Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:15:18 -0600 From: Scott Mandel Subject: Chap 16 Control Systems & Other Metal Parts Hi Guys, For those of you not happy with Brock, I may have found another source for metal parts. Frank Bibbee told me about a company in Washington state called WeldTech. He said that he purchased all the control system parts less the tubing (bought from Wicks) from WeldTech. They sell a set of metal bearings that do away with the phenolic system. I haven't contacted them yet this morning, but I'll keep everyone posted on what happens. If you want to call yourself here's the number: WeldTech (509) 946-3269 ___________________________________________________________ / \\|// |---(o)---| \ | (o o) o/o\o Chap 9 | \_o00o~(_)~o00o_____________ | / Scott L. Mandel \ Email: mandel@esy.com | | 6813 Pendrige Drive | Voice: 1-214-205-8762 | | Plano, Tx. 75024 | Fax: 1-214-205-6012 | \___________________________/_______________________________/ Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:53:47 -0600 From: Scott Mandel Subject: Chap 16 Control Systems Update: Weldtech 1925 Terminal Drive Richland, Washington 99352 PH (509) 946-3269 They build the engine mount for the Cozy MKIV and the torque tube bearings. The bearings are $225 and include the bearings, bearings bracket, and a five inch tube that runs inside the bearing. I'm pretty sure this means you'll still have to buy a good number of parts from Brock. I'm not sure if this only saves you buying the $2 phenolic. Can anyone give me an answer that has used the WeldTech product to what else is needed? Here's a list of what's in the plans: Part Part Quantity No. Name --------------------------------------- CS-1 Inserts (10) CS-1A Inserts (4) CS-17 Spacers (2) MKCS 122/124 Belhorn (2) (1Rt & 1Lt) CS-127 Brackets (4) CS-128 Belcrank with bearing (2) CS-131 Spacers (2) CS-181 Inserts (4) CS-201 Bushings (8) ___________________________________________________________ / \\|// |---(o)---| \ | (o o) o/o\o Chap 9 | \_o00o~(_)~o00o_____________ | / Scott L. Mandel \ Email: mandel@esy.com | | 6813 Pendrige Drive | Voice: 1-214-205-8762 | | Plano, Tx. 75024 | Fax: 1-214-205-6012 | \___________________________/_______________________________/ Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:03:41 -0700 From: Pilot@sisna.com (Dave Chapman) Subject: Re: Chap 16 Control Systems(for less $$$) >Update: > Weldtech > They build the engine mount for the Cozy MKIV and the torque tube >bearings. The bearings are $225 and include the bearings, bearings >bracket, and a five inch tube that runs inside the bearing. I'm >pretty sure this means you'll still have to buy a good number of >parts from Brock. I'm not sure if this only saves you buying the $2 >phenolic. Can anyone give me an answer that has used the WeldTech >product to what else is needed? Well, this is the expensive way to have roller bearings in your control system...... For the frugal method, go to a bearing supply store and you can buy roller bearings (about $1.25 a piece!) that fit on the steel tubing in your control system. Then sand the outside of the bearings with your dremel and flox them in place of the phenolic bearings and you have a smooth operating control system that will not develop slop over time. Be sure to have the control system fully installed when the flox is curing so the bearings are straight. Not bad for about a 40th the cost! (actually less if you deduct the cost of the phenolic and use plywood) fly safe, Dave Chapman (Pilot@sisna.com) "This is not a sport, not a business, USHGA #5742 not an ego outlet,but a spiritual calling to Park City, Utah set one's soul free by flight...." (801) 647-0319 Cozy 3 on gear, with the engine on, in other words, 80% done and 80% to go... **************************************************************************** Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:42:02 -0400 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Apparently-To: cozy_builders@hpwarhw.an.hp.com on the Ch16 Control systems this weekend. One of the things I do not want to use is the phenolic bearings. My experience with this material in the past is that it wears very fast. I'm considering using ball bearings for the control systems. Has anyone had a experience using something other than the phenolic stuff? Marc Parmelee N425CZ From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Bearings? Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 21:22:52 EDT Marc Parmalee wrote: >............... One of the >things I do not want to use is the phenolic bearings. My experience with >this material in the past is that it wears very fast. I'm considering using >ball bearings for the control systems. Has anyone had a experience using >something other than the phenolic stuff? Ball bearings seem like overkill (not to mention being expensive). Rick Roberts had some spherical rod-end type bearings in his control system when I visited, but even that seems like overkill as well. I haven't tried this yet, but it seems as though a plastic bearing material (duh!) like nylon or delrin would work a lot better than the phenolic. Delrin probably better than nylon as it absorbs less water. There are companies that sell plastic bearings - I haven't researched it yet as I haven't gotten anywhere near chapter 16. Just some thoughts - these plastic bearing materials are more than adequate for the task. Phenolic was never meant to be a bearing - don't know why it would have been chosen as such. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 21:37:38 -0400 From: Jim Hocut Subject: RE: Bearings An A&P friend of mine who's building a Velocity has made several berings like this out of teflon. Looks pretty simple if you have a lathe. Jim Hocut jhocut@mindspring.com Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:14:10 -0400 From: Nigel Field Subject: Re: Control Bearings At 04:42 PM 4/15/96 -0400, Marc Parmelee wrote: >on the Ch16 Control systems this weekend. One of the >things I do not want to use is the phenolic bearings. My experience with >this material in the past is that it wears very fast. I'm considering using >ball bearings for the control systems. Has anyone had a experience using >something other than the phenolic stuff? > > Marc, On my aileron torque rods I used self aligning sperical bearings made by Ringball part # "B 10 L" about $9.00 each available at any good bearing supplier. Machined up alluminum top hat shaped cups to hold them to the phenolic plates shown in the plans with 3 10-32 allen head machine screws. This was discussed some months ago so you might check the archives, but if I remember correctly the bearing mentioned was a mil spec part costing about $45.00 so I went with the industrial equivalent mentioned above. Works great in the basement but haven't flown it yet. BTW my VE has phenolic bearings on the stick end of the torque rod with 950 hours on them and they are OK, but the LE guys report early wear on the aileron bearings thus the change. Good luck, Nigel Field Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:08:20 -0400 From: PBurkha238@aol.com Subject: Re: Bearings? Cozy folks, concerning the bearings (which just seems to always come up now and again) I used a bearing setup that was shown in the CSA newsletter , probably a couple years back now. It used two thrust bearings along with a roller bearing(that fits inside the phoenlic block, you drill it oversize). the thrust bearings have roller bearings so the whole system is very smooth. on the back seat bearing block just use the same roller bearings, no thrust here. When it comes to the wing root bearing I used a stainless steel bearing with a 5/8 hole. the bearing is large-1/2 thick(I could have gone with a low carbon steel bearing(smaller), however I was concerned with the contact between the two metals could cause some rusting if I didnt keep on top of it(since you must sand /polish it down for a slip fit). I made a 1/8 plate with a hole in it for the torque tube, and glassed it in place(nutplates installed and matched drilled with the installed bearing block which fits on top of it. I had the bearing installed at a local machine shop. the system works well and I believe that you must use a "ball" type bearing in this area.( or a flexable plastic one might do the job too) Once you have the system installed one can see that the torque tube move in and out slightly, but it also has an unusual inward "bind" as the crank moves forward. the bearing above removes any bind up , The ball just rotates a little as the crank moves forward. Paul Burkhardt Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:04:10 -0400 From: wilhelmson@scra.org Subject: Re: Bearings? Marc: I replied to the other Marc before I read your message. I just got back from Sun and Fun and had 78 messages to read. I used TFE TEFLON in place of the phenolic. The plans are a carry over from the Long EZE days. You are correct about phenolic. It is not good bearing material. You are also correct about ball bearings being overkill (not to mention heavy). TFE TEFLON is machinable, selflubricating, and gives a very desirable control feel. Mine have worked well over 500 hrs. Teflon comes in two types TFE and FEP. FEP is a low temp moldable product. TFE is machinable and available from most plastic suppliers in round solid bars. From: Ken Reiter Date: Mon, 30 Dec 96 15:24:08 CST Subject: COZY: Control Stick Grip Hello Group I am at the point of what grip to place on the control sticks. I would like to get input from the group. I have looked at the ski shops nothing to hot there :) . Thank You, Ken Reiter Dallas Tx Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:50:56 -0500 From: Paul Burkhardt Subject: COZY: Re: control stick grip I am at the point of what grip to place on the control sticks. I used the ones made by Menzimer Aircraft componets the company sells Mac servos also. Their around 90.00 each but have neoprene grips and the option of using several switch combos. I'm using one switch for the electric speed brake,a nd one for the auto pilot disconnect relay, and of course there is the ptt switch. there is also the optional servo switches for trim accy. Paul Burkhardt Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:21:45 -0500 From: INFINITY Aerospace <72124.347@compuserve.com> Subject: COZY: Control Stick Grip Hi to All, >Ken Reiter wrote< >I am at the point of what grip to place on the control sticks. I would like to get input from the group. I have looked at the ski shops nothing to hot there :) .< Hi Ken, Check out my Web Page to see my right and left handed Stick Grips - see below for Web Page address. They are customizable, and I have the only left handed grip in the world (that I know of). Infinity's Forever, EAA Member EAA Technical Counselor JD EAA Flight Advisor AOPA Member Test Pilot James D. Newman, President LCDR F-14 USNR INFINITY Aerospace Mailing Address: P. O. Box 12275 El Cajon, CA 92022 Shipping Address: 1750 Joe Crosson Drive, D-2 El Cajon, CA 92020 (619) 448-5103 PH & FAX 72124.347@compuserve.com OR INFINITY_Aerospace@compuserve.com Home Page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace Date: Tue, 31 Dec 96 08:36:08 EST From: MISTER@neesnet.com Subject: Re: COZY: Control Stick Grip Ken Reiter asked "I am at the point of what grip to place on the control sticks" Those fancy grips are nice, but in many cases are really overkill for most of our applications. They are also expensive! I used some urethane molded grips that Wag Aero sells. They have a nice fit and feel. They come in a right and left hand model. Note that these appear to be similar to the unit that Wicks shows on P. 177 of their 1996 catalog. It looks like Wicks only has the right hand one though. I had to install the PTT switches in them by carefully drilling and reaming out a hole in the top to accept a Radio Shack momentary switch. They worked out fine. My $.02 Bob Misterka N342RM