Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 00:26:40 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Tire valves People; Getting close here - if I'm lucky I'll start the engine next week. At any rate, I've got a question about tire inflation valves. I understand the pressure I'm supposed to use in the tires (50 psi in the mains, 70 psi in the nose), but all three valve stems seem fishy to me. They're threaded, but all three stems stick out past the threaded portion, so that if you try to thread a nut down on them, the nut just ends up spinning on the inner portion of the valve, and doesn't tighten on anything. Putting the nut INSIDE the rim wouldn't work (with another on the outside) as there's no thread inside the rim to thread it on. I put a small spacer on the valve and tightened the nut just past finger tight (with some locktite on it, so it can't come off) just to ensure that the valve doesn't wave around in the breeze, but something doesn't seem right. If anyone has any input, I'd be happy to hear it. Jim N. - I purchased these tires/tubes/wheels from you back in the dim, dark past, when dinosaurs still roamed the streets of Massachusetts here. If you have any input, I'd particularly like to hear it. Thanks. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ From ???@??? Tue Jun 04 21:52:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020604102003.IHYC688.mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:20:03 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17FBQ3-0003CB-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 06:20:03 -0400 Received: from mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-6.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.25]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14750 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.79) by mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (6.5.007) id 3CFB2D63000C8414; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:20:02 +0200 Received: from papy (217.128.53.252) by mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr (6.5.007) id 3CFB23D9000C2105; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:20:02 +0200 Message-ID: <001401c20bb1$6dbf5d90$fc3580d9@papy> From: "Jean-Yves Helou" To: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Cc: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020604002128.00add1e0@pop.rcn.com> Subject: Re: Tire valves Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:20:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 you don't need to put any nut on it . the whell do the job for it .the tube can't move inside the whell. the threated portion is only here for the pump. good luck with your engine Fly safe Jean-Yves Cozy MkIII F-PHMH From ???@??? Tue Jun 04 21:52:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020604141346.OALL12072.mta01.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:13:46 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17FF4D-0002zV-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 10:13:46 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08165; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14048 for cozy_builders-list; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:12:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from m12.boston.juno.com (m12.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.75]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14042 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:10:11 -0400 From: alwick@juno.com Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkKo8s5j4TPGMxNbLC7M94MdVUrztjb0Edg=="> Received: (from alwick@juno.com) by m12.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G4GEANAK; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 10:07:30 EDT To: cozy_builders@canard.com Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:06:35 -0700 Subject: Re: COZY: Tire valves Message-ID: <20020604.070654.-382065.2.alwick@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-6,8-9,11-51 Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: alwick@juno.com You might want to double check that 70psi in nose. I think that is well above spec for tube and tire. I use 40 psi nose. My valve stems do not require any sort of nut or anchoring. -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 140+ hours on engine/airframe Prop construction, Auto conversion, and Glass cockpit details: http://members.aol.com/alwick/ From ???@??? Tue Jun 04 21:40:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020604144955.QMXZ688.mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:49:55 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17FFdC-0005WK-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 10:49:54 -0400 Received: from out009.verizon.net (out009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.131]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19312 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by out009.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020604144952.ZUVZ21634.out009.verizon.net@localhost>; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:49:52 -0500 From: Eric Westland Reply-To: eric.westland@verizon.net To: "Marc J. Zeitlin" , Cozy Builders Mailing List Subject: Re: COZY: Tire valves Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 7:49:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020604144952.ZUVZ21634.out009.verizon.net@localhost> > Getting close here - if I'm lucky I'll start the engine next week. That's exciting to hear! >I'm supposed to use in the tires (50 psi in the mains, 70 > psi in the nose), That is about what I've been using and it works fine so far. > but all three stems stick out past the threaded portion, I don't remember seeing enough of the valve stem being threaded to get a nut down far enough on the stem to contact the wheel. I believe the nut acts as a jamb nut to keep the valve stem cap in place. A couple of other thoughts - It is good practice to coat the tubes with tire talcum powder before inflating them. Then, keep them inflated so the tire does not get the chance to spin on the wheel while landing - the tire will move, but the tube is constrained by the valve stem which of course is not a good thing. Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:58:01 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Tire valves Eric Westland (and others) wrote: >I don't remember seeing enough of the valve stem being threaded to get a nut >down far enough on the stem to contact the wheel. I believe the nut acts as >a jamb nut to keep the valve stem cap in place. Thanks for all the feedback. I assumed that the stem had to be held steady by something, and that the threads were that something. Apparently, this is not the case, and the threads are just there to hold the valve cap on. Ce la Vie. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ From ???@??? Sun Jun 16 17:43:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.52] [207.172.4.52]) by mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20020616213653.UZNV7355.mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:36:53 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17JhhZ-00017B-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:36:53 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07085; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA30703 for cozy_builders-list; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:37:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30697 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:34:20 -0400 Received: from InfinityAerospace.com ([64.171.119.0]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXT00367IEFC7@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for cozy_builders@canard.com; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:28:14 -0700 From: "James D. Newman" Subject: COZY: Re: Tire valves To: "Canards - 'R' - Us" Message-id: <3D0D02EE.AD821F7D@InfinityAerospace.com> Organization: INFINITY Aerospace ( http://www.InfinityAerospace.com ) MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020604002128.00add1e0@pop.rcn.com> Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "James D. Newman" Hi Marc, Wayne, Al, Eric and All, Sorry I hadn't got back to you sooner. Been REAL busy getting ready to ship 60 more sets of Retractable Main Landing Gear to Cozy MK-IV (mostly), AeroCanard, SQ 2000 and Long-EZ builders this summer -- hundreds more are forthcoming. And, Stick Grip sales are WAY up. Also, getting ready for Oshkosh, have someone [yes, I know -- finally :-) ] working on my Throttle Handle & Quadrant design, have other new Stick Grips coming out, more Stick Grip accessories are available on my site (I just updated my web site), designing and mfg. more gear for other companies (including for large govt. aerospace companies), will finish oleo nose strut design and go into production after Main Gear delivered, and we have an investor for my aircraft production (stay tuned). So again, sorry for my tardiness. > Marc Zeitlin wrote: > Getting close here - if I'm lucky I'll start the engine next week. At any > rate, I've got a question about tire inflation valves. I understand the > pressure I'm supposed to use in the tires (50 psi in the mains, 70 psi in > the nose), . . . 50 PSI for the mains is correct -- it's written on the side of the tire, and reference Landing Gear Design for Light Aircraft page 54 for the 5.00 x 5 / 6 ply tire. 70 PSI for the 8" Vari-EZE / Long-EZ, and for the 10" Cozy MK-IV / AeroCanard / SQ 2000 Nose Tires ***IS*** correct -- reference Landing Gear Design for Light Aircraft page 55 for the 2.80 /2.50-4 / 4 ply 8" diameter Nose Tire for the Vari-EZE / Long-EZ, and the 10 x 3.5-4 / 4 ply Nose Tire for the Cozy MK-IV / AeroCanard / SQ 2000. > . . . but all three valve stems seem fishy to me. They're threaded, but all > three stems stick out past the threaded portion, so that if you try to thread > a nut down on them, the nut just ends up spinning on the inner portion of the > valve, and doesn't tighten on anything. Putting the nut INSIDE the rim > wouldn't work (with another on the outside) as there's no thread inside the > rim to thread it on. I re-verified with Michelin, and what the guys have told you is correct. No need to use a nut at the base of the 5.00 x 5 tube stem. This stem is also used in other tubes and wheel combinations where the tube is tied via a nut to the wheel. > I put a small spacer on the valve and tightened the nut just past finger > tight (with some locktite on it, so it can't come off) just to ensure that > the valve doesn't wave around in the breeze, but something doesn't seem > right. If anyone has any input, I'd be happy to hear it. You can if you want to. And see above. > Jim N. - I purchased these tires/tubes/wheels from you back in the dim, > dark past, when dinosaurs still roamed the streets of Massachusetts > here. If you have any input, I'd particularly like to hear it. LOL Yes, I remember -- hundreds have [EVERYONE (ALL canards) should -- see my past posts on the subject]. In fact, 70+% of all Sport Aircraft use Matco wheels and brakes. See above :-) . > Wayne Hicks wrote: > Yeah, and could you include your thoughts on the shelf life of the > tubes -- i.e., if I bought the tubes in 1999 and won't fly until 2003, are > they still good to use? Yeap. I re-verified this with Michelin, too, just as long the tires and tubes have not been out in the sun (ozone/UV) all this time. Michelin has protectants in and on the tire to protect it from the sun, too. Michelin said they have tires and tubes that are over 15 years old that are just fine. > Al Wick wrote: > You might want to double check that 70psi in nose. I think that is well > above spec for tube and tire. I use 40 psi nose. See above! > Eric Westland wrote: > A couple of other thoughts - It is good practice to coat the tubes with tire talcum powder before inflating them. Then, keep them inflated so the tire does not get the chance to spin on the wheel while landing - the tire will move, but the tube is constrained by the valve stem which of course is not a good thing. Michelin said you could use Baby Powder, too. Infinity's Forever ( http://www.InfinityAerospace.com ), JD EAA Technical Counselor EAA Flight Advisor Test Pilot SOTW, OJAAT Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:51:54 -0500 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Re brake lines Colby Farmer wrote: >Brake line integrity is a real safety issue........ The whole discussion of what to use for brake lines is an interesting one. I chose to use the stock system as described in the plans - nylaflow everywhere. I did wrap black electrical tape around any exposed tubing to protect it from UV, but other than that, nothing. There's not a lot of compliance in the lines - they're pretty stiff, even under very hard braking, and they'd be dead simple to replace if necessary (and it's pretty cheap stuff, too). Now, on the other hand, I went nuts on the oil/fuel lines behind the firewall - I used SS braided teflon hose with integral silicone firesleeve everywhere - I've probably got $600 worth of fluid lines back there. They'll last about 300 years, and I'll never have to replace them, and they're fireproof. I don't think there's necessarily a "right" answer here in either case - I could have spent $10 on regular oil and fuel lines, like in a car, put firesleeve around them, and then replaced the whole kit and kaboodle (lines, not firesleeve) each year during the conditional inspection. It would cost me $10/year, I'd KNOW I had new fluid lines, and they'd be fine (and cheap). I could also have gone with the SS braided teflon brake lines, and it would have cost 10X as much as the nylaflow, but I'd know that I'd never have to replace them. I think that as long as your preflights are good, and you do a good job at the conditional inspections of checking EVERYTHING, and replacing anything that even remotely resembles marginal, it's a wash from a safety standpoint. Most V.E.'s and L.E.'s flying are using nylaflow, and I rarely if ever hear of the lines failing - brakes fade or gears melt a lot more often. I've heard of fuel lines failing, but only when they've gotten old. So, either use expensive stuff that doesn't have to be replaced much, or use cheap stuff and replace it often - the safety is equivalent, I believe. My $0.02. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ http://www.cozybuilders.org/ Copyright (c) 2002