Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 08:25:00 PST From: Brian DeFord Subject: Chap 11 - What is "Hot stuff" ? A quick question to the group - In chapter 11 when installing the NC-2's into the torque tube, the plans say to use "Hot Stuff (the thick variety)" to seal the NC-2's and prevent epoxy from wicking into the hinge holes. I have never heard of "Hot stuff". Can someone fill me in? It appears it is some type of liquid metal sealant - if so, are other sealants acceptable? Any suggestions? Brian DeFord, Cozy MK-IV #309 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Chap 11 - What is "Hot stuff" ? (fwd) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 11:49:57 EST Brian DeFord writes: >....... I have never heard of "Hot >stuff". Can someone fill me in? It's a thick, gap filling, cyano-acrylate adhesive. It's used a lot in model building. Any hobby store will carry it. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:37:03 -0500 From: Nigel.Field@HQPSB.SSC.ssc-asc.x400.gc.ca (Field, Nigel (1416)) Subject: Hot Stuff Brian DeFord, Cozy MK-IV #309 writes: > I have never heard of "Hot stuff". Can someone fill me in? It appears it is some type of liquid metal sealant - if so, are other sealants acceptable? Any suggestions?> Brian, Hot Stuff is a type of cyanoacrylic adhesive used by modelers for making fast joints. Any hobby shop will sell it. Its similar to other types commonly sold as super glue or crazy glue. Hot stuff has a thickener added to make it better at crack filling. It works best on porous materials such as balsa wood as it cures in seconds often with a puff of smoke by reaction to small amounts of H2O in the air or on the material being glued . On metal it will take several minutes to cure. You can also use Locktight Red which is quite similar. It has a tremendous affinity for protein (read flesh) which is porous and moist so dont glue yourself together. Nigel Field Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:38:22 -0500 From: CheckPilot@aol.com Subject: Re: Chap 11 - What is "Hot stuff" ? Brian: Hot Stuff is a cyanoacralate (if I spelled it right). Commonly used in model airplane construction. It may also be known as Zap or a variety of other commercial names, a common name for this group is also Crazy Glue. Take it from a 20+ year model airplane builder. It will stick almost anything to anything else (including fingers, clothes, tables, small children, etc.). One caution, I know that it will eat polystyrene foam. I am not sure what it will do to the various foams in the airplane (I am still in the "trying to start mode" since Jan. of 87). Jim Hann Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:38:47 -0500 From: JHocut@aol.com Subject: Re: Chap 11 - What is "Hot stuff" ? >In chapter 11 when installing the NC-2's into the torque tube, the plans >say to use "Hot Stuff (the thick variety)" to seal the NC-2's and prevent >epoxy from wicking into the hinge holes. I have never heard of "Hot >stuff". Can someone fill me in? It appears it is some type of liquid >metal sealant - if so, are other sealants acceptable? Any suggestions? I may be off base here, but Home Depot and several other builder supply type stores sell a foam sealant called "Great Stuff". It is "squirted" into an area to be sealed, and expands to fill up whatever gap or opening exists. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same product, but I have a hunch we are. Jim Cozy IV # 448 From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Re: Chap 11 - What is "Hot stuff" ? (fwd) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 9:08:58 EST Jim Hocut replies: >>say to use "Hot Stuff (the thick variety)" ........ >I may be off base here, but Home Depot and several other builder supply >type stores sell a foam sealant called "Great Stuff". It is "squirted" into >an area to be sealed, and expands to fill up whatever gap or opening exists. >I'm not sure if we're talking about the same product, but I have a hunch we >are. Nope. The "Great Stuff" sounds like a "pour foam" type insulation product, and isn't really an adhesive. The "Hot Stuff" cyanoacrylate is a completely different animal, as stated in other replies. Sorry, Jim, but you're welcome to the goat behind door #3 :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 06:22:10 -0800 From: brimmer@ix.netcom.com (Kenneth Brimmer ) Subject: Hot Stuff - Lower Winglets I have a 3 place COZY and my plans called for the use of micro to glue the blocks of foam together. I later heard that using HotStuff to do this glueing was much better as the sanding would be much easier and the hot wire will pass right through the hot stuff. Do not inhale the fumes when hot wiring as they are poisonous (but there should be very litte fumes). I wish I had used the Hot Stuff more than I did. Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:38:40 -0500 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Re: Chap 11 - What is "Hot stuff" ? In a message dated 96-01-25 06:23:10 EST, Brian wrote: > Hot Stuff is a cyanoacralate (if I spelled it right). Commonly used in >model airplane construction. It may also be known as Zap or a variety of >other commercial names, a common name for this group is also Crazy Glue. Brian is right. Hot Stuff is a brand name of super glue most commonly found in hobby shops. Don't get hung up on the name. Any super glue will do. The advantage of buying the stuff at a hobby shop is that you can get a variety of types. I have a bottle of thin, thick, and slow on hand, and from time to time, had the need to use each (although the thick variety sees the most use). Also pick up a bottle of accellerator. It is a spray that when squirted on wet super glue, will set it up almost instantly. Real handy for jigging winglets to wing, etc. Both the accelerator and the super glues will attack blue foam. Seems to have no affect on PVC. Stet Elliott Perpetual Long-EZ builder From: "Kevin Russert Walsh" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:09:38 +0000 Subject: Re: Chap 11 - What is "Hot stuff" ? > Both the accelerator and the super glues will attack blue foam. Seems to > have no affect on PVC. Buy Hot Stuff UFO and it won't atack foam. I use it for models all the time. UFO stand for User friendly Oderless. It doesn't give off that eye bothering smell, and it glues even white styrofoam with no problems. Kevin R. Walsh Mechanical Engineer Intelligent Automation Systems 149 Sidney Street Cambridge, MA 02139 TEL 617.354.3830 FAX 617.547.9727 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 08:16:01 est From: "Larry Schuler" Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Chap 5 Really? Nat indicates using hot melt in several places such as landing gear bulkhead alignment, then removing it. Later, these same areas get a number of additional layups. Has anyone had problems with temporary uses like this long term? Larry Schuler MKIV-#500 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: COZY: Chap 5 Author: Michael Antares at INTERNET Date: 7/29/96 8:13 PM At 12:19 PM 7/29/96 est, you wrote: > Thanks, I don't think hot-melt is good anywere permanent.... I have > fixed too many chairs that someone did with hot-melt glue to be > comfortable with it for ANYTHING long term. > > Larry > I just want to clarify--what I meant was that I am concerned with contamination from the hot melt glue. There is a possibility that epoxies will not adhere properly to a surface that has had hot melt adhesive on it, even if the hot melt has been "removed". Regards, Michael From: Paul.Krasa-1@pp.ksc.nasa.gov (Krasa, Paul) Organization: Kennedy Space Center, FL Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:41:39 -0400 Subject: Re[2]: COZY: Chap 5 I havn't had any problem, but a friend used hot glue to attach a part in the engine compartment. When the engine got hot the glue melted and the part fell off. No damage except for the melted glue on the engine. What a mess, and boy did it stink. Paul Krasa Long EZ 214LP !---*---! From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Hot Melt Glue Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 17:32:03 EDT Larry Schuler writes: > ....... Nat indicates using hot melt in several places such as > landing gear bulkhead alignment, then removing it. Later, these same > areas get a number of additional layups. > > Has anyone had problems with temporary uses like this long term? I have used hot melt extensively both on foam and on cured glass, and have not had any problems with later adhesion, as long as I have carefully scraped off the glue and sanded the area with 36 grit. I don't think the hot melt bonds chemically with the surface, or infiltrates into any pores. It can be a lot more convenient than the 5-min. epoxy. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:54:45 -0700 From: Michael Antares Subject: COZY: Hot melt Marc, do you feel that hot melt as a generic class is safe? I have always been careful not to use it on surfaces that were going to have further processing (which means just about everything!), but I never had a factual reason just my convervative nature. Are there different kinds of hot melt with different chemical compositions? Could some of them be OK and others not OK? Your comments would be appreciated. Michael 6077 Old Redwood Highway Penngrove CA 94951 707.664.1171 Cozy#413 Finished through chap 14 except chap 13. Currently starting chap 19. From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: COZY: Hot melt (fwd) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 18:36:10 EDT Michael Antares asks: >Marc, do you feel that hot melt as a generic class is safe? I am by _no_ means an expert on hot-melt glues. I assume (without any evidence to back this up other than by looking at the glue sticks) that the hot-melt glues are some sort of thermoplastic elastomer. This just means that they're rubbery, and can be melted over and over. The adhesion would be purely mechanical, not chemical, and should not leave a residue. Actually, I've found that it's sometimes easier to remove 100% of the hot-melt than it is to remove 100% of the 5-min. or bondo. >.............. Are there different kinds of hot melt >with different chemical compositions? I've seen harder and softer ones, and ones that melt at higher and lower temperatures, but the basic composition should be the same. >.............. Could some of them be OK and others >not OK? Anything's possible. I just use the "standard" glue available in the hardware store, try to keep it off of structural areas, but if I do get it there, scrape it off with a sharp chisel and then sand the area. Like I said, I've never had any problem with adhesion, but I haven't exactly killed myself looking, either. I tend to use it on foam, mostly, like to hold down antenna wires in conduits, or to glue the foam to the table for jigging. >........ Your comments would be appreciated. Yeah, well, hopefully someone who understands these adhesives better than I do can chime in here. My guess is that you're being overly conservative, but that's better than the opposite :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:57:03 -0400 From: EWestland@aol.com Subject: Re: COZY: Hot Melt Glue > Larry Schuler writes: > > > ....... Nat indicates using hot melt in several places such as > > landing gear bulkhead alignment, then removing it. Later, these > same > areas get a number of additional layups. > > Has > anyone had problems with temporary uses like this long term? > > I have used hot melt extensively both on foam and on cured glass, and > have not had any problems with later adhesion, as long as I have > carefully scraped off the glue and sanded the area with 36 grit. I > don't think the hot melt bonds chemically with the surface, or > infiltrates into any pores. It can be a lot more convenient than the > 5-min. epoxy. > > -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Don't know if this has been discussed as my mail has been all screwed up, but Black and Decker makes a dual temp glue gun that is worth the extra $3. The low setting is great for foam/glass and the high for when you really want it to stick and/or flow out thin. They also make special dual temp glue sticks, but I have found the cheap ones work well most of the time for what I am doing. -eric Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:41:53 -0700 From: "Steven D. Sharp" Subject: Re: COZY: Hot melt (fwd) Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > > Michael Antares asks: > > >Marc, do you feel that hot melt as a generic class is safe? > Marc: Like you I am no expert on hot melt glues. However, after extensive use of it in constructing my COZY 3 place I can offer some pointers: 1. Make sure the area the hot melt was applied to is THOROUGHLY cleaned & sanded w/ 36 grit prior to any layups. 2. Try to limit the use to securing foam only (tacking) 3. By all means DO NOT LET THE HOT GLUE GET ON YOUR THUMB NAIL IT HURTS FOR DAYS!!!!!!! 4. When removing the hot melt after cooling, quick jerks with a knife blade under the edge works about the best. Also, possible chilling the hot melt with ice may help when popping it loose from the surface. Most of all - use good old common sense - if in doubt - don't. When gluing large sections of foam together (large surface areas) try using 3M 77 Spray Adhesive (use it like contact cement). WHen hot wiring wings the hot wire will pass through the adhesive rather easily. That's all - where do I send my 5 cents?? Steve Sharp Perpetual COZY builder cozyiii@earthlink.net :~) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:14:54 -0400 From: william l kleb Organization: NASA Langley Research Center Subject: COZY: hot melt glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------31DF237C2F1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit about a month or so ago we had a brief discussion on the use of hot melt glue during construction. one conclusion was as expected: use it only to tack foam together or for holding temporary jigs in place. however, there was some concern voiced as to whether the hot melt glue would somehow contaminate a surface so that later layups would be adversely effected. some even refrained from using hot melt glue at all--no doubt an inconvenience. in reviewing chapter six, the first-edition plans indirectly answer this question by instructing one to use hot melt glue several times: p2, last paragraph; p3, second paragraph; and p8, second column, first paragraph. furthermore, as near as i can tell, in all of these locations where the temporary jig blocks are held in place by hot melt glue, future, important, layups will eventually be made. so, in conclusion, it seems that the plans advocate the use of hot melt glue for temporary jigging in places which will eventually have additional layups. coupling this with the ubiquitous, sanding-with-36-grit-and-vacuum-prior-to-layup mantra, it seems reasonable. --------------31DF237C2F1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename=".sigeaa" --- bill kleb (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) 72 bellanca 7gcbc 9! cz4 -> aerocanard --------------31DF237C2F1C--