Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:01:04 -0500 From: "Bob Hassel" Subject: COZY: Alternative Engines Along with the Franklin alternative there is now also the Jabiru, 180-200 hp 8 cylinder, low profile, $14k engine. http://www.jabiru.net.au/engines/8cyl.html Bob Hassel From: "John Slade" Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Subaru details Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:09:52 -0400 >You have provided a greater benefit to this particular branch of mankind >than I can ever describe. I may not use Subaru power, but your pioneering is >renewing my faith in the better aspects of human nature. Well said. I agree, Al. Thanks for all the info you've been providing. Please keep up the commentary. >I think I'll seriously look into rotary... As some may be aware, I'm heading in this direction. Today I spent 6 hours pouring over one of the cleanest engine installations I've ever seen, Lycoming or otherwise. Greg Richter's turbo 13B Cozy III is a sight to behold. I plan to duplicate it as closely as possible. I'm in the process of writing up the details I gleaned and posting them to my web site. Isn't it nice to have such people to follow! Regards, John Slade (Hindmost) Cozy IV #757 http://kgarden.com/cozy PS - For those going to OSH - I understand Greg's plane will be at booth # 40 showing off his EFIS system, which I didn't get a chance to see yet, but is documented, along with the engine, in his web site www.bluemtn.com/greg/aircraft.html I highly recommend a close look at this plane if you get a chance. From: alwick@juno.com Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:48:33 -0700 Subject: COZY: Subaru details Nat asked for some further details privately, but I thought I might as well share with the group. I'll try to provide objective answers. > It would also be interesting to know how much your Subaru engine installation cost Subaru 2.5 liter engine cost: $2500. Same engine now would be around $2k (more available). I also got a bunch of stuff included with engine that saved me nickel and dime expenses. I have a list of those items so others can make sure they are included with engine. I would guess those items could have increased cost $1k. > (including radiators Radiator cost is pretty amusing. I didn't know which direction to go, so I bought a used rad for $50 to allow testing of engine. Then later I bought another for $50 because it looked like it would fit the cowl envelop. Never used it. Finally I decided to have custom rad that didn't require the airflow to take any bends or turns($400). Finally it's getting near flight time and I didn't like the idea of using rad that theoretically had marginal surface area. So I found a way to accommodate a larger rad($300). But even that didn't cut it, as I made a slight measure error and elected to mod the latest rad to eliminate all risk of trapped air($60). So a biased person would say "it costs $860 for a radiator". But anyone following me need only spend $300 to get custom one proven to work from Macs-radiator.com. Btw, one of my design goals was to have my plane be totally stock in appearance. But I finally made a 1 inch mod to lower cowl to accommodate my last radiator. I'm now trying to decide to leave the cowl modified or return it to stock. The 1" mod wasn't really necessary. >and PSRU ) Psru (speed reduction unit) is a 1.85:1 Ross. It cost $2700. I would not recommend anyone to buy such a unit. Unit is fine, other reasons to not buy. I have already disassembled and inspected it after 38 hours. It's good. >how much your total project cost My total project came in around $20-22k. I have it all documented, just haven't looked it up recently. This is unusually inexpensive. Particularly when you see what my "glass cockpit" actually does. I saved a lot by making most of the Brock parts myself. I had access to cnc mills, lathes. My prop is homemade (loveit!) for $120. >how long your engine installation took to install and debug I always expected the original install to take a lot of extra time. I was totally shocked at how fast it was. I suspect it went considerably faster than normal lyc install! How could this be? It's like the wiring harness and engine were made for the airplane. Even the dipstick and oil fill are in the right area for the normal oil door. I had to shorten very few wires. On the lyc you have to wire each component. I didn't. I just plugged them into the engine computer. Zim zam. Also, I have no baffles to make.....well almost none. But also keep in mind, that I have experience in designing things like the engine mount. However, when it comes to debug time, that's where the hours started to accumulate. Particularly if you realize how conservative my testing is. I had 38 hours on engine before first flight. So how does is sum up? Probably it took 25% longer than the average lyc. How long for the next person that uses this engine in canard? Way faster I'm sure. Particularly considering that all the details are available free. They don't have to reinvent the install. I have my total build hours, but haven't tried to separate out the engine time. Don't think I could. > how you fared on your final inspection Final inspection was a joke. I could have passed with a 2x4 mounted with glue to a bicycle. As long as I had $200......and paperwork. >whether you have been able to obtain hull insurance. I don't have my C150 insured. Don't believe in it. Never looked into it. If Cozy was lyc powered, I would not be insured. But in all fairness, I would expect some difficulty compared to lyc. I just don't know. > what you think the market value of your airplane might be All I can do is guess. But I'd expect it to be less than Cozy with lycoming. Let's see. If I remove the $6k engine goodies I invested then you have stock Cozy with glass panel. Add lyc and you have "normal value". The difference is $6k I invested( except the psru and engine have a decent resale value). > inexperienced engine people, and low time pilots reading all your postings. Since this Subaru engine is virtually stock as it came out of the car, it makes for a very reproducible outcome. That's one of the reasons I went that direction. It's the custom work that we do to an engine or aircraft that really increases the risk. There is NO WAY my engine is flight proven yet. I consider it still in the very high risk area. However, all the info I have so far looks promising. Extremely quiet, no carb ice risk, much improved descent control (shorter strips), auto mixture control, .60 to .80 cents a gallon less expensive, unlimited front seat weight with 1145 empty weight. PROMISING doesn't mean jack though until many hours are completed. I expect problems. They will happen. This is a high risk application. It will definitely be lower risk for the next person, as I've used totally stock components that can be easily duplicated. Anyone is welcome to a ride, you just have to wait until I'm well past the 78 hour test period. Wait til you don't hear it!!! Local RV guy said it sounds like a car taking off. He couldn't believe it. -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U now flying. 46 hours on engine/airframe On Wed, 23 May 2001 19:18:02 -0500 "Nat Puffer" writes: > Al, > It would also be interesting to know how much your Subaru engine > installation cost (including radiators and SRU ), how much your total > project cost, how long your engine installation took to install and debug, > how you fared on your final inspection, and whether you have been able to > obtain hull insurance. It would also be interesting to know what you think > the market value of your airplane might be, to see whether this would be > something others should consider. We have a lot of first time builders, > inexperienced engine people, and low time pilots reading all your > postings. > Regards, > Nat > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.