been thinking about this myself, I have seen "flush mount" or "concealed" commercial grade hinges in a "W.W. Grainger" cataloug, (a nation-wide comercial parts wholesaler in the U.S.), and have been trying to get my hands on a sample to see how they actually function, to decide if they would be suitable for the application. I think the quickie had concealed hinges, but I'm not sure. Good luck, let me know what you decide on. Sincerely, Steve Miles Cozy MkIV 272 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 18:58:48 -0800 From: Rego and Noleen Burger Organization: R.N.B. Enterprises Subject: COZY: CANOPY Hi All, Need some advice fast! I wish to skin/glass my cozy canopy u/foam tomorrow. My Problem is I don't like the matching problem on the right side where the hinge lines are proud of the fuselage... What did the guys do here to get it to look nice. It does not match the left pilot side at all as far as looks go. I even feel like redesigning some other system but if someone can save me this step with a simple solution I'd be greatfull. I'm off to an EAA Braai/ Barbeque now so guess it's dawn for USA guys. Please help !!!! Rego Burger P.E. RSA Cozy #139 Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 00:16:19 -0800 From: Mahan Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY SMilesCozy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-04-05 12:26:33 EST, you write: > > > My Problem is I don't like the matching problem on the right > > side where the hinge lines are proud of the fuselage... > > Rego, > > I have been thinking about this myself, I have seen "flush mount" or > "concealed" commercial grade hinges in a "W.W. Grainger" cataloug, (a > nation-wide comercial parts wholesaler in the U.S.), and have been trying to > get my hands on a sample to see how they actually function, to decide if they > would be suitable for the application. > > I think the quickie had concealed hinges, but I'm not sure. > > Good luck, let me know what you decide on. > > Sincerely, > > Steve Miles > Cozy MkIV 272 Just checked -- the Quickie (Q1) had regular piano hinge canopy hinging, not a concealed hinge. Fred in Florida Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:14:28 -0400 (EDT) From: SMilesCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY In a message dated 97-04-06 00:25:00 EST, you write: > Just checked -- the Quickie (Q1) had regular piano hinge canopy hinging, > not a concealed hinge. > > Fred in Florida > You're right. I just remembered where I saw it, Wicks cataloge, it's a "lazy tong hinge" as used in the "Dragonfly". It looks like it will open 90' and could be used for a flush exterior when closed. The other hinge I mentioned is a "comercial grade concealed hinge" manufactured by Stanley. Of course the devil would be in the details, :^) like making sure the hinge lines are accurate and don't bind. Steve Cozy MkIV 272 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY (fwd) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 97 13:07:40 EDT Steve Miles wrote: >You're right. I just remembered where I saw it, Wicks cataloge, it's a "lazy >tong hinge" as used in the "Dragonfly". It looks like it will open 90' and >could be used for a flush exterior when closed. The other hinge I mentioned >is a "comercial grade concealed hinge" manufactured by Stanley. Of course >the devil would be in the details, :^) like making sure the hinge lines are >accurate and don't bind. I purchased one of the Dfly hinges, just to take a look at it and see how it might be used. I couldn't figure out how to get it into the COZY canopy without having it stick 2" - 3" into the passenger compartment - maybe someone else would have some better ideas. It also didn't look quite robust enough to have just two of them holding the MUCH heavier COZY canopy on - getting three or four of them to line up would be an interesting task :-). I don't think we're answering Rego's questions here :-). To make a lame attempt, since I'll probably be doing the same layup as Rego in a week or two, I think the idea is to shape all the urethane as if the hinges weren't there. Then the hinges just protrude out a bit (the plans don't actually say how much - I just did what looked right). This is what I've seen on other COZY's, I think. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 16:45:24 -0700 From: Wayne Lanza <"wlanza@iu.net@wlanza"@iu.net> Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Opening Rob Cherney wrote: > > Help me out here, Jim. What's a doll rod?? > Rob, I believe that Jim is referring to 'dowel' rod. Wooden dowel rod is available at hobby shops, lumber yards, etc. His idea of using it as a seal point is good, I'll have to try it on my MK3. See Ya, Wayne Lanza Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 20:36:55 -0400 From: INFINITY Aerospace Subject: COZY: Canopy Opening Hi Rego and All, Sorry this is late - busy. >Thanks for all ideas on the canopy thing, the rainy weather has also helped me think about it here. I guess I'll keep with the plan idea and 4 ply's of glass are waiting for some sunshine.< Many canards open the canopy forward and still use the canopy latch per plans on both sides, or Hartwell latches on both sides, with cross over activation, to lock the canopy down. This gets rid of the unsightly hinges on the right, easier to allow passengers in the cockpit when giving rides :-) (you don't have to get out), easier to close off the air and rain on the front right corner, don't have the front right corner coming up with temperature change. If you must open the canopy like a coffin :-( , look into putting the hinges out onto the strake (I'll try to go over the installation privately if you like). Also, to keep rain and cold air out, put an 1/8" doll rod around the entire perimeter of the cockpit covered with a light weight 4 oz. glass (model airplane type stuff). When the canopy comes down, the rubber seal comes down on the top of the doll rod. Works great, no matter how you open the canopy. Infinity's Forever, EAA Member EAA Technical Counselor JD EAA Flight Advisor AOPA Member Test Pilot James D. Newman, President LCDR F-14 USNR INFINITY Aerospace Mailing Address: P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 Shipping Address: 1750 Joe Crosson Drive, D-2 El Cajon, CA 92020 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX E-Mail -- INFINITY_Aerospace@CompuServe.com Checkout our other products, Stick Grips, Retractable Main Landing Gear and the Infinity 1 Home Page -- http://Ourworld.CompuServe.com/Homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:51:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: COZY: Turtleback construction When you get to turtleback construc phase, recommend you do not install foam per instructions. Instead of cutting foam into strips and using many seams and alum reinforce and tape, just lay full sheet in bottom of form. Then "sew" the foam to the lattice using bell wire (solid core elec wire) as thread. Start sewing at center and work your way to edge. About 1 stitch per 7" or so. Only thing to watch for is to press foam down against lattice before snugging up your stitch. After securing first sheet, lay second one in place and trim through both sheets along a lattice. Your seam then follows the length of the lattice and the two sheets of foam match perfect. Press the bell wire into the foam to make it flush with foam. Results: Only two seams, no tape required, no alum strips required, fast, and smooth. fwiw -al Thanks to Jim White for horizontal seam idea. From: Michael De Nigris Subject: COZY: MKIV Canopy Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:56:31 +0000 Dear Jeff; I have Cozy MKIV Plans set #184 and will begin building this fall. I recently met Paul Burkhardt of Howell, NJ who is about 85% finished. He purchased the engime mount and cowling from you. He graciously allowed me to inspect his airplane and sit in it. When I closed the canopy I was immediately impressed by the "In Your Face" feeling the canopy imparts. It is literally only inches from your face as I am sure you know. This is the only thing I do not like about the MKIV. Paul said you have a canopy which fits the IV and offers more headroom. Can you tell me if it is also further away from the pilots face? My thoughts since visiting paul are about moving the front seat and the instrument panel rearward about 2 - 3 inches or building the canopy so that the buble plexiglass and its frame is further forward. I hope you can tell me that your canopy design will make all this unnecessary. I would gladly give up some knots for a less clostrophobic cockpit. Please send me information about all your component offerings, via e-mail or regular mail at: 706 Maple Ave., Neptune, NJ 07753. Thank you very much for your time taken to read this message and to respond to it. Regards, Michael De Nigris P.S. I would appreciate any info those of you on the mailing list may offer on this subject. Thanks Michael J. De Nigris Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:10:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: COZY: MKIV Canopy mucho snipping to save space: >He graciously allowed me to inspect his airplane and sit in it. When I >closed the canopy I was immediately impressed by the "In Your Face" feeling >the canopy imparts. It is literally only inches from your face as I am sure >you know. > >This is the only thing I do not like about the MKIV. Paul said you have a >canopy which fits the IV and offers more headroom. Can you tell me if it is >also further away from the pilots face? > >My thoughts since visiting paul are about moving the front seat and the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >instrument panel rearward about 2 - 3 inches or building the canopy so that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >the buble plexiglass and its frame is further forward. My only thought on this is the potential impact to the center of gravity (moving the seat back). Be sure to carefully examine that aspect before you do it. Ron Lee Long-EZ builder (for life) by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-5 #17060) with SMTP id <01IHYY8UZBYEAH3Z97@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:30:19 EST Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:31:14 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: COZY: Re: Canopy & Aerocanard Parts Organization: AEROCAD INC. Michael De Nigris wrote: > I have Cozy MKIV Plans set #184 and will begin building this fall. I recently > met Paul Burkhardt of Howell, NJ who is about 85% finished. He purchased the > engime mount and cowling from you. > > He graciously allowed me to inspect his airplane and sit in it. When I > closed the canopy I was immediately impressed by the "In Your Face" feeling > the canopy parts. It is literally only inches from your face as I am sure > you know. > > This is the only thing I do not like about the MKIV. Paul said you have a > canopy which fits the IV and offers more headroom. Can you tell me if it is > also further away from the pilots face? Yes, it is 2" wider at the front seat and about 1.50" taller. > My thoughts since visiting paul are about moving the front seat and the > instrument panel rearward about 2 - 3 inches or building the canopy so that > the bubble plexiglass and its frame is further forward. I hope you can tell > me that your canopy design will make all this unnecessary. I would gladly > give up some knots for a less clostrophobic cockpit. We have people moving all sorts of things to fit them selves better. This is what we did on our own airplane. Moving the front seat bulkhead back will give more head and leg room but take some back seat baggage and move the front seat CG a little bit. When I built the Velocity RG it gave you a center point for the front seat then you chose where to install it to fit yourself best. After you weigh the empty aircraft to find it's CG you will need to weigh yourself with the airplane to get a good moment of the front seat to know what your weight will do to the CG. When you said that you are willing to give up a few knots for more room, I can tell you that a cleaner airflow on the fuselage will not lose speed. The largest part of the fuselage is the width of 43" and then to taper smaller to the firewall and then to go larger for the cowling around the engine. This is not streamline. The hour glass was taken out on the AeroCanard top to a gentle taper from the front seat to the cowling thus giving more room! Fairings on the outside of the MkIV were used to more streamline it's fuselage. Moving up the instrument panel is no big deal but make sure the room for all your goodies will still fit. We have CAD drawings for this very thing. Bigger than normal people should also think about moving the rudder pedals a couple of inches forward if their legs are really long. "Custom" I guess, should be my middle name! Just do it safely. We have a customer that is making an AeroCanard wide body that will be 47 to 48" wide from our standard parts. He will be making this mod in a mold so that if all goes as planned it will be a new model sold by us. More to come later on that one. > P.S. I would appreciate any info those of you on the mailing list may offer > on this subject. Thanks Michael J. De Nigris -- AeroCad Inc. Jeff Russell (Check out our web site for Cozy compatible parts and the AeroCanard) phone/ call first for fax 910-961-2238 E-mail: Jeff@aerocad.com web site with NEW pictures under heavy construction: http://www.aerocad.com Composite workshop info: http://www.Sportair.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:06:22 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: CANOPY LATCHES Is there a Canard builder out there who fitted a totally different latching system to that of the Plans Cozy / Long-eze era? I'm talking about the three curved levers and fittings. I've heard some boat shops have nice latches etc. I prefer bolt action fittings but have not come across any of quality yet? May have to make my own! I guess I need to get moving as I'm due to fit the hinges onto the glassed canopy in a day or two. Soon after this step I'll need them. Any other ideas out there? Rego Burger Port Elizabeth RSA ( Rep. South Africa ) cozy Mk 4 # 139 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY LATCHES In a message dated 97-04-23 16:46:46 EDT, burgerr@telkom.co.za (Rego Burger) writes: << Is there a Canard builder out there who fitted a totally different latching system to that of the Plans Cozy / Long-eze era? I'm talking about the three curved levers and fittings. >> Haven't given any thought to the three curved levers, but I'm convinced the outer door is not necessary. Haven't figured details yet, but guy who used an external keylock is inspiring. I'm thinking of keylock on outside which moves a rod internally. Rod locks, unlocks canopy, but is independant of internal latch mechanism. End result will be simple sys that locks externally, but only latches tite if you are inside. Well, it makes sense to me anyway. Tough to describe these things. I think the thin metal latch used in the kit is really hokey. Would be interested in other options. regards -al Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:14:17 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re; COZY:CANOPY LATCHES Re AlWick and "End result will be simple sys that locks externally, but only latches tite if you are inside." Sounds neat, but one problem I have with it is emergency egress. If we stick with what every Canard driver would recognize as the standard canopy opening system, it could be opened from the outside in an emergency. But then, I suppose an emergency crew would open the canopy with a crash axe anyway if it came to that. Just my 2 cents worth. I am sticking with the standard system. It worked well on my Long EZ and it works well on my almost completed MKIV. dd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:30:22 -0400 From: "Steven D. Sharp" Organization: I'm organized - if I can only find it Subject: COZY: Canopy Latches For the possible "unique" canopy latches, try Eberhard Manufacturing Co. I have 3 engineering samples of their "Compact Rotary Slam Latches" (imagine that, hmmm, 3 of them - coincidence?) model number 200-SS. Each latch weighs about 0.11#, suggested max load 100#, receives 3/8" striker, universal mounting, universal mounting, recommended for small hoods, lids, doors, or panels. I have played with one of them and in the locked position it supported my 170#+ (I won't say how much beyond 170# the + is). The latches are a slick little deal and I think they can be incorporated into the canopy release system rather easily. For further info, contact Eberhard at Eberhard Manufacturing Co. 21944 Drake Road Cleveland, OH 44136-6697 (440) 238-9720 FAX (440) 572-2732 For what it's worth. Steve Sharp cozyiii@earthlink.net From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Canopy Latches (fwd) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 9:31:46 EDT Steve Sharp wrote: > Eberhard Manufacturing Co. > 21944 Drake Road > Cleveland, OH 44136-6697 > (440) 238-9720 ^^^^^ (216) > FAX (440) 572-2732 ^^^^^ (216) Note that the area code has apparently changed from 440 to 216. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:17:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: Re:COZY:CANOPY LATCHES In a message dated 97-04-24 03:00:33 EDT, david010@earthlink.net (David Domeier) writes: << "End result will be simple sys that locks externally, but only latches tite if you are inside." Sounds neat, but one problem I have with it is emergency egress. If we stick with what every Canard driver would recognize as the standard canopy opening system, it could be opened from the outside in an emergency. >> Thanks. I think I'll call that "design oversight". Ideally, then I want some external connection to my interior latch. Although, I would imagine were the pilot to be unable to open the latch (due to injury), then the canopy would be unlikely to be intact. Gotta think about that. What have others done to improve that safety catch? -al Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 06:45:45 -0700 From: Jerry Kennel Subject: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals What has been the expierences with the flying Cozy's on the best way to get a good seal along the sides and back of the canopy? I am at that stage and would like to benefit from others knowledge. Jerry Kennel Cozy #241 Painting & Wiring left. Flying this summer??? From: Ken Reiter Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 10:04:07 CDT Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals Hello Lucky Flyers, I am at about the same stage as Jerry. So what is the best seal to use? Ken Reiter Start engine this weekend then install painted wings > What has been the expierences with the flying Cozy's on the best way to get > a good seal along the sides and back of the canopy? I am at that stage and > would like to benefit from others knowledge. > > Jerry Kennel Cozy #241 > Painting & Wiring left. > Flying this summer??? Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:27:00 -0400 From: wilhelmson@scra.org Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals I have tried several things that did not work. I am presently using foam tape. I bought it surplus so I don't have a source. The problem is that anything that presents much resistance makes the canopy impossible to lock down. The foam tape stops air ok if you replace it when it loses it's elasticity. Jack Wilhelmson (Cozy plans #1, N711CZ) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:16:51 -0400 (EDT) From: astrong@dvsdghse.com Subject: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals >To: Alex >From: jrkomni@ptdprolog.net >Date: 25 Apr 97 06:53:34 -0500 >Subject: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals > > >What has been the expierences with the flying Cozy's on the best way to get >a good seal along the sides and back of the canopy? I am at that stage and >would like to benefit from others knowledge. > >Jerry Kennel Cozy #241 >Painting & Wiring left. >Flying this summer?? I have tried many different commercial seals and Jack is right , when cold they are stiff.This is my latest.I use duck tape on the fuselage where i dont want the material to stck,then I carefully lay some masking tape around the edges of the canopy exposing only the parts I want the material to stick.I lay a generous amount of DAP Dow corning brand silicon (White)close the canopy and let cure.After cure carefully remove the masking tape trimming with an x-acto blade to leave a nice sharp edge.The silicon will not harden and appears to seal.I have had this seal on for over a year now and its still flexible.Hope this helps. Alex > > A.Strong Cozy III N306AN astrong@dvsdghse.com STRONG ELECTRIC PITCH TRIM Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:22:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Westlande@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals In a message dated 4/25/97 11:14:25 AM, MISTER@neesnet.com wrote: > You want to put a drip rail > (shaped with urethane and made with a few layers of bid then scoop out > the foam)below this seam! This is in the Mark IV plans, but what is not there is a way to exit this water collected by the rail. As I read it, the water just drips right on the rear cabin floor. Any good ideas on how to exit the stuff AND keep your canopy water/wind tight? -eric Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals I shopped for this at S&F. The best I have seen is used on all Velocity doors. I checked with them at S&F and they will sell the seals to anyone for $1.00 per foot. You will need .4" to .5" gap in order for the round seal to compress properly. Steve Wright NOZE-LIFT Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 14:06:53 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals Jerry Kennel asked: "What has been the expierences with the flying Cozy's on the best way to get a good seal along the sides and back of the canopy? " My experience is that it is hard to get a good seal on the sides. I used some weather stripping that I bought at Home Depot. I used the stuff that is EPDM or something like that. It is supposed to stay flexible when it gets cold. Mine is like a half round shape and it comes in different thicknesses. For the area where the aft end of the canopy meets the turtle back I put duct tape on the canopy part and coated the turtle back seam with micro then closed the canopy, cleaned off the excess and let it cure. I then sanded it to shape afterwards. You want to put a drip rail (shaped with urethane and made with a few layers of bid then scoop out the foam)below this seam! Bob Misterka ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals Author: Jerry Kennel at INTERNET Date: 4/25/97 10:15 AM What has been the expierences with the flying Cozy's on the best way to get a good seal along the sides and back of the canopy? I am at that stage and would like to benefit from others knowledge. Jerry Kennel Cozy #241 Painting & Wiring left. Flying this summer??? Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 15:24:50 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Canopy Weather Seals Eric Westland wrote: " As I read it, the water just drips right on the rear cabin floor. Any good ideas on how to exit the stuff AND keep your canopy water/wind tight?" I closed off the ends of the drip rail with bid. This directs the water to the side longerons. With judicious sloping toward the outside and putting some weather seal forward of this point I am able to direct the water to the outside. Just remember, no matter how hard you try you won't be able to make the thing totally waterproof. My biggest water problem is the nose access hatch. Bob Misterka N342RM Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:55:53 PST Subject: COZY: Cozy: Canopy Latch From: bristow@juno.com (Burke L Bristow) Hello Group, I am not building yet so therefore I usually just absorb the knowledge being passed and then store it for future reference. I have a question/concern that I was wanting to pose to the group though. After looking through the information package and seeing Nat's aircraft this last weekend (I didn't think about this question until I was gone), I began to wonder about the ability of any passengers in the back seat to get the canopy open in the unlikely event that the front two occupants are unconscieous. It appears that it would be awfully hard for any back seat passenger to reach the handle in the front. I am sure that it is a simple solution of just putting a handle in the back as well. The majority of the time, my back seat passengers will be my two kids and I can't imagine not providing them a means of escape if I (or my wife) are unable to open the canopy. Just curious if this is a justified concern and if anybody else has addressed this. Still Dreaming Burke & Kim Bristow bristow@juno.com From: "Chuck Wolcott" Subject: Re: COZY: Cozy: Canopy Latch Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:20:54 -0700 Hi Burke - About the canopy latch.... During the building/finishing process, I know "this builder" that was doing some final adjustments to the latch mechanism prior to flight from the rear seat(s) when the canopy handle latched shut! He used the plans latch mechanism. The guy was able to fit through the canopy bulkhead, between the headrests, and release the latch. I am sure with proper training your kids could accomplish this. The builder is about 5'11" and 180#. I really don't remember if he had to remove the gas shock to fit through, but that is not difficult either. I'm sure there are other designs to accomplish your request and a positive latch. Are you sure you would want the kids in back to be able to open the canopy, independent of a pilot controlled lock? Remember, the canopy _will_ open in flight if not securely latched. Keep dreaming - that's how all of us started! Chuck Wolcott chuckw@qnet.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >I began to wonder about the ability of any passengers in the back seat to >get the canopy open in the unlikely event that the front two occupants >are unconscieous. It appears that it would be awfully hard for any back >seat passenger to reach the handle in the front From: "Krasa-1, Paul" Subject: RE: COZY: Cozy: Canopy Latch Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:03:45 -0400 I know of a builder who trapped himself in the back of his Long EZ, and he was able to wiggle between the canopy and the roll over structure to release the canopy. This builder is 6' tall and 230 lbs. I believe, (opps), He believes that if he can open a Long EZ canopy from the back seat that a kid would surely be able to. There is a simple solution though. Many years ago Debbie Iwatate (Spelling Butchered I'm Sure!!!) put out a supplimental to the Long EZ plans which detailed the modifications she did to her plane. In this there is an alternate latching system for the handle which has an emergency release cable running to the rear seat. Get a hold of a copy of Debbie's supplement and your problem will be solved. Paul Krasa Long EZ 214LP Subject: COZY: Canopy From: gmellen@juno.com (George J Mellen Jr.) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:06:54 EDT ARGHH !! I Just got off the phone with Airplane Plastics. I wish I would have had the cash to buy ahead of time. When I originally priced out the COZY 3 place canopy in late 1994 prices were $295.00 and$150.00 for the side windows. The 1997 prices are $480.00 and $244.00 Is this my only option? George Mellen From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Canopy (fwd) Date: Mon, 19 May 97 11:33:28 EDT George Mellen writes; >ARGHH !! >....... in late 1994 prices were $295.00 and$150.00 for the side >windows. The 1997 prices are $480.00 and $244.00 > >Is this my only option? For the canopy, unless you want to spend an inordinate amount of time learning to free blow plexiglas (tm) in a homebuilt large oven, yes. WRT to the window, we've had some discussions in the past (_check the archives_) regarding drape molding 1/8" plexi (tm). Once you've got the TB made, you can cut your windows from 1/8" sheet, heat them on a cookie sheet in the oven, and then drape mold them over the TB. That's what I did (with 1/16" plexi (tm) for the landing light covers, but my curvatures were a lot more severe. For the gentle curvature of the TB, there should be no problems. The archives have more details. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:37:31 -0400 (EDT) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy In a message dated 97-05-19 11:16:15 EDT, gmellen@juno.com (George J Mellen Jr.) writes: << 1994 prices were $295.00 and$150.00 for the side windows. The 1997 prices are $480.00 and $244.00 Is this my only option? >> I learned early in the game to buy ahead as much as I could. The prices have continued to shyrocket (especially at ken Brock). It seems to me that I read in either Kitplanes or in the mailing list about a way to form the side windows yourself. I think the canopy might involve too much effort/cost for setup to be worthwhile. You might try someone like Jeff Russell or Velocity. Sometimes things can be adapted. I purchased a Velocity main gear from a friend who opted late in the game to go with the retractible gear. It took a little effort to fit it but overall it was pretty straight forward. Dick Finn Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 01:16:45 -0400 From: Rick Roberts <102503.1561@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy Hi everybody, I'm in the process of trying to make a canopy for my King Kozy, If it works (read when) It wouldn't be too hard to run a bunch of standard canopies if a bunch of people want them. I doubt I could charge anywhere near a much for them. But I haven't calculated it yet. Let me know if your interested. Rick Roberts From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 14:26:35 EDT People; I'll put my observation/information first, to get it out of the way, and then ask a question. I spent a couple of hours playing with MATHCAD to try to better understand the gas spring geometry - Mark Beduhn had mentioned [in Sept. 96] that he had lowered the pivot point a bit: After installing the assembly, I decided to lower the bracket (mounted to the co-pilot's headrest) from 8.5" shown on the plans to 5.5". That gives a little less downward pressure when the canopy is closed, and doesn't open it quite as much (easier to reach). I fooled around with the 25.5" dimension, as well as the 8.5" dimension, to try to understand how much opening angle is lost, as well as how much force the spring will put on the canopy when closing it. Obviously, I had to keep the dimensions such that the minimum and maximum dimensions of the gas spring weren't compromised. I found that the lower the pivot point (on the headrest) the better for force (easier to open), but if you move it too far down you have to move the 25.5" dimension further out (so as not to squish the spring) and the canopy will barely open far enough to squeeze in. I also found that minimizing the 25.5" dimension will increase the angle of opening. I guess both of these things are somewhat intuitively obvious, but I wanted to know how much of a change in position would make how much of a difference. I chose to mount it at about 7.5" and 24" - I only lost about 5 degrees of opening angle. Anyway, if anyone has MathCad and is interested in a copy of the file, just let me know and I'll email it to you. I'm sure one could do the same calcs in a spreadsheet, if one remembered the cosine law from geometry class :-). Now the question: OK, so I've got my canopy on - the gas spring makes it go up and down, and I'm looking at the hinges. Right now, the pins can slide in and out easily, and that's a good thing, since I want to be able to take the canopy on and off on a regular basis. However, once this thing is done, I have a nagging suspicion that it would be better for the canopy _NOT_ to be able to come off easily. I scoured the plans and couldn't find anyplace that mentioned what to do to ensure that the hinge pins would stay in place, but were removable so that the canopy could come off. I figured that I could easily squeeze one end of each hinge, but I don't really want to do that to the other end, since the hinge pin would be trapped forever. So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to create a safe canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying aircraft do? -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Epplin_John_A@hpmail1.90.deere.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 14:19:03 -0500 Subject: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question > So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to > create a safe canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying > aircraft do? > > -- > Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com > I have seen these hinges drilled and cotter pinned. Shorten the hinge pin enough that you can drill a small hole 90 deg to and through the pin hole and install a small cotter pin. I know this looks a bit tacky and is a nuisance when cleaning etc. but it works. John Epplin Mk4 #467 by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-7 #17060) with SMTP id <01IK59FHE9KW9GESSI@InfoAve.Net> for marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:52:48 EST Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:52:48 -0500 (EST) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net From: Nick Ugolini Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question A >So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to >create a safe canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying >aircraft do? > Marc, I remember reading in a Canard Pusher a good point. In an emergency a rescue team may not have an axe to break the canopy. The author suggested putting a loop on one end of the pin, and labeling the area "pull pin to remove canopy" or some such thing. Just one of those trivial things that sticks in the brain.... See ya at oshkosh. Reguards, Nick Ugolini unick@mail.charleston.net Varieze N89RS LongEZ N29TM Cozy Mark IV #0264 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:02:08 -0400 From: INFINITY Aerospace Subject: COZY: Re: Hinge Pin Retaining and Removal Hi Marc and All, >OK, so I've got my canopy on - the gas spring makes it go up and= down, and I'm looking at the hinges. Right now, the pins can slide in an= d out easily, and that's a good thing, since I want to be able to take the cano= py on and off on a regular basis. However, once this thing is done, I have = a nagging suspicion that it would be better for the canopy _NOT_to be able = to come off easily. I scoured the plans and couldn't find anyplace that mentioned what to do to ensure that the hinge pins would stay in place, b= ut were removable so that the canopy could come off. I figured that I could= easily squeeze one end of each hinge, but I don't really want to do that = to the other end, since the hinge pin would be trapped forever. So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to create a safe= canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying aircraft do?< We have tried 2 things: drill and safety wire each end of the hinge and pin to keep the pin from sliding out, but then you have a piece= of wire that shows :-( ; OR - tap (thread) each end of the hinge so you= can thread a small allen screw into each end of each hinge, making sure y= ou put lock tite on the allen screw threads - this works very well. The hin= ge pins are shortened just a little to allow for the length of the allen screws (hopefully the hinge length is cut correctly to maximize hinge pin= length in the hinge). Canard hinge pins can be done the same way. But the end of the canard elevator hinge pin must be drilled and tapped (about 0.6" deep) so= a ~6" piece of threaded hinge pin (threaded about 0.5") can be threaded int= o the end of the canard elevator hinge pin once the allen screw is removed = to extract the canards elevator hinge pin out the elevator and out the end o= f the canard. Infinity's Forever, JD Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:12:03 -0400 (EDT) From: DFinn7971@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question In a message dated 97-06-16 14:43:37 EDT, marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com (Marc J. Zeitlin) writes: << So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to create a safe canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying aircraft do? >> Marc, I don't have a flying aircraft yet but that never stopped me from having an opinion. How about cutting the hinge pins long and bending them up at the end. A neater solution might be to squeeze one end and drill a hole for a piece of safewty wire at the other end. Dick Finn Cozy mark IV # 46 DFINN7971@AOL.COM Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:23:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Nigel Field Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question At 02:26 PM 6/16/97 EDT, you wrote: >People; > > > >Now the question: > > >So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to >create a safe canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying >aircraft do? > Marc, The canopy pins on my VE are made from stainless welding rod and are bent into a loop about 1.5 in dia on the forward facing ends. They are cut 2 inch longer than the hinge with the straight end slightly tapered to aid in installation. The loop serves double duty as a safety feature for quick canopy removal if needed, and to prevent sliding back in through the hinge and falling out. There is no other securing method used and they have never worked out or even moved from their installed position with the loop right up against the forward part of each hinge. My Cozy canopy hinges forward at the front so no help there. Nigel Field Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 07:49:34 EST From: "KEN SARGENT" Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question Author: KEN SARGENT at DISNEY-WDW-NSA3 Date: 6/16/97 3:46 PM Mark or everyone, Camloc has a floppy for design applications that is quicker than Mathcad, but probably not as fun. Also, they make air springs with purge valves so you can vary how much force they have, so you can tailor how much force you want. Is Camloc the spring on the plans?. If you or anyone else wants the floppy I'll mail it. Or I'll try to E-mail it if can be e-mailed. Ken Sargent Cozy #555 ken_sargent@wda.disney.com no where near looking at air-springs ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question Author: "Marc J. Zeitlin" at DISNEY-WDW-INTERNET Date: 6/16/97 2:26 PM People; I'll put my observation/information first, to get it out of the way, and then ask a question. I spent a couple of hours play..................................................... So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to create a safe canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying aircraft do? -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:58:57 -0700 From: Ed Neilander Organization: REV-A-SHELF INC. Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > So, has anyone come up with a slick way of dealing with the pins to > create a safe canopy that can be removed? What did you guys with flying > aircraft do? > > -- > Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Marc, On my Starlite the instructions said to silicone all hinge pin ends and after two years of flying they held in place and were quite easy to remove for inspection when needed. Ed Neilander by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-7 #17060) with SMTP id <01IK6OAJW6OY9EZ199@InfoAve.Net> for marcz@an.hp.com; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:08:43 EST Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:08:43 -0500 (EST) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net From: Nick Ugolini Subject: Re: COZY: Ch. 18 - Observations and Hinge question > >Yah, but what keeps it from coming out when you don't want it to? Like >from vibration at 10K ft. ? :-). The loop's a good idea, but I need to >have it safety wired... Having a finger loop at the foward end with a 90 degree bend initally. Build a flox block near the foward end of the hinge with enough clearence so that in an emergency you insert your finger in the loop, and pull it out and clear of the the foward retaining block. This may deform the pin somewhat, (essentially creating a radius on the pin) But it would allow removal of the canopy in an emergency. In normal flight there is no way the pin will deform enough to move foward, and it will not go aft because of the loop. Nick Ugolini unick@mail.charleston.net Varieze N89RS LongEZ N29TM Cozy Mark IV #0264 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Chapter 18 (Another Oaf's Story) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 16:07:56 EDT People; Cozy MKIV - Chapter 18 (Another Oaf's Story) This isn't the story of Another Oaf, but Another story from the same Oaf. Another Airplane Fairy Tale: Once upon a time there was an oaf (same one as from the last installment in early 1996 - accessible on the web at): http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/cozy_mkIV/chapters/chap09_oaf.html who lived in Acton, Massachusetts, and decided to build an airplane. To make a long story short, we'll pick up the story just as the oaf finishes glassing the inside of the canopy/fuselage top (or so he believes!), with just a small intro. The oaf had finished glassing the outside layups (2 BID and 2 UNI) of the canopy/fuselage top, and then collected some scrap wood to build the frame with which to support the canopy while flipping it over to shape and glass the inside. The oaf had read and re-read the sorcerer's spell-book in order to ensure that he cast all his spells according to plan, but apparently he missed something (remember our oaf's puny little brain from "An Oaf's Story")? Anyway, the oaf builds the frame, remarks on the sturdiness of it (to himself, of course - this oaf hangs out alone in the dungeon, mostly) and then proceeds to flip the canopy/fuselage top and meticulously level everything. So the oaf proceeds to shape the foam, blah, blah, blah, and lo and behold, he's finished glassing the inside layup, and thinks it's time to flip the canopy/fuselage top right side up to fit the hinges, etc. So he does. What does the oaf see when he fits the canopy/fuselage top to the fuselage tub? He sees that the front corners of the fuselage have warped down about 1/4" each, and that a lot of excessive space exists under the canopy frame where it should not. "What the #^%$*@&!!!!!!!", the oaf thinks to himself (and to anyone not legally deaf who happened to reside within a 200 foot radius). Once again, the oaf thought and thought with his puny little brain (along with mouthing a few more expletives heretofore unknown to the other inhabitants of his abode). After a couple of minutes, it became obvious to the oaf what he had done incorrectly due to the same witch's spell (the one that had vacationed in Bermuda and Antigua, but had returned just in time to screw up our oaf's well laid plans once again). The sorcerer had shown a picture of the wooden frame in the spell-book, but did not explicitly call out each piece of wood, figuring that most builders were not oafs (oaves? loaf/loaves?). Closer examination of the picture by the oaf revealed a heretofore ignored lower cross-piece on the front support that would have locked the front corners and center together vertically, rather than allowing the center section to sag just that 1/4" (when inverted) that manifested itself as the front corners being too low when right side up. The utility of this cross-piece now made itself clear to the oaf, as the witch had gone windsurfing in the Columbia River Gorge (and taken this new spell with her), leaving the oaf with his puny reasoning powers intact. To fix this calamity, the oaf decided to remove the glass and 1/64" aluminum strip at the front corners of the underside of the canopy/fuselage top, remove foam and glass enough to make the canopy/fuselage top sit perfectly flush on the tub, and then re-glass the aluminum strip in place. This would cause the front fuselage top to be about 3/8" narrow on both sides just aft of F-22, but the oaf would be able to cosmetically fix this with micro and one layer of BID while making the canard cover. The oaf did these steps, and the canopy/fuselage top fit perfectly ever after, with only about 4 - 6 hours of extra work (a mere pittance in the grand scheme of an oaf's existence). Amazingly enough, just like the first oaf's tale, this story has a happy ending but as before if there is a moral here, the oaf does not see it. Once again, why are we not surprised? Maybe the oaf's tendency to succumb to the witch's spells and miss important sections of the sorcerer's spell book can help other builders, since one oaf seems to be more than enough. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Chap. 18 - canopy latching Date: Tue, 8 Jul 97 18:38:50 EDT People; While installing the canopy latching hardware over the past few days, I discovered that I needed to bend the aluminum tubing that connects the threaded rods for the three latches a bit in order to get the threaded fittings to go together - otherwise they would NOT line up. There didn't seem to be any mention of how to do this in the plans, or that it would be necessary to do this. I fitted the straight tubing in place, determined where I'd like it to bend (not critical, as far as I can tell) and then gently bent it over a hammer handle (something round, so as not to put a crinkle in the tube). This was all after cutting to length and installing the threaded rod. Measure twice, bend once (actually, in this case, I bent about four times, adding a bit of bend each time, and slightly moving the bend point to get a more gentle radius). This whole process of installing the angle bracket catches on the canopy is a iterative process (requiring many iterations :-) ) and I found that I needed to install the front one, then install the middle one, then adjust the middle and rear catches, then install the rear one, and then adjust the rear catch. Eventually (after all the bending and adjusting) I got a nice, smooth, system that grabs all three catches at the same time and has no play when compressed. Pretty cool to sit in the seat, unlock the canopy, push up, and have the gas spring open the canopy for you (until the dang temporary bondo holding the headrest onto the shoulder rest breaks and the canopy comes crashing down on your arm with a loud bang :-) ). P.S. - I've updated my web pages for my logbook and chapter 18, if anyone's interested. See: http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/cozy_mkIV/logbook/97_06.html http://www.ultranet.com/~marcz/cozy_mkIV/chapters/chap18.html -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-7 #17060) with SMTP id <01IL09SB1DAU9GG87I@InfoAve.Net> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:37:41 EST Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 20:31:11 -0400 From: Jeff S Russell Subject: Re: COZY: Chap. 18 - canopy latching Organization: AEROCAD INC. Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > While installing the canopy latching hardware over the past few days, I > discovered that I needed to bend the aluminum tubing that connects the > threaded rods for the three latches a bit in order to get the threaded > fittings to go together - otherwise they would NOT line up. Marc, this is true and it's best to make sure that the tube where the safety catch is under the longeron for NO interference. This is the best place for the bend or at least most of it. -- Jeff Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 22:24:05 -0700 From: C Van Hoof Organization: Architect Subject: COZY: Canopy Hi to All, Have just today received my canopy for my MkIV. Have also received Ernie DeGoveia's canopy for the MkIII. The side windows appear exactly the same? Both are MkIV size. Is this correct? Anyway, just for info. When you live in Africa there is a price. Thanks to Rego Burger's efforts we managed to share shipping and we also got a discount from Airplane plastics.(don't forget to ask when you order and order together to get some volume discount) The shipping would have been $700 plus handling, clearance etc, etc,(see Ali Baba & the forty robbers) Rego got this down considerably but the price was a wait - 10 Months. Anyway if ever in Africa, come visit us. Fired up ready to get going once again. Chris #219 Doing the Landing Gear reinforcing in the rear area Ch 09 From: Epplin John A Subject: COZY: Canopy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:20:32 -0500 I am about ready for a canopy. I called Airplane plastics the last two days and they have not returned my call as of yet. Does anyone know of a problem they may be having? If anyone has a standard Cozy canopy they want to sell, I need it soon. I noticed some comment about using a Lancair canopy for more room. I don't need that so if anyone has a Cozy canopy and wants to go to a larger one maybe I can help. Maybe this is not correct, but I installed the control tubes etc and am going to do the armrests and seats next. I figured it is easier to do this with the fuse on its side and it is much easier to handle without the turtleback and center spar attached. I intend to start on the turtle back in a couple weeks and would like to have a canopy to make sure it will mate up correctly. John Epplin Mk4 #467 From: AlWick@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Canopy In a message dated 97-08-28 08:30:34 EDT, EpplinJohnA@JDCORP.deere.com writes: << I figured it is easier to do this with the fuse on its side and it is much easier to handle without the turtleback and center spar attached. I intend to start on the turtle back in a couple weeks and would like to have a canopy to make sure it will mate up correctly. >> It'll mate. Highly flexible and there is extra mat'l for any height mod. Strongly recommend you make turtle frame assy same way I posted last month. Results in very smooth surface, minimum seams. All other Cozy instructions (except brake apparatus) are good, the worst thing you could do is follow Cozy instructions for this item. My opinion. FWIW Have fun! -al Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: rfisher@spacetech.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 4 - Instrument Panel On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, cdenk@ix.netcom.com wrote: >The Cosy Classic top radius's of the canopy are shorter radius than either the MK 3 or 4. >AIrplane Plastics made me a special bubble while I waited. It gives more headset room. When you say "bubble", are you referring to the canopy itself, or did they make a bubble-like protrusion to acommodate your head? Russ Fisher Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: rfisher@spacetech.com Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 4 - Instrument Panel On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, AlWick@aol.com wrote: >I'm 6'2", looks like I DON'T need to raise canopy. I'm surprised. When I sat in Nat's airplane, the top left side of my head was 1/2" away from the canopy. With a headset on, I'll be bumping it. I'm 6'1". >But all you have to do is >make the FWD jig ribs for the turtleback taller. That way you don't get >caught up in unnecessary mods like firewall, engine covers, etc. Leave the >rear turtleback jigs stock. No mods necessary till you get to the very end of >the process. Vance and I talked about that. The idea is to have a smooth, faired line from canopy to cowl. He indicated that I could make the turtleback per plans. Since it is installed as one piece with the canopy, I would just block it up a little higher, sloping down toward the firewall, and glass over the foam blocks. Yes? No? He didn't say anything about making the fwd jigs taller. >I wouldn't make panel taller, would just increase opening at your feet. Would >also require moving lower panel rib up a bit. Not sure of effect on fit of >instruments. The main idea for adding the inch at the top was so that I didn't loose any instrument space. There's not much there to begin with. Thanks for your input. Russ Fisher From: N11TE@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: COZY: Chapter 4 - Instrument Panel Reply to Bill Hixon and Russ Fisher questions: First question was whether I widened my tub. I did not widen the tub, but to gain a little sholder room I moved the longerons out and installed them between the inner and outer skin. The sides now go straight up without a joggle. My airplane cross-section now looks like a "D" laying on its back. However, the Lancair canopy is very flexible and can be adjusted to fit either tub. I chose the Lancair because it has a different shape on the top giving much more room over your head. Needless to say, you must adjust the turtleback jig to flair this new shape to the 1/2 circle shape at the firewall. If you are not comfortable making changes, this is a change which takes some personal inventiveness so I would not recommend it to anyone. I am very pleased with the results as I now have headroom and the front edge of the canopy does not cover part of the instrument panel. Go sit in a Lancair 320 and you can see the difference for yourself. It is not difficult to do but the details would be hard to cover in this forum. If you are really interested, call me (at any reasonable hour) and I'll try to talk you through it. The second question was about my reference to "boxes." I meant radios. And making sure there was room behind the raised instrument panel for the stack of radios that I planned. I found space for all the radios but (initially) found that the back of Wayne Lanza's power panel would have hit the revised canopy when closed. That is why I went to only a 1" increase in heighth for my instrument panel. Tom Ellis N11TE@aol.com (812) 867-2275 Cozy MKIV plans #25 now AeroCanard 540 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: ch. 18 - hardware attachment Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 13:01:21 EDT People; I was staring at all the hardware attached to the canopy and longerons (handles, latches, safety catches, safety catch bolt, etc.) and was thinking about burying the bolt heads or nuts in micro as called out in the plans. I thought that it would be very nice to have as much of this stuff as possible be removable. I enlarged the recesses in the glass and foam so that a nutplate (either straight or corner) would fit, and then pinned each nutplate in place with a couple of long rivets (not driven, just places into the holes). Now, I can insert and remove the bolts for the handles, latches, safety catches and safety catch bolt from the inside with one wrench - they will not be permanently attached when I flox and micro the nutplates in place (with grease on the bolt). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:12:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: ch. 18 - hardware attachment On 09/02/97 13:01:21 you wrote: > >People; > >I was staring at all the hardware attached to the canopy and longerons >(handles, latches, safety catches, safety catch bolt, etc.) and was >thinking about burying the bolt heads or nuts in micro as called out in >the plans. I thought that it would be very nice to have as much of this >stuff as possible be removable. > >I enlarged the recesses in the glass and foam so that a nutplate (either >straight or corner) would fit, and then pinned each nutplate in place >with a couple of long rivets (not driven, just places into the holes). >Now, I can insert and remove the bolts for the handles, latches, safety >catches and safety catch bolt from the inside with one wrench - they will >not be permanently attached when I flox and micro the nutplates in place >(with grease on the bolt). > >-- >Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com > > The bond to the shanks of the buried bolt may prevent loosness, where the unbonded may start with miniscule movement and grow. I haven't heard any complaints on braking or loosening. Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 05:01:18 +0000 From: Robert Eeg Subject: COZY: tape removal I had the same problem and I used WD-40 to soften the tape and a soft plastic scraper. Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:56:29 +0200 From: Rego Burger Subject: COZY: CANOPY-TAPES Help, does anyone know what removes the adhesive of Duct -Tape from a canopy... I used it to keep my protective plastic in place instead of electrical tape.....be warned after a few months the Duct-Tape adhesive migrates from the tape to the canopy?? You don't need this grief! All help welcome. Rego Burger CZ4#139 RSA From: SWrightFLY@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY-TAPES In a message dated 9/9/97 10:03:28 AM, burgerr@telkom.co.za wrote: <<....be warned after a few months the Duct-Tape adhesive migrates from the tape to the canopy?? You don't need this grief!>> I now have this problem on my STAGER-EZ.. What is the best way to get the goo from the tape off?? Steve Wright Wright Aircraft Works LLC From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: CANOPY-TAPES (fwd) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 8:46:58 EDT Rego Burger (and Steve Wright) wrote: >Help, does anyone know what removes the adhesive of Duct -Tape from a >canopy... In the hardware store the other day I saw some solvent that was specifically aimed at removing residue (glue, etc.) from plexiglas. I think Aircraft Spruce and/or Wicks may also carry something along these lines - check in the catalogs in the plexiglas cleaner section. Sorry I can't be more specific - I learned on the Q2 to NEVER use anything other than electrical tape on any area I didn't want the tape to be on permanently. Hope this helps. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:03:15 -0400 From: Tom Teek Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY-TAPES I had duct tape on for many years with the same problem. My friend Neil Hunter clued me in on XYLENE. It worked fine and was safe to use on the LE canopy. For real heavy stuff just soak a rag and let it sit a while. NO Problem. Xylene can be purchased in your favourite hardware store. Tom LE58AT Gear replacement in progress! From: MISTER@neesnet.com Date: Tue, 09 Sep 97 08:29:27 EST Subject: Re[2]: COZY: CANOPY-TAPES Steve Wright asked: "I now have this (duct tape) problem on my STAGER-EZ.. What is the best way to get the goo from the tape off??" Goo Gone and elbow grease should work. For those of you just starting on the canopy, you might consider either using a coat or two of SPRAYLAT as a base for your tape or putting a layer of electrical tape under the duct tape to avoid the goo problem. Bob Misterka N342RM From: AlWick@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY-TAPES In a message dated 97-09-09 06:03:28 EDT, burgerr@telkom.co.za writes: << Help, does anyone know what removes the adhesive of Duct -Tape from a canopy... I used it to keep my protective plastic in place instead of electrical tape.....be warned after a few months the Duct-Tape adhesive migrates from the tape to the canopy?? You don't need this grief! >> I had a builder tell me about his experience. He scratched his canopy before he heard about how effective wd-40 is to remove residue w/o affecting plastic. He tried it and it worked well. He said to let it soak for a while. 2nd hand info FWIW -al (Integralis SMTPRS 2.04) with SMTP id ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:59:27 +0800 From: "Ford, Doug" Subject: RE: COZY: tape removal Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:08:00 +0800 Robert Eeg wrote - >I had the same problem and I used WD-40 to soften the tape >and a soft plastic scraper. My experience is that Eucalyptus Oil is *MUCH* better than WD-40 or any of the other solvents I tried. It is made from the extract from the leaves of the Australian Eucalyptus (Gum) Tree and thereby naturally dissolves the gum or goo on sticky labels or adhesive tapes. It is available at Chemists/ Pharmacists, Hardware stores and maybe even Beauty Salons if yau can't get it anywhere else. It is very cheap here, but I am not sure about overseas. Good Luck. Regards Doug Ford Alcoa of Australia Ltd ACN 004 879 298 From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:35:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: COZY: CANOPY-TAPES (fwd) On 09/09/97 8:46:58 you wrote: > >Rego Burger (and Steve Wright) wrote: > >>Help, does anyone know what removes the adhesive of Duct -Tape from a >>canopy... > >In the hardware store the other day I saw some solvent that was >specifically aimed at removing residue (glue, etc.) from plexiglas. I >think Aircraft Spruce and/or Wicks may also carry something along these >lines - check in the catalogs in the plexiglas cleaner section. Sorry I >can't be more specific - I learned on the Q2 to NEVER use anything other >than electrical tape on any area I didn't want the tape to be on >permanently. Hope this helps. > >-- >Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com > > how about a vegetable oil, or non-abrasive hand cleaner like D&L. Try first on scrap. Search for Rohm & Haas, they may have a home page & 800 number. Or aircraft plastics in Dayton, Oh. Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:22:04 -0400 From: David Domeier Subject: Re: COZY: tape removal Doug, re "My experience is that Eucalyptus Oil is *MUCH* better than WD-40 or any of the other solvents I tried." I spent much of yesterday removing old (4 yrs) duct tape from my canopy and the eucalyptus oil worked great. I bought it over the counter at a local drug store for $5.65 for 2.5 oz and the one bottle was enough stuff to do the job. I also tried some of my wife's Revlon Enamel Nail Polish remover. It too worked very well, although it took a little more rubbing. The nail polish remover is mostly acetate. It had no harmful effect on the plexiglass whatever. It evaporates very quickly and was most usefull in removing the residual oil film of the eucalyptus oil. Thanks for the tip, Doug. 5 dd - MKIV #155 (engine running and in the taxi mode, but much finish work remaining) by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-7 #16063) with SMTP id <01INPLDJ6X9E001RKI@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:36:14 PDT Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:36:36 -0800 From: hrogers@SLAC.Stanford.edu (Howard Rogers) Subject: Re: COZY: tape removal/good news > > I also tried some of my wife's Revlon Enamel Nail Polish remover. = It >too worked very well, although it took a little more rubbing. The nail >polish remover is mostly acetate. It had no harmful effect on the >plexiglass whatever. It evaporates very quickly and was most usefull in >removing the residual oil film of the eucalyptus oil. > > Thanks for the tip, Doug. Once again, I'd like to offer a caution. I have no direct experience with either Revlon Enamel Nail Polish remover or with the Eucalyptus Oil, but I have a fair amount of experience with Plexiglas=AE. Most nail polish remover has acetone in it that will DEFINITELY do a number on your acrylic (as in: dissolve it!). Not sure about acetate, but I know that several solvents are not imediatealy harmful to acrylic, but later it will craze. Alcohol is one major offender, in this regard (don't use alcohol-laced Windex, for example). I would reccommend that you check with the manufacturer before using any solvent on the stuff. Kerosene is approved, and I have used it to remove some residues, in the past. As for removing an oily residue, I would stick to soap and water. It is definitely worth a check with the manufacturer to save a whole canopy from crazing a few months down the road. If anyone comes up with new info, please post it here. If I weren't so strapped for time, I'd check, myself, and post it. On the subject of good news (since people have announced births, etc., I don't think this is too far off-topic). As one or two of you may know, my wife of 11 years took off earlier this year. The Long EZ has been languishing for some time. The good news is that my new girlfriend LOVES flying, and especially the EZ. She drags me out into the garage so we can work on it, and wants to help me finish it! She definitely wants her pilot's license, and is very enthusiastic about that place in Wisconsin I just told her about, where they hold a really big airshow/convention. Somebody pinch me, please! Stand by for eventual wedding announcement (you don't think I'd let this one get away, do you?!!) Cheerfully, --Howard Rogers, A&P 2005148 From: COZYMK4@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: COZY: Canopy trimming Has anyone had to trim the back edge of the canopy where it meets the turtleback, rather than trimming the bottom only? I am scared about cutting off too much plexiglass and so I am doing it only a lttle at a time. So far, the relief areas are pretty big but the BL 0 template is getting closer than it was. Kevin Cozy Mark IV #90 by m12.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D[L01446; Thu, 09 Oct 1997 03:18:24 EDT Subject: COZY: Canopy Bulge From: cozybldr@juno.com (Paul T Stowitts) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 03:18:24 EDT I am in the final stages of the canopy section and I noticed a problem the other evening. The aft edge of the canopy no longer matches the turtleback opening. It has developed "bulges" at the windows with the pilot side being the worse of the two sides. When I purchased my windows from Airplane Plastics, I was offered 1/4" plexi instead of the standard (1/8"?) plexi. I didn't want to wait, they were cheaper and I figured I'd lose some weight but have a quieter cabin. They seem to be a slightly larger radius than the turtleback is and apparently they caused the deformation during the hot summer months. To correct the problem, I cut a small gap in the canopy immediately below the aft pilot side window from its trailing edge forward approximately 8". I then strapped the canopy down level with the turtleback closing the gap and glassed the outside with 2 plies BID and 2 plies UNI (fibers perpendicular to the longerons). I will also glass the inside with 2 plies BID. I'm contemplating glassing the inside aft edge with 2 plies of UNI to keep this from deforming any further. I thought about strapping the canopy down again and using a heat gun to soften the plexi so that it might not apply so much pressure to the frame - any thoughts about that? Has anyone ever heard of, or experienced, a problem like this? I would recommend to anyone who gets 1/4" plexi to add the 2 plies UNI along the aft edge immediately after cutting the canopy loose from the turtleback. Of course, if you get the right stuff first time, you probably won't have the problem:-). Paul Stowitts Cozy Mark IV #200 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:12:18 -0500 From: Bulent Subject: COZY: NACA fresh air inlets Hi All, This weekend I started on the fresh air NACA inlets and did not like at all what I saw in the plans. It was labor intensive and the end product did not look nice at all. So I visited a fellow RV-4 builder and discovered that Vans aircraft sells an excellent complete 2" system with eyeball vents ready to install and complete price of $40.83. All you need is to install it in 4-6 hours and looks great. Per plans you will spend days. Check it out at: HTTP://WWW.VANSAIRCRAFT.COM/SECTIONS/CAT-HEAT.HTM You will need: Inlet and adapter pair: Part#VENT SV-1/2 $7.20 Duct tube 2" 3' length: Part# VENT SV-3 $7.13 Ventilator eyeball 2 pc: Part# VENT SV-5 $13.25 EA BEST REGARDS; BULENT ALIEV CZ-MKIV 954-713-8117 OFF. Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:41:30 -0500 From: Bulent Subject: COZY: NACA Vents Onthe parts list I made amistake: Part #VentSV-1/2 you need 2 sets Bulent From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Canopies (fwd) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 97 9:50:56 EST Norm Balog (an previous mailing list member from WAY back :-) asked me to post this to the list for feedback to him: >UV or not UV? > >I am trying to have a Canopy made from "UV100" acrylic, and have been in >contact with both Ray Poquette (in California) and Jeff Rogers (at >Airplane Plastics in Ohio) for some months now. > >Here's the deal: UV absorbing plastic seems like a pretty good idea to >me and to many others as well. As a practicing physician I've cut out >more than my share of actinic keratoses, basal cell, squamous cell and >malignant melanoma skin lesions; I would like to avoid excessive UV >exposure both by me and my family in my finished Cozy Mk IV. Guy Byars >wrote an article, "Ultraviolet Radiation Hazard," printed in the July >'92 Sport Aviation (EAA) magazine. UV also causes cabin interiors to >fade and age. I figure I'm putting UV blockers on the outside of the >plane, why not block the canopy as well? > >Well, the first issue is finding someone who has the plastic and the >expertise. Ray Poquette was very helpful and informative but when he >said "a Cozy what?" I said never mind. > >Jeff Rogers can get the plastic from his supplier (actually Ray >Poquette), this is 3/16" UF-96, aircraft grade acrylic, and absorbs >pretty much everything below 400 nM (includes UVa and UVb). It is >essentially CLEAR with a slight yellow cast, but you would have to hold >two pieces up to the sun side by side to notice the slight tint. > >THE DEAL IS: Jeff will make a canopy and a set of windows in this >material for the usual price plus $100 (truck freight to your >neighborhood is extra). BUT! He will only do this if he does two sets. >Total cost should be around $$700 ($537 base price, plus $100 for the UV >plastic, plus about $35 for freight). > >I need your help. I am ready to buy this NOW and would like to hear >from someone else in this position. Anyone interested in this material >PLEASE call me if you have any other questions. I have some pretty >crappy FAX copies of the EAA article and some absorption /Transmission >spectra from different types of UV blocking plastic I'd be happy to FAX >over (or discuss if you call Jeff and get them from him or someone's EAA >Sport Aviation Collection). > >I'm home evenings after 7pm EST and can be reached at 301 879-1777 or >through email normbal@erols.com. > >By the way, Jeff says they still have a clear set (windows and canopy) >on the shelves ready for shipping if anyone is interested. Airplane >Plastics (Fox Lite, Inc.) can be reached at 800 233-3699. > >Thanks in advance. > >-Norm -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com From: Gunrider@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:28:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: COZY: Canopies (fwd) I was wondering about applying a coating to my canopy similar to the type put on sunglasses. Have yet to begin this quest - any ideas anyone??? Hugh Farrior puttin' in control syst. From: Gunrider@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:28:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: COZY: Canopies (fwd) I was wondering about applying a coating to my canopy similar to the type put on sunglasses. Have yet to begin this quest - any ideas anyone??? Hugh Farrior puttin' in control syst. From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: UV resistant Primers? (fwd) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 97 10:10:51 EST Stet Elliott wrote: >Hmmm. If it's true that plain glass is opaque to UV, does this also >apply to our plexiglass canopies??? No. plexiglas (tm) acrylic and glass do not absorb the same spectrum, hence Norm Balog's request for people interested in specially coated UV absorbing plexi canopies. Also, plain glass is not completely opaque, but it does prevent transmission of _almost_ all UV. If you leave a couch near a window, it will fade faster than if it's not due to the small amount of long term UV that does leak through the glass. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:26:52 -0800 From: Stetson Elliott Subject: Re: COZY: UV resistant Primers? wilhelmson@scra.org wrote: > Any exterior type paint has UV inhibitors or is not bothered by > UV, In > any case paints with heavy pigmentation are usually opague to UV > as > well as visable light. The need for UV protection is valid but > very > easy to get. This is similar to the UV sunglasses hype. Plain > glass is > opaque to UV. Hmmm. If it's true that plain glass is opaque to UV, does this also apply to our plexiglass canopies??? -- Stet Elliott flyez@earthlink.net Long-EZ N321EF From: "Johnson, Phillip" Subject: COZY: Higher Canopy/Turtleback Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:31:40 -0500 Martin Orro Writes: > BTY, last weekend I saw Chuck Wolcott's MkIV @ Camarillo. Nice job. > I'm 6'5" and long-waisted. The fit with NO cushions was very tight. > I'm going to deepen the tub, and modify the front seat bulkhead > position. My head was up against the canopy. Has anyone used a more > "square" profiled canopy to increase headroom? Also, my left foot was > bent inward by the tub's curvature, does an elongated nose help this? > I'd sure hate making a three seater (one in front only) as suggested by > Nat. Also the King Kozy seems beyond me. I'm 6' 3" 225 lbs and long in the torso. I built my Mk IV with the standard tub but increased the height of the canopy/turtle back. I had Airplane Plastics make me a canopy that was four inches larger in the hoop dimension, I guess you could loosely call it the circumference. When I installed the canopy, I had already made a frame that was more square than the stock design, I was able to attach the new larger canopy to the more square frame/turtleback. The frame was also wider so that the inside of the canopy was flush with the WL23 longhorns. When the canopy was installed, even with the extra four inches, the lower edges were about an inch above the longhorns. There was an overall height increase of approximately two inches. I do not have any cushions installed yet, but with suitable compensation made from some old foam sponge I am able to get a good feel for the pilots position. The position is good, and even when donning a headset, I do not hit the canopy. The problem that you will encounter when you do this modification is to the line to the cowling. I raised the firewall 1.5 inches and made my own cowling. I now have very smooth lines from canopy to the spinner. Phillip Johnson From: Epplin John A Subject: COZY: Turtle-back, canopy. Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:05:38 -0600 Just finishing the armrests and seats, ready for the next adventure. I noticed Nat suggests fitting the wings and main spar before the turtleback and canopy. He usually has good reasons for his suggestions. I wonder if anyone has done this in reverse order. The plus side is once the spar is attached you use a lot of valuable real-estate and more walking around from side to side. What would be the down side of waiting on the spar attachment until all the work on the fuselage that can be done without it in place is finished? Just wondering, I have room to do it either way but would rather not use the space until I really need to. John Epplin Mk4 #467 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Turtle-back, canopy. (fwd) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 9:59:10 EST John Epplin writes: >....... What would be the down side of >waiting on the spar attachment until all the work on the fuselage that >can be done without it in place is finished? This is exactly what I've done in my basement (no room to attache the spar or strakes). I've got the turtleback and canopy done, but the TB isn't attached yet. Seems to work fine, as far as I can tell. The space where the spar goes makes it easier to see inside the fuselage when working on the canopy, as well. So, I don't think there's any downside, at least not yet :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:26:41 +0200 From: Rego and Noleen Burger Organization: R.N.B. Enterprises Subject: Re: COZY: Turtle-back, canopy. The reason is a PRACTICAL one! 1.Spar must go in to line things up! To do this it is easier to lay a long straight edge across the longerons for easy sqauring up. 2.It is easier to make the layups onto the firewall etc with the turtle deck off! TRUST ME! 3.It is easier to build the strakes with the turtle-deck off, as you may wish to turn things upside down from time to time. eg. the layups! 4. Lapping layups onto the longeron (eg. the baggage cutouts) are made easier without the turtle deck on. Simply because you have more space to move around in. 5. The strake "tapes" onto the longeron are better and stranger than doing them after the turtle-deck is on as you can make a L shape bond around the longeron which for me seemed stronger. Please note you can build it which ever way you want... but if you find an easier way to do it, do so! I don't think your work space should over prioritise the structure of your aeroplane. Rather complete all the sub components and install when space is available. I ended up building a shack 4,2m wide 7m deep, to house craft with wing strakes and canard on! What a pleasure. Cost $330-00 ! IN RSA! Rego CZ4#139 RSA by m5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id P{D26327; Sun, 07 Dec 1997 15:13:56 EST Subject: COZY: Inst. Cover / Canopy Gap From: mbeduhn@juno.com (Mark W Beduhn) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 15:13:56 EST Dear Cozy Builders, If you have not painted your Cozy yet, I have a suggestion that you might want to consider. First, a little history. When Vance Atkinson came over to check out my plane, he pointed out that I would probably have problems with the joint between the instrument cover and the front canopy lip. I was a little surprised because I had taken great pains to make that joint very smooth. Vance said that it looks great now, but when it gets cold (at altitude) the canopy will shrink and the canopy lip will raise 1/8" or so, and let in a nice cold draft. Since it was already done, I noted the comment, and hoped my plane wouldn't have that problem...Wrong!!! Now that it has gotten cold outside (even in Arkansas) sure enough, the lip has raised 1/8", and I have a nice cold draft. Also, the rear of the canopy has distorted and doesn't seal as well as it used to. It appears that the drip edge on the turtle back gave that edge good structural support, but since the trailing edge of the canopy is just 1/4" thick, it distorted. So...I have two additional winter projects (in addition to the dozen or so other improvements I want to make). I will use Micro to raise the instrument cover 1/8" higher than the canopy lip, and I will strengthen the trailing edge of the canopy to prevent further distortion. If I had known this while I was building, it would have been easy to prevent these problems (minor as they may be). That is the biggest advantage to this forum, we can warn each other about potential pitfalls and problems. Happy building, and I hope you have a great Christmas (Don't forget that Jesus Christ is the reason for the season). Mark Beduhn Cozy IV N494CZ (55 hours and flying great) From: cdenk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:31:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: COZY: Inst. Cover / Canopy Gap The classic doesn't warp much at all in cold, haven't tried to figure out why. Any thoughts? From: Epplin John A Subject: COZY: Turtleback jig Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:15:14 -0600 Just started building the turtleback jig. One question: Nat says to build a ledge on top of the jig using plywood mating to the top lattice strip. I couldn't find the thickness of the plywood. If I understand everything the flange used to mate to the longerons will be layed up over this ledge so its thickness will determine the height of the overall turtleback. Somewhere he says we need some scraps of 1/4 in ply, I take it this is what for. Anybody know the answer? John epplin Mk4 #467 From: "norm & monda" Subject: Re: COZY: Turtleback jig Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:48:36 -0500 the flange is supposed to be at the top level of the funny looking fixture pieces. btw dont use hot melt glue to hold the foam into the fixtures its silicone based and if not COMPLETELY removed the epoxy dosnt stick to it leaving a region ready to delam. norm (been there done that) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 22:55:36 -0800 From: Stet Elliott Subject: Re: COZY: Inst. Cover / Canopy Gap Mark W Beduhn wrote: > If you have not painted your Cozy yet, I have a suggestion that you > might > want to consider. First, a little history. When Vance Atkinson came > over to check out my plane, he pointed out that I would probably have > problems with the joint between the instrument cover and the front > canopy > lip. I was a little surprised because I had taken great pains to make > > that joint very smooth. Vance said that it looks great now, but when > it > gets cold (at altitude) the canopy will shrink and the canopy lip will > > raise 1/8" or so, and let in a nice cold draft. > It's important when building the canopy to understand the dynamics of this problem. I wish I had understood it, because now I have the same problem. Canopy size plays a part in this, i.e. the a canopy of a tandem will be more affected by temperature changes than a shorter one for a side-by-side design. As an example, at 80 F the canopy on my Long-EZ fits perfectly, but at 20 F it's raised 1/8" in the front and almost 1/4" in the back! The canopy is going to expand and contract with temperature fluctuations, and there isn't anything that you can do about that. When the canopy expands and contracts, it takes the canopy frame along with it. At a temperature less than the temperature at which the canopy frame was built, the contracting canopy will pull the frame up in the front and back. This is bad because the front and rear no longer seal properly, and you get a blast of air under the canopy lip in the front. At a temperature greater than the temperature at which the canopy frame was built, the expanding canopy will push the front and rear down, and raise the middle area under the side canopy rails. This is the better of the two evils. Sure, you have a gap under the side rails, but the front and back are basically where they should be. The governing factor in all this is the temperature of the canopy at the time the frame was built. I built my canopy frame in 80 degree weather, so 80 degrees is the temperature at which my canopy fits perfectly. Anything temp below that and the front and rear of my canopy start to lift. The solution to this problem isn't very difficult. Just cool your canopy bubble to as low a temperature as you can get it before any significant layups on the canopy frame cure. If you put ice in freezer bags and tape them to the canopy during cure, this would later keep the canopy lips from rising until the OAT is below freezing. You'd have some gapping along the side rails in warmer weather, but this is much preferable to the alternative. A friend put wet blankets on his canopy and blew air on them with fans during the canopy frame cure . His canopy doesn't lift significantly in cool weather. This same friend told me to also use this technique, and I thought he was nuts. He wasn't, and I'm sorry now that I didn't heed his advice. I'm now faced with having to wait for a cold day, sand the "hump" out of my canopy rails and reglass the rails. -- Stet Elliott flyez@earthlink.net Long-EZ N321EF