From: George Graham Subject: COZY: System III Paint Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:38:55 GMT Organization: AirSep Corporation from Does anyone have any experience with the water thinner paints from system III. Thank you in advance for your help. George.Graham@airsep.com From: Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 20 May 96 08:16:03 CDT Subject: Re: COZY: System III Paint Hello George and Group, I am creating a Cozy III and have used the System III paint system. The primer is perfect! Never any runs and VERY few pin holes After micro I use a 30% ballons 70% primer for a surfacer - brushed one After sanding surfacer with 120 Wet - just about all is sanded away I spray on the primer After sanding the Primer with 22O Wet - sand alot away I spray on last coat of the Primer After sanding the Primer with 320 Wet I spray on the Color coat After sanding the Color with 600 Wet I spray on the Clear Then Buff The Color coat goes on OK for me (I am NOT a Painter) - however, some builder have reported a crater effect - I have also had it - it seems to come and go. The Clear Coat - I just can not get it to be high gloss out of the gun - I just buff! The plane is not flying yet therefore I have no info on the lasting qualities. I painted at home and if it sticks to the plane as well as to me - I will use it again. Clean-up is with just water, VERY little ordor, VERY low health risk - key to me with children at home. Good Luck, Ken From: Dick_Finn@em.fcnbd.com Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:18:53 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: COZY: System III Paint This is a Mime message, which your current mail reader may not understand. Parts of the message will appear as text. To process the remainder, you will need to use a Mime compatible mail reader. Contact your vendor for details. --IMA.Boundary.975106238 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I am getting the impression that painting is a more complicated process then I originally imagined. At out EAA meeting last week a feelow spent two hours talking about sprayers. In his opinion the turbine type (which I just bought last year) is obsolete and a new generation of HVLP sprayers are now being used by body shops and auto manufacturers. Anyway, I have had good luck on several spray applications (not the plane yet) with my Croy. I even painted the garage at the lake cabin with fantastic results. Two questions: 1. Have any of you had problems with the Croy on your plane? 2. What is a clear coat? Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DICK.FIN@FNB.SPRINT.COM ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: COZY: System III Paint Author: owner-cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com at INTERNET Date: 5/20/96 9:44 AM The Clear Coat - I just can not get it to be high gloss out of the gun - I just buff! Good Luck, Ken --IMA.Boundary.975106238-- Date: Mon, 20 May 96 13:56:17 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re[3]: COZY: System III Paint Dick Finn wrote: >>>>Two questions: 1.Have any of you had problems with the Croy on your plane? 2.What is a clear coat?<<<< 1. I tried using my Croix turbine HVLP setup when painting my plane but finally gave up when I wasn't getting results I found acceptable. The biggest problem I had (mind you I am not an experienced painter) was that I couldn't seem to get the paint to flow out properly after it was applied. It seemed to have a lot of orange peel. I started off using the System III water based system but gave it up when I didn't get good results. The System III primer I applied seemed to go on quite rough and didn't want to flow out. I don't know why. I ended up doing a lot of primer sanding. I finally went with the recommendation of a local auto paint supplier and used a single stage PPG paint called "Concept". First I tried the Croix. The paint is a polyurethane. I was doing this in the heat of the summer with temps in the high 80's. I used a slow reducer and was still having problems with the stuff not smoothing out after it was applied. I suspect that the problem with the Croix was the elevated outlet air temp and the fairly low vaporization with the low pressure. I was not happy with the results. I used two lengths of hose and coiled one up in a bucket of cold water to keep the air temps down. I finally decided to use a conventional hi pressure spray unit. The PPG customer service rep told me that I should have 40-45 psi "at the gun" to properly vaporize the paint. This meant a tank pressure of 100 psi was needed to offset the drop in the line and the quick connects. Even at that pressure, the flown out wasn't great. And boy oh boy did I get a lot of paint droplets in the air. The biggest problem with this setup was water condensation in the air supply. I'd suggest doing a lot of practice on unimportant surfaces to perfect your technique before you go for the real thing. 2. Clear coat is a clear finish paint that comprises the finish coat on a lot of paint systems. These are usually categorized as two stage paint systems. You spray a primer, sand it then shoot a color base coat. This is followed by a clear coat finish which gives the high gloss you are looking for. PPG Concept is a single stage system which gives you the high gloss with a single paint application over the primer. The real pain in all of these paint systems is the cost. The Concept was about $30 a qt. for the paint but then you had to buy hardener at $40 a quart and reducer at $20 a gallon. It get's very expensive very quickly. Then there is the toxic nature of the polyurethane paint systems to be concerned about. There is certainly a lot to learn and the techniques were difficult for me to master. I don't think I really did master them ultimately. My final results were acceptable but certainly not show quality. I guess the thing will still fly the same however. Hope this helps. Bob Misterka N342RM ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re[2]: COZY: System III Paint Author: Dick_Finn@em.fcnbd.com at INTERNET Date: 5/20/96 10:30 AM This is a Mime message, which your current mail reader may not understand. Parts of the message will appear as text. To process the remainder, you will need to use a Mime compatible mail reader. Contact your vendor for details. --IMA.Boundary.975106238 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I am getting the impression that painting is a more complicated process then I originally imagined. At out EAA meeting last week a feelow spent two hours talking about sprayers. In his opinion the turbine type (which I just bought last year) is obsolete and a new generation of HVLP sprayers are now being used by body shops and auto manufacturers. Anyway, I have had good luck on several spray applications (not the plane yet) with my Croy. I even painted the garage at the lake cabin with fantastic results. Two questions: 1. Have any of you had problems with the Croy on your plane? 2. What is a clear coat? Dick Finn Cozy Mark IV #46 DICK.FIN@FNB.SPRINT.COM ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: COZY: System III Paint Author: owner-cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com at INTERNET Date: 5/20/96 9:44 AM The Clear Coat - I just can not get it to be high gloss out of the gun - I just buff! Good Luck, Ken --IMA.Boundary.975106238-- From: Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 20 May 96 14:38:06 CDT Subject: Re: Re[2]: COZY: System III Paint Hello Dick, I have a Croix paint system - for me it works very well - for a non-Painter. Very little over spray at all in the paint booth aka garage. On the System III paint system you have the option to put their clear coat on top of their color coat. The color coat is like a satin gloss; while the clear coat is a very high gloss (wet) finish look. Ken Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 21:00:05 -0800 From: Eric_Westland@msvl.wednet.edu (Eric Westland) Organization: Marysville School Dist. Subject: COZY: West Filling? A couple of questions for those of you that have been there. I am starting to do some of the rough fairing with west and quartz micro balloons. Prior to trowling on the dry filler, I paint on some pure epoxy, then squeegee it off and then wipe off what that misses with a paper towel The stuff sticks good, but when I go back to re-apply dry micro over cured micro filler, does one need to repaint pure epoxy again or will it stick on it's own? Also, when I mix in the balloons, it takes some agressive mixing in the end. This may sound dumb, but can one crush the ballons during mixing and end up with a denser (heavier) fill? Thanks in advance for the help, Eric -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Date: 07 Jul 96 22:32:49 EDT From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Micro Spheres Hi to All, >Eric Westland writes:< >The stuff sticks good, but when I go back to re-apply dry micro over cured micro filler, does one need to repaint pure epoxy again or will it stick on it's own?< No, but it should be well sanded, even if it has been peel plied. During the Voyager project, they discovered and reported that even though a piece is peel plied, sanding it creates an even better bond. Peel plied parts sand easier, too. >Also, when I mix in the balloons, it takes some agressive mixing in the end. This may sound dumb, but can one crush the micro ballons during mixing and end up with a denser (heavier) fill?< The glass micro ballons (micro spheres) DO break VERY easily just stirring, thus requiring more, making the slurry or dry micro much heavier. We have used the plastic micro balloons that were talked about earlier in this forum. They will withstand 2000 lbs. of compression and 2000 lbs. of tension. We did several tests comparing glass and plastic micro balloons, and found that the different consistancies of slurry and dry micro made with the plastic micro balloons is 33 to 50% lighter than the glass micro balloons. They only come in 50 lb. boxes. HTH. Infinity's Forever, JD INFINITY Aerospace P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX 72124.347@compuserve.com Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:44:41 -0400 From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: COZY: Paint Anyone know of an insulative coating that can be applied under finish coat? I would like to paint my plane with a non-white color. When I worked in the aluminum casting field we relied on paints with differing heat transfer properties to control the solidification of Alum. We were dealing with temps around 1300f, and the various paints had highly significant effects. Perhaps there is an insulative paint and reflective? Thanks -al From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Paint (fwd) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 96 13:32:12 EDT Al Wick wrote: >Anyone know of an insulative coating that can be applied under finish coat? I >would like to paint my plane with a non-white color. Wouldn't we all :-). >....... We >were dealing with temps around 1300f, and the various paints had highly >significant effects. At the ~100 F to ~200 F surface temperatures we're talking about for the surface of the aircraft, the proportion of heat transfer performed by conduction (from the top surface, through the filler, to the glass/epoxy layer) vs. radiation is substantially higher than at 1300 F, where most of the heat would be transferred via radiation. I can imagine that at 1300 F an insulative radiation reflective paint might have a huge effect upon heat transfer, but I'd be surprised if that were the case at 200 F. With conduction predominating, a thin layer of paint will have almost no effect on the steady state temperature of the glass/epoxy layer, even if it's heat transfer coefficient is very low. Anybody with more heat transfer knowledge out there, I'd love to be proved wrong - give me black and red anyday :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:14:04 -0700 (MST) From: Jeff Burhans Subject: Re: COZY: Paint (fwd) Perhaps you people could clarify for me - I notice that almost all the Canard aircraft are white, but I've heard of blue and yellow canards as well...Is heat/sun damage to the composite and foam such a risk? Or, if your aircraft were painted a darker color, would it be sufficient to keep it covered if it weren't flying...? Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to share your knowledge and opinions with me. I'm learning a tremendous amount before I even buy my plans! * * *RION * From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: COZY: Paint (fwd) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 9:59:03 EDT Jeff Burhans writes: > Perhaps you people could clarify for me - I notice that almost all >the Canard aircraft are white, but I've heard of blue and yellow canards >as well...Is heat/sun damage to the composite and foam such a risk? The problem is that the epoxy becomes softer at temperatures above the "Glass Transition Temperature". For the epoxies we use, after post-curing, these run anywhere between 150 F and 200 F, depending on the epoxy (and who you believe, if you can even get the manufacturer to tell you anything). There are a lot of planes out there that have never been post-cured (or get post-cured by sitting in the hot sun in Arizona :-) ), and some of these (but not all, by any means), you will notice, have droopy wings. The danger, if any, is that as the structural components change their shape when the epoxy softens, the incidence angles, washout, and levels that you worked so hard to maintain during construction may have just flown out the window. The danger of catastrophic failure is infinitesimally small. There is a chart in the COZY plans (and I'm sure in the V.E. and L.E. plans) of surface temperature in the 110 F sun (I think) for different color paints. White paint is the coolest, and still runs in the 150 F range, if I remember correctly. This is why all composite planes are white, or at least a very light color. >......... Or, if >your aircraft were painted a darker color, would it be sufficient to keep >it covered if it weren't flying...? Well, probably, and there's a guy who painted his Lancair deep red and does just this (keeps it in a hanger and covered when outside). Lot more work though, and you've got to get that cover on quick when you land. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:00:14 -0400 From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: COZY: non-white paint Let me rephrase my original query: I KNOW (well, let's pretend I do) that it's possible to reduce heat transfer by the 10 to 15% needed to allow us to paint our planes a color other than white. So who among us is resourceful enough to find the solution? I did a query for "auto paint insulation" and found some interesting stuff, but I only get to use internet for a few minutes each day. -al From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: non-white paint (fwd) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 16:30:58 EDT Al Wick wrote: >I KNOW (well, let's pretend I do) that it's possible to reduce heat transfer >by the 10 to 15% needed to allow us to paint our planes a color other than >white. Don't be so sure :-). >So who among us is resourceful enough to find the solution? Or to prove you can't. >I did a query for "auto paint insulation" and found some interesting stuff, >but I only get to use internet for a few minutes each day. I couldn't find _anything_ useful with this search on Alta Vista. Your challenge did prompt me to spend a 1/2 hour or so at lunchtime doing the following calculations: Heat Flux = Flux from Radiation + Flux from conduction Q 4 4 k or: --- = s ( T - T ) F + --- ( T - T ) A 1 2 l 1 2 For our situation (remember, temperatures must be absolute for radiation calculations, and we'll use SI units [meters, watts, degrees K]): F = 1 (This is the "View Factor" for parallel planes that are essentially next to each other) T = 345 K (~162 F) (Temperature of outer skin in the sun) 1 T = 320 K (~117 F) (Temperature of inside of foam wing, and 2 ambient temperature in _very_ hot desert) -8 Watts s = 5.67 x 10 -------- (Boltzmann's constant for radiation of a 2 4 black body) m K Watts m k = 0.07 ------- (Thermal conductivity of the best insulating 2 material I could find in Mark's Handbook of m K M.E.) -4 l = 10 m (0.1 mm / 0.004" - This is the thickness of the insulating paint/coating Al is proposing) If we plug these #'s in to the equation, we get: From From Total Radiation Conduction Q Watts Watts Watts --- = 2,000 ----- + 17,500 ------- = 19,500 ------- A 2 2 2 m m m First of all, at the temperatures we're discussing, we can see that the effect from Radiation is approximately 10% of the total heat flux. However, we've got a major problem. This is that the total heat flux from the sun is only: Q Watts --- = 1,000 ----- A 2 m and since all our heat is coming from the sun, we can see that we _cannot_ sustain this temperature difference over this thickness. Since we know that the surface temperatures _do_ in fact get up to 345 K, we've got to solve for the temperature difference that will give us our known heat flux and external temperature. Let's even assume that we have some perfect radiation barrier, so that we'll _only_ have to deal with conduction. Q l or: T - T = (--- ---) 1 2 A k So: or: T - T = 1.4 K (or 2.5 F) 1 2 This tells us that without any radiative transfer at all, a 0.1 mm thick layer of pure carbon black will only support a temperature difference of about 1.5 C (3 F) across it with a 1 kW heat flux. Make the layer thicker, or find a material that insulates better than carbon black, and you can do better. In order to get the surface temperature difference up to the 22 K (40 F) you'd need if you wanted to paint your plane maroon, or some other dark color, you'd either need to have a 1.6 mm layer of pure carbon black (who knows how you'd _ever_ get that to stick :-), or you'd have to find some material that only transferred heat at 1/16 the rate of carbon black. Good luck with your search, Al :-). As before, I'd be happy to be shown where I've screwed up here in these calculations, or for someone to tell us how to do this with some "out of the box" thinking. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 14:25:51 -0700 From: Chris van Hoof Organization: C van Hoof - Architect Subject: COZY: Paint Hi to all, About paint you'll get little knowledge here but relating to motercars, here's my limited experience... A local well know banking group was about to obtain a new fleet of cars.... someone in management had little to do and started with his own valuation of several motor vehicles (all 4 seater sedans of various sizes) ....my office was nearby so had to endure the optimism of the test....all were placed in the parking lot in the sun with a min/max temp gauge in the centre as near as possible between the two front seats... Result white car - white roof - cream interior temp 45C black car - Vinyl top - grey interior temp 52C The vinyl top was a mat type cover glued over the metal roof (1970's) The result could be translated at that time as 10% This test was redone by a magazine called TECHNICAR at the time and they came up with more or less the same figures but they used a larger variety of vehicles. cvh #219 with Cozy entering chapter 8 cvh@iafrica.com Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:23:43 -0400 From: Wschertz@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Paint Al Wick wrote: Anyone know of an insulative coating that can be applied under finish coat? Marc Z answered ....no Marc's answer is basically correct, here is a more detailed explanation. The reason that the paint on the hot aluminum castings had an effect is that you were affecting how -fast- the item cooled, but had no effect on the eventual temperature (i.e. the castings still cooled off, just a little slower). With your airplane, sitting in the sun, having a slight insulative layer could -slow up- how hot the epoxy composite gets, but will have little effect on the final temperature. So if the plane sits in the sun for an extended period of time, it will get just as hot in the epoxy as if the "insulative paint" were not there. The physical parameters (of the paint) that affect the temperature (primarily) are: The absorptivity of the paint "A" (black approaches 1.0, white can be lower ~0.1) The reflectivity of the paint "R" (white is good) The emissivity of the paint "E" (how well the paint radiates the energy away) Other factors are the wind (convective heat loss), and the ambient temperature For a "normal" paint, A = E = 1-R over all light wavelengths. [There are selective surfaces that have been designed where the A is high in the visible, and E is low in the infrared, but at each wavelength, A = E = 1-R. These surfaces are designed for solar collectors to get them hotter, not to keep them cool.] What composite airplane owners would like is a color that has high R (reflective) with a correspondingly low A. The easiest choice available is WHITE. If one is ****-bent on a colored plane, make some test sandwiches of epoxy/fiberglass over foam (to duplicate the structure that you are making), embed a thermocouple junction in the fiberglass (not just sitting on the top, but bonded into the skin, say between two layers), and put it out in the sun painted different colors. Hope this helps Bill Schertz From: "Kerry Lamb" Subject: Re: COZY: non-white paint (fwd) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:48:39 -0500 Marc makes an excellent point. Although somewhat less scientific my empirical testing some years ago gave similar results. Dark sailboat deck (red with thin white stripe), white sailboat deck (with thin light blue stripe) both left to sit in sun into early afternoon. Apply sailer's back side, insulated by only a pair of cut off jeans - ouch! The boat with the red deck got a coat of white paint applied over the gelcoat. Less scientific, but educational in a way I will never forget. While I won't make a habit of sitting on the wings of my airplane on a hot day, I also won't be worrying about critical surfaces being damaged by the kind of heat we see on a hot August afternoon Kerry Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:30:11 -0400 From: AlWick@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Paint In a message dated 96-10-09 22:33:49 EDT, you write: << If one is ****-bent on a colored plane, make some test sandwiches of epoxy/fiberglass over foam (to duplicate the structure that you are making), embed a thermocouple junction in the fiberglass (not just sitting on the top, but bonded into the skin, say between two layers), and put it out in the sun painted different colors. >> Bill and Marc. appreciate the explanation of theory. For what it's worth, I included the 1300f alum info so the reader could realize I was not comparing apples to apples. My life experience has taught me one valuable lesson many times. Listen to the theories, but never make decisions from them. As a result, I place a great deal of value in this idea of embedding thermocouples and testing. Used to have access to pc that would log 20+ thermocouple info, no longer available. How about redefining 'non-white' paint as yellow? Or 1/8" dark strip separated by 1" white? If white paint works, how far is it below the failure threshold? 1%? 5%? 10%? If yellow is 7% (arbitrary value) better at absorbing heat, then how much do I have to affect heat transfer to still be below threshold? I suppose worst case is aircraft sitting on ground. Does that big heat sink 3 ft below wing offer help? Anyway, I'm not saying "Paint your plane black". I'd just really like to hear some suggestions related to heat transfer. Sure would be nice to get some temperature data. Thanks for the input. incidently, "auto paint insulation" was a yahoo query. Later -al Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 15:26:20 EST From: "KEN SARGENT" Subject: Re: COZY: Paint There are some tricks that can be done to give the impression that your plane is not white. The grand prize winner (homebuilt) did not paint his white, it is a very light beige. Also, if you have a -very- thin coating of a transparent paint over a white base coat, you can get an optical effect of color without as much temperature rise as if the paint were solid pigmented. The concept is to have an essentially transparent colored film, then a white coating under the coating. Light goes through the transparent coating, and reflects off the white coating rather than being absorbed. If the coating only absorbs 5% of the light, the heat input to the wing will only be 10% higher than a plain white coating (5% on the way in, 5% on the way out). The question is can you get a clear color (i.e. tint) that will give you the effect you want. Another option is to paint many small dots of color, leaving white between the dots. IF you cover only 5-7% of the area, you will only increase the energy input by that amount. Might give you some color effect. To test samples in the laboratory, you would need an integrating-sphere-spectrophotometer, and measure the absorptivity over the wavelength range from infra-red to ultraviolet, then integrate the response to get a value for the absorptivity. A better (cheaper) way is to make test panels and see how hot they get. I don't know the range of a simple indoor outdoor thermometer (radio shack), but that type of probe could handle at least some of the lower temperature excursions. (might be destroyed with a black coating). Jeff Russell (Aerocanard) had a very interesting decal set that was put on his plane. the decals were partially transparent to help reduce the amount of adsorption. He may be able to shed some light on how much warmer the surface became after the application of the decals. Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:32:20 -0700 From: Chris van Hoof Organization: C van Hoof - Architect Subject: COZY: Paint&Epoxy2 Hi all, This is the second time this goes out - think the service provider got a glitz in the system... anyway I added some while the opportunity presented itself. My knowledge is little, but what I (think I) have I'll share. Of course this may only confuse the original questions, while adding some of my own. Speaking to some learned fellows the other day regarding Epoxy's (I'm substituting on my cozy due to costs) the info that came thru' in this was that the Epoxy system is normally selected on various criteria during the design stage..amongst which is eventual/actual operating temperature... here the empirical type rule seems to be that the difference between the wet Tg temp and the operating temp is 50F, (hope this means more to you than to me :-)) and the information can be checked in REF MIL 17E (or F or later edition still). So, the paint/heat protection required would then also be part of the Epoxy system used, and also, the higher your postcure temperature - the less likely that the operating temperatures will "deform" your A/C in the heat on the ramp. This is then followed with an observation: aruond here is a KR2 painted with a darkish grey metallic top colours and the bottom pitch black, at the airshows he attends he immediately installs his shadenet cover over the plane (must be the only guy with a portable hangar). On close inspection however some delamination is taking place on the wings, small patches none bigger than 1"x 2" most smaller. This could be caused by a lot of factors, note however that none of the other KR's have this problem that I know of. Also don't know which Epoxy system was used. A problem I have is that I have never been able to obtain the Specification figures from Hexcell (USA) on Epolite 2427 or any other (USA) system. If anyone has these spec's on Epolite 2427, I would be gratefull if you could pass this on to me. On the eMail system or fax 27 11 462 1876 My Cozy will follow the light colour route - would it matter if some metallic was used in the final coat? By metalic I mean something sparkly in order to obtain a "pearl" colour, info/advice anyone? Thanks for everyone's input on all matters - I've learned a lot from this group! chris with #219 entering chapter 8 cvh@iafrica.com Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:14:00 -0400 (EDT) From: mahan@digital.net (Fred I. Mahan) Subject: Re: COZY: Paint&Epoxy2 Chris said: light color route - would it matter if some metallic was used in the final coat? By metallic I mean something sparkly in order to obtain a "pearl" colour Chris, at airshows I've seen Long-EZ's painted with light pearlescent colors with no evident ill effects. Also, my hangar mate painted his Long-EZ Cub Yellow, with no apparent ill effects. Yes, his yellow wings do get hotter than my white ones in the sun (we both used Epolite). Rutan's rule of thumb was that if you can't keep your hand on the hot surface for at least three seconds, then the surface gets too hot for foam/epoxy. But, naturally, he insisted that everyone paint their airplanes white. And, to be safe, why not just paint them and be done with it? You can do a lot towards dressing up your airplane with colored graphics on the fuselage and winglet sides, which, being vertical, generally get midday sunlight only at an angle. Fred in Florida Long-EZ N86LE mahan@digital.net Carpe Diem Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 11:10:59 -0700 From: Michael Antares Subject: Re: COZY: Paint&Epoxy2 I might add that Nemesis has a very attractive opalescent (pearl) finish. We talked to the crew last year at the Reno Air Races and their reply was that the finish added quite a few pounds of extra weight to the plane. It requires a metallic base coat and clear coats but it is so beautiful that it is tempting to give it a try--perhaps on some test samples first. Michael 6077 Old Redwood Highway Penngrove CA 94951 707.664.1171 Cozy#413 Finished through chap 14 except chap 13. Chaps 16 & 24 mostly finished. Now on chap 19, one wing finished. Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 15:53:43 -0500 From: KSPREUER@aol.com Subject: COZY: Cozy-Colored Paint Hi Ya All, It's been along time since I've had the pleasure of reading and posting on this group. I thought I'd toss in an Idea I have on colored Cozys. I think I'll put color on the non-horizontal surfaces, like fuselage sides and bottom and wing bottoms, and Winglets. The though here is that they would not be subject to the normal incidence of the solar radiation and would not be subject to sagging if they did get too close to the Tg. I guess this could be tested in a similar manner as the fiberglass sandwiches discussed earlier but turned at vertical angles. Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:09:32 -0500 From: Jim Hocut Subject: COZY: Finishing Tip Now that I've had to start doing a bit of finishing (and sanding, and sanding, and sanding), I remembered a little tip I heard at Oshkosh that is easily overlooked and makes good sense. Instead of merely mixing up dry micro (or whatever) until it feels right, actually measure it out (either by volume or weight) so that you get a consistent ratio every time. If you have different consistencies of micro, sandpaper will take a bigger bite out of the softer material, and you'll end up taking longer to get the desired finish (Same as contouring the fuselage, sandpaper wanted to take a bigger bite out of the "Clark" foam than the blue foam). Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com