From: nostromo56@home.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:38:08 -0800 Subject: COZY: razor paint stripping Ok......... you guys who want to know about removing paint from EZ type planes using a razor blade, it works! My wife and I stripped our Cozy of the topcoat paint (leaving the primer underneath) using single edged razors and a 75 cent hardware store holder. We went through about 100 blades doing the entire airplane. You cannot do sharper curves with the blades like leading edges, landing gear and most of the entire upper and lower cowls were sanded. We did and entire wing (and winglet) in about 4 hours (flying surfaces included). The paint we stripped off, was enamel, I don't know how this would work with some of the tougher urethane paints. Our paint was also coming off in the air anyway. As some of our flights flew through moderate to heavy rain, one winglet eventually had 30% of its paint gone after one particular encounter and that's when we decided to repaint. If you have ever used a sanding plane you will know a particular angle of the blade held in the hand will produce a nice long curly cue of wood. That angle is about 45 degrees. If the angle is too steep, the forward motion of your hand will produce a 'dig in' , whereby you will instantly stop. If the angle is too shallow, the blade will skip across the surface doing not much of anything. The secret is to get the right angle....... and its not hard with a little experimenting. We would start on one side of the wing root and make a continious pass down to the winglet, if I kept the angle correct and the pressure correct, I made that pass in one single stroke ! You can also go from leading edge to trailing edge. Yes, you will get some 'digs' every once and a while. These are very small and are easily repaired after all the aircraft is stripped. The tight rounded corners can be stripped in this manor, but are more tedious to do, and a much smaller area is stripped per stroke. The above method works well if you have a straight plane and no waves in the surface. If your craft is wavy you might as well block sand the finish because you will need to fill in the low areas anyway so you might as well use the old paint to do that. Call me or email me if you need further explanation or I can provide an email pic of the proper holding of the blade and its holder. Vance Atkinson Tech Counselor From: FLYCOZY@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 07:27:53 EST Subject: COZY: Re; Painting a EZ Subj: Re; Painting a EZ Date: 2/6/01 7:39:24 PM Pacific Standard Time From: FLYCOZY To: cozy_builders@canard.com Builders; I recenty had the opportunity to strip and repaint a long EZ that has been in service since 1982 and has over 1600 flight hours on it. The owner flew it in to the Waterloo Airport in October last year. I'd like to share a few notes and maybe help sombody save some time, money a weight. When I recieved the airplane last October the owner flew it to the airport where I live, just to clarify that it was in flying condition and was in good working order just that the owner said he always parked in the back row at the flyins cause he was ashamed of the way it looked. I put on new wheel pants by Claus, baggage pods interior paint job and sight guages just to name a few add ons The problems were that the paint was lifting and cracking in many places. I could hardly wait to find out why? I disassembled the plane and took it to my shop about 2 miles from the airport. I started with the wings. Using a DA sander and 36 grit I carefuly sanded the paint off. the builder not the owner had painted with Imron and I could tell by how hard the paint was. As I would sand through the paint and get to the fill I found out why the paint was peeling off in spots" especially bad it high stress areas like under the canard next to the fuselage". The culprit was lacqure base glazing coumpound and body putty. It seems as the red glazing coumpound sometimes blue in color seems to absorb moisture, it was also used to spot fill areas up to 6 in size thus causing a bubbles and lifting over time. As I sanded and all the paint fell to the floor " and on everything else I own "I got down to the strurture. I was impressed!!! After 18 years the structural integrity of the plane was as good as the day it was buillt. Hurray for RAE epoxy!!!... Hurray for good basic building technics. One might want to consider this when thinking of hard shelling and vacume bagging. Which I think is a waist of time unless your using molds. Anyway, lesson one Don't use anything on your airplane if it doesn't have a hardner in it. I like Evercoat to fill pin holes and small scratches if the builder of this plane had used that instead the paint wouldn't have peeled off. After all the paint was removed a week later we started the recontouring. I used the West System cause I know it won't come off. I covered the application using a underlayment trowell in a previous posting and we did the same on this project. After the West system was on and the plane all reshaped I squeeged a coat of west over all the surfaces I call this sloppy slurry mixed like Elmers glue it fills all the pin holes and scratches left from the 36 grit and 80 grit I used in the conturing of the West system. This puts a shell on the surfaces. I like to make the surface wet with the west and micro mixture and then squeegee as much off as I can wiping the squeegee each time with a paper towel also prevents making ridges. Some times it takes more than one coat. When thats dry usually to days, Sand off the ridges with 80 grit and your off to start priming. I'm a believer in PPG products K 38 high build primer is a great choice. Two wet coats 45 to 50 psi at he gun and block by hand with 180 or 220 in your DA. Now blow off all the dust or better yet wash with water and go over the surface with a good light and look for imperfections you won't have to look far. circle them with a pencil. Now remember that Evercoat....its a ultra smooth primer filler you can paint right over it. Mix up small batches on pieces of cardboard and with a small spreader press it hard into those scratches and pits you missed. block with 180 Another 2 wet coats coats of primer and block with 320 and your ready for paint well almost. PPG makes a little brother to the K 38 high build primer its called K 36 This is a sealer primer mixed 2 parts primer 2 parts color 2 parts reducer and 1 part hardner . It goes on wet and you paint over it wet. You have 15 to 45 minutes to get the top coat on after you shoot the K 36. Whats great about it is that you mix the color with the primer sealer. This gives beter coverage and less chance for primer bleed through, cause your bird is now the color its goint to be on the outside. This primer really flows and fill sand scratches that you missed and its the color of the plane so you don't have to put so much paint on to hide anything. I believe you'll use less paint to cover and thus have a lighter plane. I mentioned before I don't believe it vacume bagging. If you use a blow drier to do layups and take out excess epoxy thats good enough. The real weight gainers in this filling process is the primer. This stuff is heavy thats why it fills so much, one or two extra passes with the primer gun and you lost all you gained with so much effort vacume bagging. So, after the K36 primer sealer you have 15 to 45 minutes to put on the top coat. I used Concept 2000 acrylic urathane paint color 91045 white. I was a little bit worried I would have a hard time seeing where I had painted since it was still wet, but the top coat is really shiny and it was EZ to see where I had been. I use a Sharpy sipon gun just make sure its clean. Most paint stores will soak and overhaul a paint gun for around 35 bucks and might be a good idea after your done priming if you plan to use the same gun for painting. I would recommend a large air compressor. 5 hp minimum 80 gallon tank minimum. Use a water trap in line and regulator at the gun to control pressure. I use fish eye eliminator in all the top coats I put on just as a precaution 1 oz per sprayable quart. Do not spray anything in your shop with an aerosol can 3 days prior to painting, such as cleaners or heaven forbid WD 40 or Armourall or ANYTHING with silicone in it. Fisheyes are a bodymans nighmare. So there is my two cents worth. Hope it saves you some grief. Painting is really fun its the sanding that makes it work, but its worth it.... Regards; Dennis From: "John Slade" Subject: COZY: Builder Report - Painting Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:20:04 -0400 Builders, A few builders have asked me for more details about using Zolotone & SmoothPrime... Smoothprime. Don't even THINK about using this stuff until you've read the Polyfiber booklet cover to cover. Spray or Roll Having done both I highly recommend spraying over the paint roller technique. A lot less primer is wasted because the finish is even when sprayed. When you roll it the finish is uneven and you have to "rub off the bumps" to get a smooth finish. I used a conventional (not HVLP) gravity feed gun at 50lbs. Next time I spray I'll water the stuff down a little less than the book says (5parts paint to 1 part water). The goods news is that runs sand off fairly easily. :) Sanding with 320 grit is almost fun after all the filling and sanding with micro. It took me about 4 hours to sand out the runs, insects and minor lumps and bumps. Next time I won't paint at night when the lights attract the bugs. With a few very minor exceptions the bottom of this bird is ready for final gloss. Quantity I just sprayed 3 coats on the bottom of the plane (not including wings & canard). This took 1/2 gallon. The polyfiber book says to use 6 coats, then sand. I rolled 3 coats, sanded, filled, sanded, filled [ad nauseum], then sprayed 2 coats, sanded, sprayed 1 coat, sanded. I wish I had enough paint to spray another couple of coats, but 90% of the plane doesn't need it. I figure that about 3 gallons woul d be needed to paint the entire plane. I may use four because I wasted quite a lot by priming early to see what it would cover. Technique I used a fairly wide spray and put it on just heavy enough so I could see a continuous shine. (the shine dulls off when it dries). Even then I got a few runs. Next time I'll paint in the daytime with better lighting and I'll thin the paint a little less. I'm certainly no expert with a paint gun, but this stuff is very forgiving. Coverage. My last sanding before primer was at 180 grit. This was definitely enough. No need to go smoother than this. I had a few areas, like on the edge of the gear doors, where I'd sanded into the glass a bit and created a row of pinholes. There were a few 60 grit scratches that I spotted as the primer went on. I had to give these areas an extra blast of primer, basically flooding it on with two or three passes, then the holes and unevenness disappeared. It took a while 2 finger sanding with 320 to get these areas faired in, but they came out perfect. I wouldn't recommend this technique on large areas of weave etc etc, but it works for a few minor spots. The point being that you can cover pretty much anything with Smoothprime if you put it on thick enough, but it's better (and cheaper) to get to the 98% point with micro first. Zolotone After some experimentation I got this stuff working great. Don't bother with the Zolotone mini aerosol. It's garbage. Spray a quick coat at 50 - 60 lbs. with a conventional spray gun. This gives you the base color in a flash. Now reduce spray pressure to 2 (two) pounds. Using the same standard, came with the gun, nozzle. The Zolotone kinda spatters on giving the nice two tone effect. Once this dries, spray a coat of Zolotone clear coat. The result is like a rock and looks great. Happy holidays everyone. Don't forget to take a break from building and have a burger. Next - Topgloss. Regards, John Slade, Cozy MKIV #757, progress: http://kgarden.com/cozy West Palm Beach, FL Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:01:12 -0400 From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" Subject: COZY: Poly Fiber product question Neil Clayton writes; > ... Is this now ready to paint .... As Al Wick has said, NO. >....or should the surface be mirror smooth before painting? Yes. You need to get a completely smooth surface, or else you'll have a bumpy paint job. I use 100 grit to get rid of the orange peel, then 220 grit to get it reasonably smooth, and then 320 grit to get it ready for paint. I'm sure 400 grit would be fine also. I find that I get the orange peel two ways - either the Smooth prime has been sitting a while, and thickened up (in which case I add a couple shots of water from the syringe) or else I haven't waited AT LEAST 2 hours between coats. As long as the stuff is thin enough and I wait long enough, the smooth prime will level itself and I won't get the orange peel. Even when it starts very smooth, I still sand with the 220 grit first to remove any tiny ridges or other discontinuities, before continuing to the 320 grit. >Will the paint fill in any slight valleys? Nope. -- Marc J. Zeitlin mailto:marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu http://users.rcn.com/marc.zeitlin/ From ???@??? Fri Aug 24 00:34:26 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.54]) by mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20010823234455.SSLR16164.mta04.mrf.mail.rcn.net@mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:44:55 -0400 Received: from alum.mit.edu ([18.7.21.81]) by mx05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15a49f-0004TQ-00 for marc.zeitlin@rcn.com; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:44:55 -0400 Received: from twc2.betaweb.com (majordomo@ns.betaweb.com [216.231.140.250]) by alum.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04170; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:44:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA32225 for cozy_builders-list; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:32:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: twc2.betaweb.com: majordomo set sender to owner-cozy_builders@canard.com using -f Received: from femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.40]) by twc2.betaweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32196 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:29:56 -0400 Received: from cc422360b ([24.18.11.131]) by femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010823233945.MJYK29437.femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cc422360b>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:39:45 -0700 From: "Nick Ugolini" To: Cc: Subject: RE: COZY: Re: Paint & Finish Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:46:12 -0400 Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <90557803BE79D211BE8A00805FEA34C701008EFD@PROLIANT> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-cozy_builders@canard.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Nick Ugolini" Wayne, This is a long email but it might help a bit with the paint issue. Having just painted my plane with PPG acrylic polyurethane (the DDC paint) here are a few of my thoughts…. These are based on experience and LOTS of talks with the PPG rep at the store. General: 1. Use a low pressure HVLP type sprayer… You can get by with a much smaller air compressor. 2. Don’t worry about the floor. I swept the floor and then took my gas powered leaf blower to “get the dust out” Wetting the floor is just needless work. Instead of "how to suggestions", I will tell you my problems (and solutions)… >>Paint dusting on the surface (over spray) You need good ventilation. DO NOT make a tent in you shop and paint the plane in it. Paint it outside as NAT suggests… or…. I painted mine in my shop with large garage doors open at each end, plastic on the side walls to protect my equipment (a tunnel of love). In a tent, the over spray dust will settle on the plane without good cross ventilation (been there) and mess up another part of the surface. Make sure you move all cars a good distance away from the spraying. >>MICRO-POP This was a new one on me. This problem is more evident more on hot days then when painting at cooler times of the year. Apparently, after you paint the surface of the paint dries and seals itself. The volatiles below the surface still need to get out. They will POP through the outer paint and cause tiny pimples on the paint (looks just like paint over spray dust). My beautiful work (just after painting) looked terrible a few hours later (I had to polish everything out). CURE: after an hour or so and the paint is tack free, run some fans over the surface to keep the air moving (keeps the reducer volatiles from puddling near the surface thus causing weak areas which allows the micro pop to occur). Crazy but it works… >>Orange peel My first wing had terrible orange peel (I had to work hard to buff it out) 1. Use the CORRECT reducer. Painting in the summer with high temps in S.C. I needed to use the 95 F+ reducer (first wing was with the 85-95 f reducer). It will make the paint lay out before the surface hardens (else you get the peel). 3. You need LOTS of air to finely atomize the paint. If you are getting peel, then there is not enough air (and or reducer) for the paint. YOU MUST take the regulator OFF at the spray gun (good for all guns) if yours is so equipped (most guns are shipped that way) It will restrict the air. Even on the most expensive guns made, the salesman told me the factory recommends removal of the regulator. Mine had the regulator AND a 1/8" restrictor. Yanked them both off... 4. Use the largest fitting available at Home Depot on your air line (I used the 3/8” instead of the standard 1/4” type) or take ALL the quick disconnects out of the line. Use only the regulator at the air compressors with the LARGEST fittings possible downstream of the regulator. Remember with an HVLP you need LOTS of volume. I reduce my painting air pressure from 55 psi to 20 psi and increased my airflow just by doing that. ***for me just the removal of the regulator (and the orifice) and the larger fitting made a TREMENDOUS improvement in my painting product. BEAUTIFUL! >>Running of the paint 1. Wait the recommended time between coats. Slightly longer in cooler temps, shorter in higher temps. It will let the base coat flash off and actually suck the reducer from the top coat therefore reduce the possibly of running. The first couple of coats should be very light without worry about coverage. You are trying to build up a tacky base. When you are ready for your final coat, let the base get really dry THEN paint an extra wet top coat. The base will suck up the reducers and you’ll get the wet look with less chance of running. 2. DON’T use the PPG sealer method (putting on a colored primer coat then immediately painting with the cover coat). I find the primer has a higher tendency to run. Then when you polish the surface you will sand down into the primer run. Paint the prime on, inspect it closely then use the finish coat. >>Polishing. After you have painted the plane, inspect it for problems. If you find them (bugs, dust, etc) you can easily wet sand them out with 1500 grit. Then use 3M micro polish, after which I use the 3M Finest (polish). I used a 1500 rpm pneumatic angle type polisher. ***TIME YOUR POLISHING. For the best results, pick a certain area to polish, then look at your watch and polish the area for a set length of time. I used 2 min/ 6 sq ft. If you don’t do that you will tend to quickly go over an area without really buffing it out. Put a little extra paint on the highly rounded areas of the plane and on the surface edges (like the trailing edges) When you polish the plane, you will tend to concentrate the buffing on these areas, and will quickly wear through the paint to the primer. >>Water in the compressed air When you are painting continuously (or just using air equipment continuously) the heat of compression does not have a chance to drop to the due point to condense the moisture out of the air in the holding tank before it hits the expansion point (your air tool or the spray tip) . It gets technical with dew points and temps and the such…. Bottom line.. your tool starts to drip water, or your spray gun spits water. Boy that pissed me off…!!! I designed a refrigerant type air dry for $40 to take care of it. Basically, you just take 50 ft of 3/8” copper tubing at the outlet of the air compressor coil it up and put it in a bucket of water. (you can also put ice in it to reduce the dew point), I used a old 5 gal sheet rock mud bucket and put a cheap plastic moisture separator (home depot) right after the cooler, then the hose to the spray gun downstream of the separator. You will be shocked at the amount of water which will drop out…. Try this… hook up a hose to your air compressor, put your spray gun on it and tape the handle open and let it run for 15 min. You will deplete the air in the tank. Then feel the discharge piping. It will be really hot. You have gone from cooling and condensing the moisture in your tank (intermittent use of the air) to cooling and condensing the moisture in your tool. That hot air contains LOTS of moisture (high temp, high dew point) which will condense when it expands (cools). If you put a cooler at the compressor discharge, you cool the air and condense the water before it gets to your equipment and causes problems. Compressor-> regulator-> Coil of tubing in a bucket of water-> Separator-> Hose (no fittings)-> sprayer (no regulator) >>Closing thoughts, Personally, I will not be using the single step painting method again. Too much chance of messing up. I will do ALL my future painting using the base coat clear coat. Reasons: you can paint the primer, then inspect…. Paint the color coat then inspect AND easily repair any problems or runs. Only after you are really happy with your work, you lastly seal all the paint up with the clear coat to get the gloss. For me, the key is inspectablity and repair between coats and most importantly IT IS ALL THE SAME PAINT. Single step has base/clear combined and the base/clear coat method has the components separated out. Wow!! that was a long one. Painting is fun and easy after you learn a few tricks. I hope this helps every one out... Nick Ugolini LongEZ N29TM Charleston, SC www.EZnoselift.com Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:06:48 -0400 From: Carl Denk Subject: Re: COZY: Re: Paint & Finish >>MICRO-POP Three possibles here: 1: Some epoxy paints require a time, one industrial coating required 45 minutes after mixing before applying, for thinners to flash off. When the thinner vapor bubbles pop through, a fish eye type crater results. Had the inside floor of a 750,000 gallon elevated water tank that had to be repainted a year later. 2: Water and oils in the air hose from previous use (inflating tires or blowing off dust, without proper filtration. Also contaminated surface before painting. 3: pinholes in the fiberglass surface. These usually are slight depressions with a pinhle in the middle. Sanding leaves the original glossy epoxy surface. Surface tension of the top coat will pull back from the glossy surface leaving a pinhole or fish eye. >>Orange peel 1. Use the CORRECT reducer. -- Always follow manufacturer's directions exactly!! 2: Most of these modern coatings are dustfree fairly quickly, or other words, what you see 6" after the spray was there, is what you have. Not the days of Dupont Dulux, 30 years ago, it would flow out for half an hour. Put enough on to flow out starting 3rd coat. 1st coat 50% coverage (mist), 2nd coat covers, then start pouring on paint. Wait till can touch without leaving on finger tip when touching. Apparently the earlier coats absorb some of the reducer quickly, and reduces tendency to run. 3. YOU MUST take the regulator OFF at the spray gun - - Put a gauge right and pressure control right at the gun, (don't know about HLVP) stick to manufacturer (gun's) pressure recommendation. Also note that different materials may require different tips, nozzles, needles, etc. 4. Use the largest fitting available - Follow standard practice depending on air requirements of gun, and of course the compressor must be adequate. My compressor is good for 5 scfm. When I bought a good gun, Binks had one the fit the requirement. I would have liked a higher volume gun, but didn't want to replace the compressor, which I can plug into any 120v outlet. >>Running of the paint 1. Wait the recommended time between coats.AGREE!! 2. DON’T use the PPG sealer method (putting on a colored primer coat then immediately painting with the cover coat). I find the primer has a higher tendency to run. Then when you polish the surface you will sand down into the primer run. Paint the prime on, inspect it closely then use the finish coat. >>Polishing. I used a 1500 rpm pneumatic angle type polisher. I also have an DA air sander, with wool and foam buffing pads. Use it only in oscillating mode. Hard to wear thru coating. >>Water in the compressed air I designed a refrigerant type air dry -- Neat idea! >>Closing thoughts, still possible to mess up the clear coat, and another time to get dirt on the finish. Deltron and Concept are easily touched up in the one coat process. Haven't tried to touch up clear coat situation, but would seem more difficult. Primer: Two different uses. 1: one is to fill defects (like sanding scratches) in fiberglass, with a sandable material. Should be a 2 part (epoxy) material, definately not a lacquer base. Doesn't have to be same manufacturer as top coat. Can be applied months or years before starting top coat process. 2: Actually they may call this a sealer or primer, but immediately before (within say 8 hours or so) the top coat is applied. Deltron specified an thinned out epoxy primer. Serves as a 2 way (to the below material and to the top coat) bond (adhesion) enhancer. This must be applied at the right time, and follow immediately with the top coat! This material may also serve as a actual sealer to prevent color and porous areas from coming through to the surface. Here again follow the manufacturer's directions and materials exactly. Ditzler (and others) have excellent directions available for each family of materials. Your paint supplier should be volunteering these, and you should have these with you for reference.