From: willav@att.net Subject: COZY: Vortilons Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:57:53 +0000 I have a couple of questions: 1) Does anyone have any good "tricks" for holding the vortilons in place at exactly the right angle while laying up the flanges? 2) How many plies should the vortilons be? I guess it doesn't matter too much as long as they don't blow around in the breeze, but I was curious to know if this was specified anywhere, maybe for the Mk IV? I've searched the older newsletters and found nothing about this, only that the flanges should be 2 ply BID! Thanks as always for any advice, Will From ???@??? Sun Nov 18 18:11:45 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54] [207.172.4.54]) by mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20011117221122.TWQF25525.mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:11:22 -0500 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 165DgH-0000rB-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:11:21 -0500 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03541; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:11:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA19044 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:23:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.62]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19038 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:20:48 -0500 Received: from 216-164-247-125.s2347.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com ([216.164.247.125] helo=zeitlin-1.rcn.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 165Dch-0004qQ-00 for cozy_builders@canard.com; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:07:40 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20011117151417.00a50d10@pop.rcn.com> X-Sender: marc.zeitlin@pop.rcn.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:22:19 -0500 To: Cozy Builders Mailing List From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Vortilons Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Will asks; >1) Does anyone have any good "tricks" for holding the >vortilons in place at exactly the right angle while >laying up the flanges? Good question. I taped saran wrap over the leading edge, covered it with packing tape (for easy peel-off) and then and taped the template and vortilon in place on one side. I used electrical tape over the top edge of the flange and vortilon, as well as down at the base. I then laid up the 2 BID flange, let it cure, and then laid up the flange on the other side. Involved, but it worked. Be real careful pulling off the tape on the first side so as not to deform the underlying packing tape and/or saran wrap, or else you'll get some small waves in the flange. Ask me how I know :-). >2) How many plies should the vortilons be? I don't remember seeing a specification for it, so I used 4 BID. I've seen some vortilons that looked like 2 or maybe 3 ply, and they looked pretty wimpy to me (IMNSHO). Anyway, 4 is pretty stiff, especially with the 2 BID flanges at the bottom. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ From ???@??? Sun Nov 18 18:12:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54] [207.172.4.54]) by mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP id <20011118022712.XEIJ25525.mta02.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net>; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:27:12 -0500 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 165Hfs-0000C9-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:27:12 -0500 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25958; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:27:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21358 for cozy_builders-list; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:39:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from out003pub.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21352 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:36:38 -0500 Received: from garbonzo (evrtwa1-ar1-188-093.evrtwa1.dsl.gtei.net [4.41.188.93]) by out003pub.verizon.net with SMTP ; id fAI2IZt29851 Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:18:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Eric Westland" To: , Subject: RE: COZY: Vortilons Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:23:11 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20011117195754.KFMZ5495.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Eric Westland" > I have a couple of questions: > 1) Does anyone have any good "tricks" for holding the > vortilons in place at exactly the right angle while > laying up the flanges? I made them individually and then cut them to shape. I then masked off the wing and did some oversize layups for the flanges. Before I removed the flanges, I stuck the vortillons on with super glue and just held them in place for a couple of minutes. If I got it wrong, I just snapped them off and tried again. Once in place, I wiped a flox fillet in the corners, then when everything cured, removed and painted. I then stuck them back on with RTV. _______________________________________ Eric Westland Cozy Mark IV N325PD http://home1.gte.net/res08ahw/index.htm From: "Paul Stowitts" Subject: RE: COZY: Vortilons Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:53:35 -0800 Will, I made a template from two pieces of wood. The first was cut so that when held against the leading edge one side would be in line with the placement of the vortilons. I attached a second piece that dropped down below the leading edge to give me a larger mating surface. I taped the areas (for release) with two pieces of 2" plastic tape and then attached each vortilon with a few dabs of hot glue while holding the template in place. I then did the BID lay-ups while making sure the vortilons were properly aligned for curing. After cure I popped them off and trimmed the BID edges. This worked great for me. BTW, I used the practice flat lay-up that is in chapter 3. The plans say to save it as you will use it later (but it never says where). Hope that helps. Paul Stowitts Cozy Mark IV N166PT > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com > [mailto:owner-cozy_builders@canard.com]On Behalf Of willav@att.net > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:58 AM > To: cozy_builders@canard.com > Subject: COZY: Vortilons > > > I have a couple of questions: > 1) Does anyone have any good "tricks" for holding the > vortilons in place at exactly the right angle while > laying up the flanges? > 2) How many plies should the vortilons be? I guess it > doesn't matter too much as long as they don't blow > around in the breeze, but I was curious to know if this > was specified anywhere, maybe for the Mk IV? I've > searched the older newsletters and found nothing about > this, only that the flanges should be 2 ply BID! > > Thanks as always for any advice, > > Will > From: nostromo56@home.com Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:59:45 -0800 Subject: Re: COZY: Vortilons willav@att.net wrote: > I have a couple of questions: > 1) Does anyone have any good "tricks" for holding the > vortilons in place at exactly the right angle while > laying up the flanges? Use instant glue......... > > 2) How many plies should the vortilons be? Lay up 2 BID on a flat surface with peel ply on BOTH sides. Meanwhile, put some duct tape on your wings where the vortalons will go. instant glue the basic shape of the vortalon onto the wing. Lay up two more Bid (each side) let dry. Pop off, grind off everything you don't need, and paint. reattach with RTV. Vance Atkinson > I guess it > doesn't matter too much as long as they don't blow > around in the breeze, but I was curious to know if this > was specified anywhere, maybe for the Mk IV? I've > searched the older newsletters and found nothing about > this, only that the flanges should be 2 ply BID! > > Thanks as always for any advice, > > Will