(1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA07308; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:37:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:37:27 -0500 From: SidLloyd@aol.com Subject: Re: Cozy MK-IV's >Haven't heard of them. Are you referring to the "turtle deck", the canopy >area, or the front top section of the fuselage? I got the impression from >the plans that "Feather Lite" was the "approved" vendor for the "turtle >deck". OK, here's the inside scoop. Nat promotes the CozyIV as being totally plans built. Well, it really isn't. From the "approved" vendors you can get lots of pre-molded parts including turtledeck, plexiglass, cowling, nose strut, main gear, etc and Featherlite also sells pre-cut foam for strakes and canard. Dennis Oelmann is a well known CozyIV builder endorsed by Nat who will build per-plans parts. Jeff Russell (AeroCad) was also originally endorsed by Nat (he built an original Cozy) to buy pre-molded parts from. He made pre-molded strakes and molded main spar, wing spars, and quick build wing and canard kits (based on the same quick-build techniques that Velocity uses as he built two Velocitys). His nose strut and main struts cost the same as Featherlite, but he does the torsional layups. I don't know if you've gotten anything from Featherlite, but they aren't that great. Their quality leaves something to be desired. Jeff's work is excellent. Then Jeff committed his big sin (in Nat's eyes). He developed a molded fuselage top that goes from F0 to the spinner including carbon cowlings. The problem was that it no longer looked like a Cozy MkIV. He widened out the rear and has the sides curving straight up giving much better head room to the rear passengers. This allows the use of a wrap-aroung or full bubble canopy at the builder's choice. While this is retrofitable to a MkIV tub (that's what I'm doing), it is better if you make a wider tub in the rear. Nat didn't like this at all and although Jeff pays Nat a royalty on every part he sells, Nat insisted that Jeff call "his" airplane something differrent. So, if you widen the fuselage in the rear and use Jeff's top, technically it's supposed to be called an AeroCanard. Jeff now has molded fuselage tubs as well. And in a new development which will make Nat happy, Jeff will have a molded standard Mk IV tub and a standard Mk IV fuselage top. I'm using a lot of Jeff's stuff in my Cozy. I spent a week at his facility in North Carolina building my wings. I brought back wings, strakes, fuselage top, and main spar. In total, I've got about 4 years into my Cozy, 2.5 of which have been spent building. Marriage, moving, and other stuff have taken up the rest of the time. You can contact Jeff at (910) 961-2238. I highly recommend his stuff. In building, as you know, it's time versus money. I really like his wing and canard kits with the molded spars. You don't need all those jigs and having to worry about wing twist. Sid Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 15:28:20 EDT Subject: Re: mat'l spreadsheet Lee; >I noticed in your logbook that you had made up a material spreadsheet >for the Mk IV. Could I get a copy of it from you? I had considered >doing this at one time myself but never got around to it. Actually, I >did a little spreadsheet on my 100lx for the first order, but if you've >already done the whole material list, that would be much more useful. Well, I could get you the spreadsheet, but I'm not sure how useful it would be. There's a lot of listings of comparative costs between Wicks, A.S.S., and Alexanders for the tools, expendables, and the first couple of chapters, but after that, I just make the assumption that I'd buy the kits from Wicks, so the entries just say "wicks - chapter 8". If you still want it to look at, let me know and I'll bring it in from home. I don't use it much at this point, other than to see what vendors I was planning on buying other stuff from and for keeping track of projected costs. I should probably update it. I've updated the chapter kit lists in my Wicks catalog so that I can just order the kit list, and put any changes on the P.O. I don't spell out every part. Now, if I was really cool, I'd put the whole damn part list into 1-2-3, and have OLE links into the various AMI-PRO order forms for each vendor, and have macros which asked which chapter I wanted to get, and automatically generate order forms for all the necessary vendors. Maybe someday..... >.......... I thought about the >difficulty of laying up 16 narrow individual pieces and opted to do the >large wasteful method instead. The width of the BID cloth was just >barely enough, but it worked. On the seat, the BID wasn't wide enough >so I had to overlap two pieces. Is this how you've been doing it? You've got it. Waste the glass - it's a lot cheaper than your time, even at the going rate of $0.02 / hr. and the overlaps look like crap. I don't like the way the seat looks, but it'll have cushions on it, and I'll micro the joints when I do the shoulder supports. >............ Also >what amount of overlap due you use with BID cloth? I know that UNI >cloth can be butted together without overlap if there's not enough >width. While Nat doesn't say, I remember from the Q2 instructions that 1" - 2" of overlap is a good range for BID. You're just trying to get the epoxy matrix to transfer the stress between the layers of glass. Theoretically, I'll bet 1/8" would be adequate, but you can't control the stuff that closely. -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: mat'l spreadsheet Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 16:45:15 MDT Hi Marc, > Well, I could get you the spreadsheet, but I'm not sure how useful it would > be. There's a lot of listings of comparative costs between Wicks, A.S.S., > and Alexanders for the tools, expendables, and the first couple of > chapters, but after that, I just make the assumption that I'd buy the kits > from Wicks, so the entries just say "wicks - chapter 8". If you still want > it to look at, let me know and I'll bring it in from home. I don't use it > much at this point, other than to see what vendors I was planning on buying > other stuff from and for keeping track of projected costs. I should > probably update it. I'd still like a copy of it, if you don't mind. I don't really care as to the degree of finish it has. I've only purchased the materials for the chapter 4 and was wondering if there was any discount to doing it by chapter. I knew that Wicks did material lists by chapter but my Wicks catalog is getting old so I really can't compare prices. The other guys (alexander and a.c. spruce) do big kits which kind of defeats the purpose of a plans-built plane unless you're going to build it all at one time (like you :-). Did you notice that Wicks had better prices or was it a matter of convenience? > Now, if I was really cool, I'd put the whole damn part list into 1-2-3, and > have OLE links into the various AMI-PRO order forms for each vendor, and > have macros which asked which chapter I wanted to get, and automatically > generate order forms for all the necessary vendors. Maybe someday..... Wow! You'd have to be able walk on water or else take a long hiatus from building to do something like that. Thanks for the answers to my seemingly endless stream of questions. Lee Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 9:31:40 EDT Subject: Re: mat'l spreadsheet Lee; >I'd still like a copy of it, if you don't mind. I don't really care as >to the degree of finish it has. I'll get it from home and let you ftp it next week. >........................... I've only purchased the materials for >the chapter 4 and was wondering if there was any discount to doing it by >chapter. Not that I know of. >........ I knew that Wicks did material lists by chapter but my Wicks >catalog is getting old so I really can't compare prices. The other guys >(alexander and a.c. spruce) do big kits which kind of defeats the >purpose of a plans-built plane unless you're going to build it all at >one time (like you :-). Ha ha ha. I wish. I think Alexanders will produce a chapter kit list for you if you specifically request one - I think Michael Antares got one from them, but I don't know the relative prices. A.A. DOES give discounts on their kits, but their prices start out a bit higher, so it probably evens out. For me, the shipping charges from ACS are substantially higher than from Wicks (which are high enough, already). >...................... Did you notice that Wicks had better prices or >was it a matter of convenience? Convenience, mostly. I'ts a lot easier to order one line item rather than 23. The spreadsheet compared prices for the first few chapters - Wicks was a bit cheaper, and I didn't bother doing an exhaustive analysis of the rest of the chapters. I did look at the big stuff - landing gear, etc. and Wicks seemed marginally cheaper. >> Now, if I was really cool, I'd put the whole damn part list into 1-2-3, and >> have OLE links into the various AMI-PRO order forms for each vendor, and >> have macros which asked which chapter I wanted to get, and automatically >> generate order forms for all the necessary vendors. Maybe someday..... > >Wow! You'd have to be able walk on water or else take a long hiatus >from building to do something like that. That's about it, and I'd rather build. >Thanks for the answers to my seemingly endless stream of questions. Not at all. -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 07:34:50 PDT From: "Michael Antares" Subject: Aircraft Spruce Marc Since I've heard nothing but BAD about Aircraft Spruce, it will be interesting what your results are by purchasing from them. So far I haven't had the nerve to even though they are the closest to me. Wicks has given such good service it is hard to be tempted away from them. A small item which others may already be aware of (but I wasn't) is that Alexander has decimal tape measures. I tried all over the area here, with several large hardware and tool supply stores, to no avail. Strange that they're not more common. Michael Michael Antares Software/Hardware Systems Engineering mantares@crl.com Santa Rosa, California From: markt@inetnebr.com (Mark J Turner) Subject: Cost Spreadsheet Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 09:41:22 -0500 (CDT) Marc: Can you possibly make your cost spreadsheet available on your Web page?? I would like to take a look at it, I have considered doing the same for A.S vs Wicks vs Alexander... Could save some of us newbies some time re-doing things... Thanks... Mark... Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:50:57 EDT Subject: Re: Cost Spreadsheet Mark: > > Can you possibly make your cost spreadsheet available on your Web page?? >I would like to take a look at it, I have considered doing the same for A.S >vs Wicks vs Alexander... Could save some of us newbies some time re-doing >things... Will do. Maybe by next week. It's pretty raw - you'll want to check a lot of what's going on. I've given it to Lee D. already, but I never meant it for public use. Anyway, buyer beware, and you get what you pay for :-). -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 15:10:25 -0400 From: SidLloyd@aol.com Subject: Supply houses I've purchased from all three and here's my experience: Aircraft Spruce: Good prices, good selection, OK to poor service Wick's: OK prices, good selection, excellent service Alexander Airplane: OK prices, OK selection, excellent service and a real commitment to the homebuilder movement AA is putting on seminars and developing new products for homebuilders. If you haven't bought their 45 degree BID yet (in yardage and tape widths) do so. You no longer have to cut everything on the 45 degree and waste all those little triangles of cloth. They also have some neat e-glass roving for spar caps with a colored release thread so you can find the thing. Sid Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 15:38:47 EDT Subject: Supply houses Sid writes: >I've purchased from all three and here's my experience: >Aircraft Spruce: Good prices, good selection, OK to poor service >Wick's: OK prices, good selection, excellent service >Alexander Airplane: OK prices, OK selection, excellent service and a real > commitment to the homebuilder movement I'll second all these comments. > ........................... If >you haven't bought their 45 degree BID yet (in yardage and tape widths) do >so. You no longer have to cut everything on the 45 degree and waste all >those little triangles of cloth. Figures I'd hear this after buying all the BID for chapters 8,10,11 in the normal configuration. I didn't notice this in their latest catalog, but it sounds EXCELLENT! I'm sick of all these little triangles (and I'm still on the fuselage). >................. They also have some neat e-glass roving for >spar caps with a colored release thread so you can find the thing. The 3" tape I got (from WICKS) for the canard spar cap had the same thing. The manufacturer must have changed to it. (I assume all these guys get their materials from a small number of manufacturers). -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 14:00:33 MDT Michael wrote: > Since I've heard nothing but BAD about Aircraft Spruce, it will be > interesting what your results are by purchasing from them. So far I haven't > had the nerve to even though they are the closest to me. Wicks has given > such good service it is hard to be tempted away from them. > > A small item which others may already be aware of (but I wasn't) is that > Alexander has decimal tape measures. I tried all over the area here, with > several large hardware and tool supply stores, to no avail. Strange that > they're not more common. Aircraft Spruce and Wicks also carry decimal tapes. If Alexander has them, then it's a new addition, as they are nowhere to be found in the '94 catalog. (I also tried without success to find this item in the hardware stores.) I've ordered parts from Aircraft Spruce, Alexander, and Wicks for the past 6 years and have never had a bad experience with any of them. It's a quirk of human behavior that when an individual perceives that he was wronged, he feels compelled to share it with everyone. I forget the exact ratio, but a bad experience gets about 15 times as much word-of-mouth advertising as does good experience. (A regular experience, that is, when you order the parts, they ship them, they are all correct, etc. gets no word-of-mouth advertising.) So, when you hear someone moaning about how they were screwed by some supplier, you have to multiply by .067 before storing it away in order to keep the world in the proper perspective. Lee Devlin Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 16:25:02 est From: "Phillip Johnson" Subject: Supply Houses I have always had a good experience with Wick's but they do not supply everything. Those people building with auto conversions require Stainless tube and bends for the exhaust and engine mounts, Wicks could not supply but AS could. The friendly ness of Wicks has always been good but AS I find poor. Alexander Aircraft I dealt with at the beginning of the project in Sept 1991 and although offered a section one kit of parts (AA were the best price), as did the other suppliers, they were missing many parts and much had to be on back order. The whole kit eventually came but, being a Canadian, this caused many boarder crossings to handle the international shipping aspects. This tarnished their image in my view. They were always very fair and if I said that something was missing they always came good. I think that at that time they were relatively new in the business and had not got their act together at that point. I am about to try them again and they definitely lead the other suppliers in the composite materials they carry. I notice from the e-mail that they supply the BID on the 45 bias which is a welcome change. Builders should also be aware that they supply a stitched fabric in 45 degree bi-directional and 45 x 45 x 90 tri-directional configurations. The bi-directional and tri-directional material is effectively two or three layers of UNI stitched one layer above another and can save time when laying for example two layers of UNI at 45 degrees, instead use one layer of stitched bi-directional. The fibres run straighter this way. AA also keeps peel ply in wide 3 foot plus widths at a fraction of the cost of 2 inch and 3 inch rolls. Phillip Johnson From: Lee Devlin Subject: 45 degree BID on rolls Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 15:37:07 MDT Hi Marc, > Figures I'd hear this after buying all the BID for chapters 8,10,11 in the > normal configuration. I didn't notice this in their latest catalog, but it > sounds EXCELLENT! I'm sick of all these little triangles (and I'm still on > the fuselage). Don't feel too bad. I called AA when Sid first posted this last year after he had attended one of their composites seminars. They were clueless as to what I was asking for. I believe the cloth he's referring to is 'knitted E glass' which is not 7725 crowfoot weave BID. (Nat would not be pleased at the substitution even if it had _better_ properties). It's also about 80% more expensive than 7725. So unless you're wasting more than 45% of your material in the form of little triangles, it won't save you any money, but maybe a little time. I don't think the tapes are E glass. They are S glass (Nat would be even more pleased) and are about 8 times more expensive than cutting your own. In other words, every 24" strip you cut on your own saves you about $1.50. I've emailed Sid to make sure this is what he is referring to but after talking with Alexander Aeroplane again, I'm pretty sure it is. Lee Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 18:07:31 EDT Subject: Re: 45 degree BID on rolls Lee; >.............. I believe the cloth he's >referring to is 'knitted E glass' which is not 7725 crowfoot weave BID. >(Nat would not be pleased at the substitution even if it had _better_ >properties). It's also about 80% more expensive than 7725. So unless >you're wasting more than 45% of your material in the form of little >triangles, it won't save you any money, but maybe a little time. Oh well. >I don't think the tapes are E glass. They are S glass (Nat would be >even more pleased) Can't blame him on that one. Changing material properties is a BIG deal. >.......... and are about 8 times more expensive than cutting >your own. In other words, every 24" strip you cut on your own saves you >about $1.50. Hmmmm, then what did I just get for spar caps from WICKS? It's the stuff Nat called for in the plans. 3" wide, with loose cross fibers and a colored thread for pulling out the cross fibers. >I've emailed Sid to make sure this is what he is referring to but after >talking with Alexander Aeroplane again, I'm pretty sure it is. If you ever get all this info straightened out as to materials, I'd really appreciate it (and I think the rest of us would as well) if you'd make a table of the vendors/materials/costs and post it for the rest of us. Thanks. -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:04:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: Chapter 9 costs On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: > > I got an Aircraft Spruce flyer yesterday saying that they're going to be > paying the shipping cost on small volume orders over $500, and since I just > bought chapters 8,10,11,12 from Wicks, I looked at Chapter 9 for cost > differences. > > Aircraft Spruce was about $40 - $50 cheaper on parts, but since the overall > cost was ~$1000, the freight would be free, and given the weights of the > wheels, tires, tubes, glass, etc., that could easily run to $100. I plan > to buy the epoxy (and a couple of other things that A.S. doesn't carry) > from Wicks and the rest in one or two orders of > $500 from A.S. This > should save ~$150 on chapter 9 alone. This of course does not even > include the actual gear legs from Featherlite or Russell Aero (for another > ~$600). > Marc, This was their policy 3 years ago when I got started and my experience was a huge hassle. "Free" freight only applied on small, expensive orders. They may have changed (the experience for me was so awful I swore never to buy from them again), but I would advise caution. Janet from Wicks has been my contact person and she has never missed a beat. Anyways, I hope it works for you, but I wanted to let you know of my experiences so you could proceed with caution. BTW, if ACS is greatly improved, I would like to know since they are much closer. Later, Eric Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 07:45:49 -0400 From: MKansky@aol.com Subject: Negotiate Supplier Prices! I'll try sending this again. First time didn't work. --------------------- Forwarded message: From: MAILER-DAEMON@hp.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Date: 95-04-25 23:35:09 EDT ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa While connected to hpwarhw.an.hp.com. [15.57.193.122] (tcp): >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:32:18 -0400 From: MKansky@aol.com Subject: Suppliers will Negotiate prices Cozy Builders, When I first started building, last April, I put together a spreadsheet that compared Wicks to Alexanders. I faxed it to Alexander Aircraft and we went over it on the phone. If their price was higher than Wicks they would either match it or in many cases beat Wicks prices. My first order was about$1000. I'm not sure if this was a reason for the flexibility but asking did save me considerable $$$$. If you don't ask you don't get! ...Marty Kansky ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:54:56 -0400 From: MKansky@aol.com Subject: Featherlite I recently received the rear keel cover from Featherlite along with the nose-cone w/door, ng30 cover and the nose wheel cover. I am sending the rear keel cover back. It wasn't made with a foam core as is indicated in the plans. It also didn't contain the approx 1.5 inch vent tube. So much for saving a little time. I am also questioning the nose wheel cover. It seems that I will have to trim it a bit length-wise to get it to fit. I am wondering if it was designed for the larger nose wheel. Which brings up the point. What is the wicks part number for the nose wheel and related parts? Has anyone else purchased some these components? ...Marty Kansky N321CZ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 22:36:07 -0400 From: MKansky@aol.com Subject: Landing Gear FYI I finally recieved the main landing gear from Featherlite. It took three months to receive. The lesson learned is to Plan Ahead! ...Marty Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 21:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Westland Subject: Re: Landing Gear On Wed, 14 Jun 1995 MKansky@aol.com wrote: > FYI > > I finally recieved the main landing gear from Featherlite. It took three > months to receive. The lesson learned is to Plan Ahead! > > ...Marty > I ordered mine from Featherlite as well, but since then I understand that Aerocad sells one as well, already wrapped in unidirectional glass (8 plies?) that sells for about the same price. They also ship it for less somehow. Even if it costs a little more, not having to sand the bugger for those lay-ups would make it worth it. Eric Date: Thu, 15 Jun 95 9:15:20 EDT Subject: Re: Landing Gear (fwd) Eric W. wrote: >MKansky@aol.com wrote: >> I finally recieved the main landing gear from Featherlite. It took three >> months to receive. The lesson learned is to Plan Ahead! >I ordered mine from Featherlite as well, but since then I understand that >Aerocad sells one as well, already wrapped in unidirectional glass (8 >plies?) that sells for about the same price. They also ship it for less >somehow. Even if it costs a little more, not having to sand the bugger >for those lay-ups would make it worth it. I seem to remember having a discussion with Lee D. about some Aerocad L.G. which (Nat claimed) was less than optimal. Lee - could you comment on what you know? If I need to order the Featherlite one, I should probably do it soon (as should a few of us - maybe some volume could pump up our buying power!). -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 15 Jun 95 08:36:54 PDT From: "Michael Antares" Subject: Landing gear Just to add comment to the FeatherLite story. I received my landing gear within a month of ordering it. In addition, I had planned to drive up to Booneville and pick it up on a certain day and Larry informed me, when I called to verify three days before, that they had screwed up and had given mine to someone else. They then molded a gear the next day and postcured it the following day so that it was ready on time. Having met Larry, I found him competent, personable and responsive; although he admits to having a problem with schedules. He said an order should normally be placed at least 30 days in advance. Certainly in some instances, and perhaps in all, he needs to bunch up the manufacture of a certain part to make it practical and economical. He does not maintain a stock of very many of the items and especially the larger pieces. My two cents... Michael Antares Software/Hardware Systems Engineering mantares@crl.com Santa Rosa, California Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 10:02:30 -0400 From: RonKidd@aol.com Subject: Re: Fuel Sight Gauges (fwd) I would stay away from ALL Westach gauges. I didnt have fuel, but a full set of engine gauges had to be replaced within two years of first flight. Oil P & T, CHT & EGT. Poor quality and innacurate readings. Look for others. Tue, 4 Jul 95 01:38:26 W. Europe Daylight Time--100 From: "Niels Oestergaard Kjaer" Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 01:39:22 +0000 Subject: Styrofoam compagny in France Would like to get the address and Fax# on the compagny in France that produces the styrofoam for the wings and the canard. The French Ambassade here have tried very hard without any results. Are any supplier of materials listed in the plans on the Net? As a net novice I have had some problems installing and figuring out all the different softwareprograms and the Net!!, so appologies if any messages shows up twice or have some strange contents. Get some wired messages from the Net Postmaster thou. Niels Denmark Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 10:21:40 -0400 From: SidLloyd@aol.com Subject: Re: Requiem: Nat on Mailing List, etc. In a message dated 95-07-04 01:13:55 EDT, marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com writes: >Third, Aerocad gear struts: I think you mistook Sid Lloyd's comments >about buying the gear struts from Aerocad for my own. I forwarded a >message from him to the rest of the mailing list, so it may have >appeared to be my comments. I haven't purchased my gear struts yet. >I >was, however, aware of your comments regarding the Aerocad struts, >and >was wary of them for the reasons you state. Sid's comments were in >response to my question regarding from whom to purchase the struts. Great letter, Marc! I concurr completely with your comments. I do have a question about the Aerocad struts. What was Nat's problem with them? He used to recommend them. Sid Tue, 4 Jul 95 18:15:20 W. Europe Daylight Time--100 From: "Niels Oestergaard Kjaer" Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 18:16:05 +0100 Subject: Fax# DOW styrofoam Does anyone have a fax# / E-mail for DOW styrofoam ? I have one of their brochures from a danish Long-Ez builder dated 1984, this number ends in west US at a nice woman making an earning by hand-knitting !! Have any thought about the Canopy design, and maybe get one made in a more modern design. Uli Wolther has one maid, which in front is cut straight and the sides goes a little bit outwards on its way up wards, which gives the comfort of not bumping ones head into the canopy in turbulent air. Niels From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Aerocad Landing Gear Date: Tue, 4 Jul 95 17:40:25 EDT Sid L. wrote: >Great letter, Marc! I concurr completely with your comments. I do have a >question about the Aerocad struts. What was Nat's problem with them? He >used to recommend them. Here's what he said in a written letter to me: "All the airplanes I built I used Featherlite gear struts. I recently saw a gear from Aercad (Aerocad). It was wrapped with the stitched biax or triax (not approved) and looked VERY ROUGH, not anywhere near as nice as the ones I made and wrapped myself with UND per plans. Because the strut was already wrapped, it was impossible to see how well the strut itself was made - whether S-glass, whether post cured, whether molded under pressure to squeeze out excess resin, what resin was used, etc. For these reasons, plus I have never used one myself, plus no planes are flying with this gear, I don't think it is ethical for me to recommend it. Aerocad does NOT make it per plans. There is a saying that you get what you pay for!" Straight from the horses mouth. -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 10:05:57 -0400 From: SidLloyd@aol.com Subject: Re: Aerocad Landing Gear In a message dated 95-07-04 17:44:14 EDT, marcz@hpwarhw.an.hp.com (Marc J. Zeitlin) writes: >>Great letter, Marc! I concurr completely with your comments. I do have a >>question about the Aerocad struts. What was Nat's problem with them? He >>used to recommend them. > >Here's what he said in a written letter to me: > >"All the airplanes I built I used Featherlite gear struts. I recently >saw a gear from Aercad (Aerocad). It was wrapped with the stitched biax >or triax (not approved) and looked VERY ROUGH, not anywhere near as >nice as the ones I made and wrapped myself with UND per plans. Because >the strut was already wrapped, it was impossible to see how well the >strut itself was made - whether S-glass, whether post cured, whether >molded under pressure to squeeze out excess resin, what resin was used, >etc. For these reasons, plus I have never used one myself, plus no >planes are flying with this gear, I don't think it is ethical for me to >recommend it. Aerocad does NOT make it per plans. There is a saying >that you get what you pay for!" > >Straight from the horses mouth. The AeroCad part is molded using Safe-t-poxy II (I've seen them do it) and then covered with triax cloth. That is the only thing that is not "per plans." They do the triax layups for free. They will also put on the tabs for you. My personal opinion is the workmanship is great. Caveat- I haven't flown on it yet! Sid From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Fax# DOW styrofoam (fwd) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 95 16:05:01 EDT Niels K. asks: >Does anyone have a fax# / E-mail for DOW styrofoam ? >I have one of their brochures from a danish Long-Ez builder dated >1984, this number ends in west US at a nice woman making an earning >by hand-knitting !! The toll free phone # for DOW in the U.S. is: 1-800-441-4369 No fax or email was listed in the 1992 Thomas Register - hopefully the people on the phone will be able to help you. Dow does have a web page at: http://www.dow.com/ but it's pretty sparse. -- Marc J. Zeitlin E-Mail: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:05:48 -0400 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Subject: Builders Conference (August) On Auguest 12th Aircraft Spruce is having a Seminar on Composites with Dich Rutan & Dave Ronenberg as insturctors. I will be flying into LAX the same moning of the seminar, if anyone wants to share my car from the airport, send mail. Marc P. Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 13:33:27 +1000 From: allana@interconnect.com.au (allana@interconnect.com.au) Subject: Re: AeroCanard >Does anyone have any more information about the AeroCanard or about the >parts that they make for the Mk IV?? I bought Aerocanard fuselage top, quick build wing and canard and strakes and a few other fibreglass bits and pieces. I finished my canard, have my fuse on the gear and am about to glass the wings over the next couple of weeks (I hope!). So far most parts have gone together very well, are close to the plans spec (other than the turtleback and cowling) and have saved me many hours. The quality of the parts is very good and Jeff and Greg Russell are very helpful (important when you are 12,000 miles away). I'd recommend them. For specifics about pricing etc call them directly. Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:02:57 -0400 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Subject: Re: OSHKOSH 95 forum tapes In a message dated 95-09-05 00:08:31 EDT, parkyn@citr.uq.oz.au (Nick Parkyn) writes: >Marc, > I would be interested in purchasing the tape of Roy Bailets forum >(Contouring and Finishing Composites for Laminar Flow Enchancement and >Drag) - OSHKOSH 95. > >I would be grateful if you could advise cost and cost of surface mail >postage to Australia. You can send your request to: Forum Recordings Dave Yeoman 3410 St. Peters Rd Marion, Iowa 52302 (319)377-4188 The tape in question is forum #95-89 They list a price of $8.00 to include the cost of tape and postage, but they do not give a international mailing price. If you have any trouble getting the recording from them, I will be glad to get one off to you. The plastic micro balloons are very hard to find, as soon as I find a source I will post it. They are to be used on the surface only. Marc P. N425NC Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 02:02:03 -0400 From: KSPREUER@aol.com Subject: Re: Rear Windows (fwd) In a message dated 95-09-13 16:05:01 EDT, you write: >Last I saw, the approved vendor for Canopies and Windows was: > > Airplane Plastics Co. > 8300 Dayton Rd. > Fairborn, OH 45324 > (513) 864-5607 > > Right, Airplane Plastics is also known as Fox Lite. Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:47:20 -0400 From: william l kleb Subject: aerocanard option hello all, i just received plans last wednesday... i have one immediate concern: i am above the faa average in size and weight: 6'-3", 185 lbs. i spoke with nat about the possibility of raising the canopy slightly for more head room and he said it was a simple task and that vance had already done such a thing. what i am wondering about now is the front and rear seat widths. it seems that especially the rear seats are a little cramped, and i was trying to figure out exactly what the aerocanard options offered me in that department and at what point do i have to make the decision? (do i have to buy the tub, the turtle back, both, etc?) thanks in advance, bill Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:12:53 -0400 From: william l kleb Subject: Re: aerocanard option the Mark.Turner@inetnebr.com address bounced so i am posting this to the group... Mark Turner writes: (regarding my question about the aerocanard options) > > I am in the process of putting an AeroCanard page up on the net... > Some of the pages are there... If you want to look at the > differences check: > > http://www.webcom.com/~tns/AeroCanard/compare.html > > thanks. it is currently a little hard to read at the moment (at least with my version of netscape), it came out as onereallylonglinewithnospaces... i noticed that sid had a trip report to aerocanard online: http://rampages.onramp.net/~sidl/roadtrip.html i do have the info from jeff russell on the parts, but i am curious as to when i have to decide, what is the minimum i would have to buy, and what i gain. it looks like i gain 3.5 inches in the back seat width; and during my conversation with jeff on the phone, he claims extra shoulder room in the front seat even though the listed widths are the same on his comparison sheet. he says this is due to differences in the foam thickness---since he is doing a mold he doesn't have it quite as thick in that area. again, thanks for the info, bil (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0t0F1y-0004PPC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 16:37 CDT with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 03 Oct 1995 16:34:41 -0500 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 16:43:01 -0500 From: Scott Christensen Subject: E-racer I just got my Kitplanes mag and noticed that the E-racer has a kit vender now. Interesting... What are the opinions here about the E-racer? I think it is a neat plane but having that back seat in the Cozy 4 is a BIG plus. I am pretty aware of Nat's attitude about the E-racer. He wrote me about the 12 forced landings due to engine problems and the 2 times that the retract gear has collapsed. (hence his attitude towards auto engines and retract gear) Scott Christensen From: Lee Devlin Subject: Re: E-racer Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 16:05:41 MDT > I just got my Kitplanes mag and noticed that the E-racer has a kit vender > now. Interesting... > > What are the opinions here about the E-racer? I think it is a neat plane > but having that back seat in the Cozy 4 is a BIG plus. > > I am pretty aware of Nat's attitude about the E-racer. He wrote me about > the 12 forced landings due to engine problems and the 2 times that the > retract gear has collapsed. (hence his attitude towards auto engines > and retract gear) I was debating between building an E-Racer and the the Cozy Mk IV and here's what I found: (Incidentally, I've decided on the Cozy so don't be too put off if my assessment of the E-Racer sounds negative, remember, I'm biased :-) 1. An automotive engine with prop reduction ends up costing almost as much as a run-out O320 or O360 after you get done putting everything into it. Granted, it should be much cheaper to maintain. 2. The E-Racer is designed for racing. It has almost no luggage capacity primarily because the engine is on the center spar and there's no hat rack behind the seats. An option to install an O320 exists (called the MKII) which gives some extra room behind the seats but the only one flying crashed killing the occupants when it lawn-darted so there may be problems with the W&B. 3. Recent changes to the exhaust stack makes the exhaust travel along the rear cowling severely discoloring it. I asked Shirl if there was anything that could be done to prevent this he didn't seem to think it need any changes. Previously, the short pipes directed the exhaust into the prop, reducing its efficiency so keeping the gases traveling along the cowling adds 15 or 20 kts to the cruise. 4. Dickey has had at least three dead-stick landings which I have read about (there may be more) due to engine failures and has missed several Oshkosh fly-ins because of engine problems. One time, during a race he sponsors in Jackpot, NV, he had Jeanna Yeager on board when he pushed the oil temps beyond safe limits and an engine fire resulted. He made it back to the field but the aircraft sustained major damage. He and Jeanna were unharmed. 5. The retractable landing gear is neat but it's not without a price. In a Varieze, Long-EZ, or Cozy landing with the front wheel up is merely embarrasing. On the E-Racer, a gear-up landing up means you need to buy a new prop and probably rebuild the engine. 6. Although the plans are listed at $250, the engine installation plans are another $150 so they are not much cheaper than the Cozy plans. I have spoken with Stan Montgomery at Oshkosh a while back (Stan is the owner of Glassic, the E-Racer kit Company) and he speaks about the E-Racer with evangelical fervor. Stan is a very convincing speaker and, when I find someone with that 'gift', I have to discount it somewhat lest I get swept up in the excitment. I still think the E-Racer looks cooler than the Cozy and, in general, an airplane's looks are a lot more important to many pilots than anything else so that's worth quite a bit. Lee D. From: Lee Devlin Subject: Wicks 'Chapter Kits' Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 13:55:07 MDT While we're on the subject of Wicks 'Chapter' kits, if you find that there are items in a Chapter list that you really don't need (like a 1 yd roll of UNI), you can have them delete it from the order and get credit for it. Recently, I didn't want to buy the seatbelts on a Chapter 8 order (yet) so they deleted them from the list. Evidently, the chapter list is like a macro that fills in their computer screen with all of the line items. Since there's no 'chapter discount', it's no problem to delete get credit for an item. This also makes slight modifications in chapter content easy to do. For example, you could ask for Chapter 9 and have them change item x to item y. Sorry if this advice is too late to help Norm, but I appreciate his bringing it to attention of the rest of us. Lee Devlin Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 12:32:23 -0500 From: tims@enet.net (Tim Sullivan) Subject: Re: Wicks 'Chapter Kits' >While we're on the subject of Wicks 'Chapter' kits, if you find that >there are items in a Chapter list that you really don't need (like a 1 >yd roll of UNI), you can have them delete it from the order and get >credit for it. Recently, I didn't want to buy the seatbelts on a >Chapter 8 order (yet) so they deleted them from the list. Evidently, >the chapter list is like a macro that fills in their computer screen >with all of the line items. Exactly. I purchased CH 4-7 all at one time. I had them delete all of the glass and epoxy. I bought the entire amount of glass at one time. The epoxy I held off since the heat here can really trash the stuff in a garage and the wife would have a big problem with it in the house (relativly new house). Tim Sullivan (tims@enet.net) Phoenix, AZ | * | Cozy MK IV Builder #470 |-----(/)-----| The journey begins 8/10/95 / \ o o Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:11:55 -0700 From: hal9@ix.netcom.com (Hal Hunt ) Subject: Low Drag Exhaust Pipes for Pushers Thought you might be interested and might spread the word about my new Cont. 0-200 and Lycoming "Low Drag" "Hidden" or "Tucked In" Exhaust Pipes for Pushers. I am new to the net, and am one of the longest time builders of a Long-EZ around, (still not finished). I helped a lot (many hundreds of hours) with the prototype Berkut, am starting a Berkut as my next project. Just two weeks ago I was up at Santa Paula talking with Klaus and discussing Electronic Ignitions, props, drag reduction, exhaust pipes, etc. And we both decided that I should at long last, start making pipes for the Cont inental 0-200 engine also. I have been making Stainless Steel Exhaust Pipes and Ram-Air Airboxes for the Long-EZ, Berkut, Cozy, Velocity, Infinity, and any pusher with Lycoming 0-235, 0-290, 0-320, 0-360 engines for the last 6 years. So this is to let you know that in a few weeks I will also have available Vari-Eze "Low Drag" -- "Hidden" -- "Tucked In" exhaust pipes for the Vari-Eze with a Cont. 0-200 engine as well as for the Lycoming's. Send me your (snail-mail) U.S. Mail Postal Address (not e-mail, I don't have a way of sending the info sheets by e-mail), or call me at 818-989-5534, and I will send you a detailed info sheet about the Lycoming and Cont. 0-200 "Low Drag" Stainless Steel Pipes with all of the details you need. Thanks, Hal Hunt P.S. All or the Carnard Pushers are avialible on four floppy disks, Mac or PC, from Stet Elliott at 714-839-8233 or E-mail him at ... StetsonE@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:39:21 -0700 From: Stet Elliott Subject: Re: Long EZ Repair (fwd) At 02:31 PM 10/17/95 EDT, Marc wrote: >George Reaves writes: >> >There's a guy named "David Orr", I believe (his address and phone # were >in the latest issue of the Central States Newsletter) who deals in VE >and LE plans. The LE builders on this mailing list might be able to >help you out here as well. > David Orr's telephone number is 714 248 5725. He can usually find a set of plans for most canard type aircraft. He charges a 3% finder's fee. I obtained my Long-EZ plans from him over 10(!) years ago, and the $6.00 finder's fee was the best money I ever spent. He doesn't act as a broker or go-between. He'll provide the name of the potential seller to the buyer. If the buyer buys, David hopes the finder's fee materializes, but its all on the honor system. He's an honest, forthright guy and won't do you wrong. Stet Elliott stetson@speed.net Perpetual Long-EZ builder Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 17:43:00 -0700 From: Stet Elliott Subject: Re: Canard Pushers Newsletter At 08:39 AM 10/25/95 EDT, Marc wrote: >Snip... >>However, I remember someone advertising in Sport Aviation or >>Kitplanes with a straight ASCII version of the newsletter available on disk. >> I can't find the ad anymore and suspect that the fellow went out of >>business. > >Our own Stet Elliot has these. He can fill in the details. You out of >business, Stet? I'm still selling the "Electronic CP" which is all of Rutan's Canard Pusher's on Disk. I've been selling this product for the past 4 years with Rutan's written authorization. $65.00 gets you all 81 newsletters, the first of which was published in 1974. The files are text only, and are compatible with any decent word processor. No graphics are included, just text. Available in both Mac and PC disk formats. I've got a couple more informational products for sale that are canard aircraft related, but I won't bore you with the details. Anyone interested, post me privately. Sorry for the advertisement, but you asked! > Stet Elliott Elliott Information Services stetson@speed.net Perpetual Long-EZ builder Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 10:24:00 -0400 From: Dick.Finn@FNB.sprint.com Subject: Re: canard pusher on disk Todd, I sent off my $65 to Stet Elliot for the CP Newsletters on disk and received them the day before yesterday. Stet did a great job on them. He indicated on his cover page for each file that he had to re-key most of the info. In reading through them I was very impressed with the amount of work he put in and the accuracy he obtained. I did find one issue of the CP on a home page but think Stet's stuff is better. Send him your $65 -- you won't be disappointed. Dick Finn ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: canard pusher on disk Author: TODDC2@aol.com at INTERNET Date: 10/26/95 9:48 PM Dick Finn writes: >... Burt rutan indicated... most happy to see CANARD PUSHER distributed via >electronic means. >...can't find...suspect out of buisiness. This sounds like good to know information. I have not heard of any other source for these "on-line", however, I am new to the WEB. ToddC2@aol.com Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 19:05:17 -0800 From: Mark Turner Subject: Infinity Landing Gear Hey Guys FYI: I talked with Jim Nelson @ AVEMCO insurance today on the phone. He told me that as of right now, the Infinity gear is NOT covered by Avemco Insurance... He stated that there is a problem with a pin at the top of landing gear in the scissors... The hole elongates and allows the pin to fall out... Jim said that if there is a re-design Avemco will re-consider coverage on the Infinity gear... I also talked again with Jeff Russell and he said that Avemco was not very impressed with the 'JD AD' that Infinity isssued... Mark... Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:03:47 -0500 From: NBalog@aol.com Subject: Re: Infinity Landing Gear In a message dated 95-11-09 10:01:23 EST, Tim S. wrote: > Lots of folks use avemco. I understand that they will cover the first 20 hours of flight >with special conditions, which is real important to lots of folks. I spoke with their rep last month at Wilmington (DE) and here's the scoop: I'm low time (just over 100 hours) and they want about $250 a year to cover the airframe for loss (fire, mice, whatever) THEN (and only then) when I'm ready to fly will they cover the first TEN hours for approx. $1500 a year. -Norm Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 22:49:45 -0800 From: stetson@speed.net Subject: Re: Rudder Cables for Canadian Cozy's Since my previous post about Rutan's Flush Rudder Plans as a possible solution to Phillip's rudder conduit problem, I've had several builders ask for fax copies of the complete set of plans. My intentions are to only fax copies of a couple of pages of the plans to Phillip, which only shows how to install a new rudder conduit after the wing is built. However, I hesitate to copy the COMPLETE set of plans for anyone because Rutan Aircraft Factory still sells them, and I feel its unethical to provide unauthorized copies. For those of you who wish to install Rutan's version of the flush rudder belhorns, I'd suggest you contact: Rutan Aircraft Factory Inc. Building 13, Airport 1654 Flight Line Mojave, CA 93501 805 824 2645 RAF is only open on Tuesdays for phone calls, preferably between 0800 and 1100. The Flush Rudder Belhorn Plans are only $10.00 per set, last time I checked. Be aware that this is not an easy mod, especially if your wings are already built. The plans are not idiot-proof, and you're going to have to do some head-scratching to figure out the details. I'm currently doing the modification as part of new construction, and even then I'm not sure it's worth the effort. For a retrofit I'm SURE it's not worth the effort. Stet Elliott stetson@speed.net Perpetual Long-EZ builder Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:31:25 -0500 From: Marcnadine@aol.com Subject: Re:1 Handout from Oshkosh Forum. In a message dated 95-11-22 01:20:05 EST, parkyn@citr.uq.oz.au (Nick Parkyn) writes: > purchased the tape of the forum "Contouring & Finishing >Composites-Laminar Flow Enhancement/Drag Reduction by Roy Bailets. The tape >mentions a hand out. > >Would anyone have this hand-out and be happy to send me a copy / or confirm >the address of Bailets Composites so that I can write to him to get a copy. > >Thanks. > >Nick Parkyn. You can contact Roy Bailets at (805)824-2387. The handout is very important in that he lists the amount of Plastic Mircospheres to epoxy to mix a various stages of the finishing process which is very important. The tape is great and if you are planning to use Plastic you had best order the tape from. Forum Recordings Dave Yeoman 3410 St. Peters Rd. Marion, Iowa 52302 (319)377-4188 Ask for tape #95-89 Contouring & Finishing composites- for Laminar Flow. The tapes cost $8.00 which includes postage. Also ask for the catalog of Oshkosh Forums, about 400 were held including Nat's forum. They also had many on engines including the Franklin. Marc N425CZ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 11:40:10 -0500 From: william l kleb Subject: aerocannard fueslage tub has anyone built an aerocannard fuselage tub? it is the same as the cozy iv tub, only widened 3.5" by the time you get to the firewall. the aerocannard tub is the same from the front seat bulkhead forward. jeff russell is sending me the templates for the rear bulkheads ($50), but i have to modify them slightly since they are meant for the molded fuselage tub which has a constant thickness whereas the plans-built tub has various build-ups. jeff said 4 or 5 others have built the wider tub, and i am curious if that includes any on this list. bill kleb (w.l.kleb@larc.nasa.gov) Date: 1 Dec 1995 09:25:01 U From: "Judd Stewart" Subject: 2183-2410 Epoxy system Builders- Bad News- The company that manufactures the 2183, 2184, 2410 epoxy system has been sold and the new company is no longer producing the product. Good News- Alexander and Spruce and have purchased qty's that should last for awhile. Great News- A fellow COZY MKIV builder Gordon Bowens (former 2183, 2184, 2410 Product Manager) is going to manufacture a product that is "identical to the original" . He hopes to have his product on the shelves by February. judd From: Marc Zeitlin Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 13:04:04 EST Subject: 2183-2410 Epoxy system (fwd) Judd Stewart writes: >Great News- >A fellow COZY MKIV builder Gordon Bowens (former 2183, 2184, 2410 >Product Manager) is going to manufacture a product that is "identical >to the original". He hopes to have his product on the shelves by >February. Gordon is a member of this mailing list, and can be reached at: Bowen, Gordon gbowen@ix.netcom.com Walnut Creek, CA 510-256-7385 -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: 04 Dec 95 09:16:04 EST From: Ken Miller <75202.3245@compuserve.com> Subject: Builder hints and mods I currently am supervising the construction of a Cozy MKIV In my hangar at Brookhaven Airport on Long Island. The builder's name is Chris Scida (SEEDA), who is doing excellent work. He has been building for only 10 months and had completed the airframe. We are currently glassing the inside of the canopy rails. We reshaped and glassed the nose, canard cover, and outside canopy rail all at one time. If you would like to hear how we did it, Email me. I am working on the design for a common sump fuel system like the Velocity for it. I have been flying the system on my Long-EZ for 350 hours and am very satisfied. No fuel management, just fill 'em and go. We will document the procedure, if anyone is interested. I also manufacture the Davenport type Shimmy dampener. The cost is $99 plus $6 shipping. I am considering manufacturing a retrofittable self-aligning wingroot aileron torque tube bearing system, if there is enough interest. I installed it on my Long, and there is NO slop in the aileron system. I estimate the cost for the set to be around $200. The bearings are very expensive, but you will never have to replace them. We also manufacture a 'reverse taper' carbon fiber spinner set that includes the crush plate, flowguide, and spinner for $250, as well as cowlings and fuel tank leading edges for the Long-EZ. The leading edges will fit the Cozy II and III. We provide builder assistance at my location for $15 to $25 per hour, depending on the job. My Long, N6KD, was awarded the Wright Brothers Award this year at the Dayton airshow, and will be featured in an upcoming Sport Aviation. If any of you have an interest in any items, or need help with your projects, let me know. Ken Miller 75202.3245@compuserve.com 105 Kraus Rd. Mattituck, N.Y. 11952 (516)395-2237 (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0tMehK-000UffC; Mon, 4 Dec 95 09:29 PST (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0tMehJ-000qDmC; Mon, 4 Dec 95 09:29 PST Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 10:24:00 PST From: Brian DeFord Subject: Electric speed brake info After looking throught the archives I was able to find the name of the fellow selling the electric speed brake mod (Wayne Lanza). Can anyone give recommendations on the system other than what was stated about mounting it? Also, what is the cost and where can I get an address to order one? Thanks, Brian DeFord From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: Electric speed brake info (fwd) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 14:15:11 EST Brian DeFord writes: >After looking throught the archives I was able to find the name of the >fellow selling the electric speed brake mod (Wayne Lanza). Can anyone give >recommendations on the system other than what was stated about mounting it? Can't help you there. >Also, what is the cost and where can I get an address to order one? Aha. If you had looked in the newsletters (now with indices and T.O.C.'s :-) ) you'd have found it. However, Wayne is also on the mailing list at: Lanza, Wayne wlanza@ --- Chap. 24 9425 Honeysuckle Drive wingnut.mlb.semi.harris.com Sebastian, FL 32976 407-664-8953 or 407-664-9239 -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 23:02:18 -0500 From: GregOSU@aol.com Subject: AeroCannard Does anyone have any additional info on this A/C? I recieved my info packet and it said Nat had licensed it. Does anyone have any additional safety/buildability/design support information on it? I am doing homework this winter and signing up for the Alexander building class this comming June. I have a few finalists as far as projects, but their running neck and neck and anything to pull one out a head would be great. I'll let yopu khow who wins the race as soon as it is posted. ;) Thanks, Greg Schroeder (GregOSU@aol.com) From: Marc J. Zeitlin Subject: AeroCannard (fwd) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 9:22:51 EST Greg Schroeder wrote: > Does anyone have any additional info on this A/C? I recieved my info >packet and it said Nat had licensed it. Does anyone have any additional >safety/buildability/design support information on it? See Mark Turner's AeroCanard web page at: http://www.webcom.com/~tns/AeroCanard/ It's got some comparisons with COZY's and Velocities, as well as prices and specs. There's only one flying at this point, but Jeff flew it to Oshkosh this summer with his wife and kids in it, so he must trust it. It's essentially a COZY with more rear seat room, larger wheels, a slightly different cowling, and no lower winglets. There are probably some more slight differences too. Looked very nice, even in primer - from 30 feet away, you'd have to look hard to tell it wasn't a COZY. -- Marc J. Zeitlin Email: marcz@an.hp.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 00:57:41 -0500 From: StetsonE@aol.com Subject: Nose Gear Ratchet I sent my check to Curt Smith a couple of months ago for the nose gear ratchet. I received a letter from him this past week stating he now has enough orders to run a batch, and he has sent the gears off to the subcontractor for modification. He should ship by January. He states that this endeavor is a "break even" proposition, so who knows how long he will continue to provide the ratchet. If you want one, it might be a good idea to get your order in now. I can't remember what I paid (wife has the checkbook), but you can easily check with Curt before sending a check. His email address is csmith@siue.edu Regular mail is: 204 Woodland Dr. Edwardsville, IL 62025 phone 618-656-8209 Stet Elliott Perpetual Long-EZ builder